SR540Beaver

I think many folks don't understand facebook. Can it be abused? Sure, anything in life can be. If you are unfamilar with it and don't want to open an account to see what it is all about, have a friend who is on facebook show you. There are security settings where anyone can view your profile all the way down to only people you allow being able to see it. Unlike zanga and myspace, I've not seen a single dirty picture or any vulgarity on facebook. It is a way for friends to stay connected. My friends on facebook are scouts, scouters, family, old school friends, old church friends, coworkers and friends of my son. Out of 120+ friends, there are probably 4 or 5 that I talk with on a consistent basis. I set up a "group" for the church I went to from birth to 30 years of age. The church closed a couple of years ago, was torn down and is now a used car lot. While I left the church 20 years ago, I am now reconnecting with many of my old friends from there that are scattered in churches all over the city. Again, you can only see or be seen by being allowed by a friend. Anyone who has you as a friend can see who all of your friends are and any postings you post. It is a safer place than some of the other places like myspace. That being said, a parent should always monitor their children's activity online.

kittle, Thanks for the additional input. I'm sure you will make the decision that works best for you. My advice for what it is worth (it and 10 cents will get you a cup of coffee) is to do the resource camp now and WB later. The boys need you more than you need WB. WB will roll around again soon enough.

Tokala, I understand what you are saying. In 2005, we had 4 troops alotted and could only fill 3 and ended up giving one back. For 2010, we had 3 troops alotted and was worried that we were only going to get 2 filled. The participant cost had gone from $1900 in 2005 to $3000 for 2010. The council gambled and paid the $4000 for the third troop. To date, we only have 10 slots left to fill between all 3 troops.

Kudu, How did either of your posts have any relevance to kittle's original post concerning whether to go to WB or resource camp at his son's request?

Yes kittle, the volume Kudu mentions is an excellent resource for a Scoutmaster if that is the training you are seeking. You need to be aware however that Wood Badge is not Scoutmaster or Patrol training. Wood Badge is leadership training for any volunteer or professional involved in scouting in any position in any BSA program. It teaches leadership skills within a troop/patrol setting, but is not geared specifically towards training Scoutmasters to run a troop. Occasionally you will run across folks who have difficulty wrapping their head around what it really is.

The other scouter in our troop found out this morning that he too will be keeping his job.

kittle, I've staffed two WB courses and will be staffing a third next year. That being said, WB isn't for everyone. That being said, I've never known anyone who attended that was sorry they did. Keep in mind that WB course frequency vary by council. Some large councils like Circle Ten in Texas will hold three courses this year. My council always does two courses per year. We have neighboring councils that are smaller that have not held a course in a couple of years because they just don't have the population to support it. So, one consideration if you are wanting to attend WB is how many opportunities you have to attend. If the council only holds one every two years, you might want to go. If they hold two per year, you can go whenever you want. WB is a good training course. Will it make you a better scouter? Yes, but you don't have to have it to be a good scouter. It just helps give you more tools than you already have to do the job you are already doing. The decision is yours as to where you need to be and when. I wouldn't give anything for the shared scouting experiences I've had with my son. But then again, he has done things like Philmont and Northern Tier without me and has great memories just as I've staffed things like WB without him and have great memories. We've hiked the scouting trail together and at times the trail has forked and we have gone our own ways. If you go to WB, you won't regret it. If there is advantage to going with your son to the other places mentioned, you won't regret it either. BTW, what is "resource camp"? That is not a term we use around here.

I'm a facebook user with 110 friends. 25 of those friends are scouts and 25 are scouters. A few others are scout related like spouses of scouters. Heck, some of the scouters is our DE, one of our camp directors, one of our camp rangers, the council program director and packaddle and Scouter Terry from here. Those of you who indicated you are facebook'ers will be getting a PM from me. Some of the kids I include as scouts are actually aged out now. I find that they are the ones who have begun to use more colorful langauge, but it is the more "socially accepted" words and not vulgarities. Being friends with them on facebook does give you a better glimpse into their life. Myspace is somewhere I don't go very often. My son goes there on occasion, but not frequently. He was allowed to set a profile up a few years ago as long as I had the password. More than one of his school friends (not scouts) liked to use some pretty vulgar language in cooments they would post. I checked almost daily and when I saw them, I zapped them or made him zap them. He got really good at policing his page. I have a nephew whose page I found and it was flat disgusting. But then, his mom is half cracked and has let her little angel express himself however he desired since he was a toddler. Bringing it to her attention would have met with a response of "so". My suggestion is like the others here. If it is your kid, supervise their online activity and handle it. If it is someone else's kid and you know their parent well enough to approach them about it, do so. If it is one of your scouts, a discussion with them is in order.

To a large degree, that is true......at least in urban areas. I grew up in Oklahoma City and was in Cubs back in the mid 60's. Our Pack met at our school and all the members were from our school. We wore our uniforms on Den meeting day because we walked to one of our classmate's house where his mother was the Den Mother. Move that forward to Boy Scouts during the same time period and pretty much you wnet to school and/or church with the kids you grew up with in your neighborhood and they made up the boys in your Troop. Fast forward to 2009 in Oklahoma City and it just isn't the same. Seeking out the "best" opportunities in schools, church, sports, scouting, etc. and driving 20 or 30 miles across town is the norm. Heck, when I was a kid it was a special treat to get a McDonald's burger once or twice a year. Now folks think nothing of driving 20 or 30 miles several times a week to eat dinner in a restaurant. Those changes in society do indeed have a drastic effect on the patrol method. All that being said, my soon is in his 5th year in the troop. He has had plenty of time to get to know the boys in the troop and his patrol. Eventually, the buddies find each other and the pecking order gets established. It just isn't as easy or natural as it once was. The exception to that is smaller towns where everyone already knows each other. In that case, the more traditional way is still the norm.

Mafaking, I hear you. We have a troop literally just around the corner from us within easy walking distance, but we drive 25 miles one way to get to our troop.

It is only on a very rare occasion that we will combine patrols and when we do, it never turns out well. So, we absolutely resist the temptation at all costs. My tend to run our patrols with a membership of 10 to 12, because on any given campout, we might have 2 to 4 who don't attnd for various reasons. By keeping the member number high, we are fairly assured that we will have a decent sized patrol on any given campout.....without "needing" to combine. That being said, my son was in a patrol at one time that lost a few members and/or had guys who were fair weather campers. On more than one occasion, he was part of a 2 to 3 man patrol. They actually enjoyed it more that way. We have troop provided tents and the bos sleep 2 to 3 to a tent. When the patrol was that small, they had one tent to set up and usually one pot to wash. My suggestion is to resist combining patrols as it destroys the patrol method. If you find yourself doing this too often, then you need to combine patrols on a permanent basis. In other words, restructure. Go with a little bigger patrol size to allow for a workable size on outings when you have some not attending.

Tokala, Wow!!! The council can fudge the qualifications for adults to some degree. One of my ASM buddies from my home troop is an SM for one of our three contingent troops. But he is well known in the district and council as a can do guy. He has much experience in a troop of 60 boys and runs our NSP of typically 15 to 20 boys. He also Campmasters at one of our properites, has staffed a couple of WB courses and is Program Director of our District Day Camp along with a host of other things. They had no issue making him an SM even though he does not hold the position as the "requirements" state. As to having so few boys having paid no more than $100, I find that amazing. Your council has to make several payments to national at certain dates along the way and the first of those has passed. Unless your council is flush with excess cash, the regular payments by the boys is what makes up those payments. Our boys are current right now if they have $615 of the $3000 paid. Monthly payments are $170. We are having to contact those who are behind as the council did have to spend money they couldn't really afford to make their payment to national. The majority are current, but we have some who are sitting at their initial $100 down payment. Unfortunately, many of those who are behind are the same folks not taking advantage of the fundraising opportunities we are providing.

Just got word that one of the two scouters in our troop that works at the same place is keeping his job......for now. Still waiting to hear on the other one and the two fellow non-troop scouters who work with them.

I have four scouter buddies who all work for the same company. Today is the day the company is laying off thousands around the nation and they are waiting to hear their fate. Two of these guys are scouters in my home troop and they are sending their sons to Jambo. That could change depending on whether or not they still have a job. Another scouter in our troop is a programmer and he is looking for a job. My wife makes a little more than me, so she is the "major" bread winner in the house. Her national company has been having waves of lay offs, but she has dodged the bullet so far. I hope that continues as both my son and I are going to Jambo and he is also going to Philmont in 2010. Jambo and Philmont combined will set us back at least $8000. I would have loved to send him to NOAC, but it just isn't possible. I'm an ASM for one of our Jambo troops and we had a meeting last night. One of the topics of discussion was the number of kids who are behind on payments. The really frustrating thing is that we are going out of our way to come up with fundraising opportunities and there are a good number who are not availing themselves of the opportunities.

Shortridge, It goes like this: Captain: Are you ready kids? Kids: Aye-aye Captain. Captain: I can't hear you... Kids: Aye-Aye Captain!! Captain: Oh! Who lives in a pineapple under the sea? Kids: SpongeBob SquarePants! Captain: Absorbent and yellow and porous is he! Kids: SpongeBob SquarePants! Captain: If nautical nonsense be something you wish... Kids: SpongeBob SquarePants! Captain: Then drop on the deck and flop like a fish! Kids: SpongeBob SquarePants! Captain: Ready? EveryBody: SpongeBob SquarePants! SpongeBob SquarePants! SpongeBob SquarePants! Captain: SpongeBob.... SquarePants! Haha.

I have recently purchased a new uniform and absolutely love it!!! The cotton blend fabric for both the shirt and pants are far superior over the old fabrics. Ditto for the fit. My one concern is the flag on the sleeve and the "Boy Scouts of America" over the pocket that seems to be some sort of plastic silk screen thing. They are going to fade, get scratched up and eventually flake off. I can't believe that using an actual patch and embrodiery would have increased the price enough to preclude them. One of the debates going on right now among the Jambo committee and leadership is what will be required for Jambo and whether a combination will be permitted within our council.

Well, after saying that I passed on throwing my hat in the leadership ring due to cost.....they got me anyway. One of the selected ASM's had to back out and I got asked if I would be willing to go in his place. I took two weeks to think it over and finally agreed. So now I have to come up with $6000 instead of just the $3000 for my son to go. My son will be 17 in 2010 and this will be our second Jamboree. He will however be in a different troop than me this time. I think that will be good for both of us. I attend my first Jambo leadershhip team meeting tomorrow. The last report I heard was that we are within 4 boys per troop having our 3 troops filled.

Funny until you come to the realization that Kudu never passes up an opportunity to denegrate the BSA, the current program or Wood Badge even in threads where those things are not the main topic.

Kudu, either contribute something useful to the topic at hand or take your hate of the current program elsewhere please. There was absolutely nothing constructive in your comments. ----------------------------------------------------- Last summer our council overbooked a session of Cub Resident Camp. They put out a call for help. I took three days of vacation to come help in the dining hall so the dining hall youth staff could assist in the program areas. We had so many campers and adults that we had to run double shifts for each meal. Now, I sit at a desk all day in air conditioned comfort and I had not worked like that since I was a much younger man. I'm 51 and have a few more pounds than I need. I was up at 5:30 and in the kitchen by 6:00. Other than about an hour and a half in the middle of the day where I went and collapsed into my bunk, I was there until 8:30 PM each evening. It was a real eye opener to me as to what kind of work the kitchen staff has to go thru. I will say that we did have some WOOD BADGE trained leaders who "got it" and they themselves along with their boys would stay behind after meals and help get the dining hall cleaned up in the 15 minutes we had between shifts. I now don't go to any event where the dining hall is being used without offering my services. Not because I enjoy it, but because I know how hard it is and that they can use the assistance.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Being a member of facebook, I must admit that I have been less than thrilled by the language of a few of our older scouts. Most of the ones throwing in an occasional colorful word are the guys who have aged out and are in college. They are facebook friends with some of the younger guys who are still in the troop. We do have one young man (Eagle) who aged out who was our SPL and a JASM during his time in the troop. He is still registered and will most likely go to the 2010 Jamboree as an 18-21 year old 3rd ASM for one of our contingent troops. I do know that the SM for that Jambo troop (who is also from our home troop) is planning on talking to him about his language online since he is/will be an example to the boys. It is inappropriate. Some of the other guys dance on the line by using "eff" or "effing" in place of the F-word.

Why are adults along? Someone had to transport the boys and gear where they were going. For may of these adults, it is "in for a penny, in for a pound". That being said, they could have split up once they got there.

I got the card earlier in the week and the candy today to give to her when I get home today......because I will be Campmastering this weekend. With the boss's permission!

Looking at the 2010 Jambo Map at AP Hill, there are 21 subcamps grouped in 6 areas. Subcamps 1 thru 5 are for the NE Region. Subcamps 6 thru 9 are for the Western Region. Subcamps 10 thru 14 are for the Central Region. Subcamps 15 thru 20 are for the Southern Region. My coulcil is part of the Southern Region and we are in subcamp 21, so I'm hoping that the 15 thru 20 is a typo on the map. Even though 1 thru 5 are for the NE Region, only subcamps 1, 2 and 3 are together. Subcamps 4 and 5 butt up against subcamps 6, 7 and 8 of the Western Region. Sounds confusing typed out. You'd have to see the map to understand. The main reason I bring all this up is that I have also looked at a map of Goshen and it appears that the various camps that make up Goshen could easily be turned into the different areas for the subcamps so they are spread out in a cirlce surrounding a lake like the current Jambo layout at AP Hill. Goshen Map http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/openrosters/DocDownload.asp?orgkey=1933&id=32900 AP Hill Map http://www.scouters.us/jamboree/2010info/Map.pdf

Buffalo, I'm not so sure that it isn't going to be a one-in-all facility. Goshen Scout Reservation is made up of 6 scout camps. They have a high adventure camp that offers 4, 7 and 10 day treks. http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.asp?LinkKey=16562&orgkey=1933 Lenhok'sin High Adventure base is Goshen Scout Reservations nationally accredited high adventure program. The program offers older Scouts (age 13 and above), Venturers, Explorers and their adult leaders exciting high adventure opportunities they will enjoy and remember forever. The staff at Lenhoksin will work with you to custom design a trek based on your Crews interests. Lenhok'sin is a trail camp and you will have the opportunity to hike the 4,000+ acres of Goshen Scout Reservation as well as some of the 35,000 acres of surrounding state wildlife game lands. There are over 50 miles of trails which will give your crew a true mountaintop experience.

Dan, As to WB, ask him his course number and what council. Regardless of how long ago it was, he will readily remember. Finding out from a council if that course number was one of their's is easy enough. As to OA, are you a member? If so, you should be aware of some ways to determine if he was ever a member. Nuff said there. As to Eagle, ask him about his project and see how long it takes to answer. All that being said, I'm not sure what the best approach is to telling someone that you think they are lying.