shortridge

I don't see a problem with requiring CPR proficiency demonstration for each badge. It may be four years from the time a Scout earned First Aid to the time he earns Lifesaving. And he might take Canoeing but never set foot in a rowboat. The more opportunities for proper training in such a critical lifesaving skill, the better. Eagle92: Maybe I'm misunderstanding this... you're saying that someone can be a Wilderness First Aid Instructor under the American Red Cross without having first taken a straight Wilderness First Aid course? Is that right?

Now that's lifetime bragging rights - especially the "from memory" part!

I haven't bought Trail's End in quite a while, and haven't seen a current product list this year. The cheapest item online is $25 - a military product donation. The most expensive is $49.95 - a bag of wasabi soy almonds - with a line touting that $35.26 goes back to "local Scouting." I fail to see how this makes sense. If I wanted wasabi soy almonds (and I don't!), I could get a similar product for under $10 in my local grocery store and donate $40 directly to my local unit or council. We'd both win. P.S. Yes, you're a softy. That's a good thing. :-)(This message has been edited by shortridge)

geekster, Your best course of action is to ask a fellow Arrowman in your troop or chapter. Many lodges have Web sites - visit there and get the contact info for your chapter or lodge leaders. They can best help you - both in terms of providing correct information and getting you a copy of the handbook - a lot better than a bunch of people online can.

Often all it takes is that gentle question that John suggested. In teaching scoutcraft badges for five years, the partials that I most often saw were Scouts who couldn't get the hang of splices or missed the Wilderness Survival overnight for some reason. Those can be intimidating things to do "on your own," especially as a younger Scout, and sometimes it really does take a bit of prodding to get them moving.

I've also never understood the interest in patch collecting. It's certainly not an OA thing, though various lodges do to encourage it with the plethora of special flaps and backpatches for various events that are clearly designed for trade and sale - they seem wholly unecessary to me. My old lodge had five different patch combos for NOAC - one with a Founders theme, and the other four with superhero motifs that struck me as kind of goofy. I don't think I'd wear them or buy them even if I had attended. (Why is Iron Man or the Hulk the best representative of the ideals of the Order?) I would also observe that not all the "NOAC 2009"-labeled patches on eBay are from this year's event. Some have those words in the name but were issued for other events, such as Jambo. I know plenty of OA members who might idly browse through a patch auction before it starts to check if there's anything really interesting, but disperse for ice cream sodas or a good game of Risk or Monopoly before turning in for the night. In addition, very few youth members in my acquaintance come with money in quantities to do serious bidding. It's the adults who give the "giant patch club" idea its legs. I have a very small number of patches that have significance to me. My old lodge flap, for one. The summer camp patches from my years there. My first troop numerals and patrol leader badge, still sewn to my first shirt and tucked up somewhere in my mother's attic. My Arrow of Light badge and knot. Beyond that? They're just patches. I also second Eamonn. The OA (and camp staff) kept me in Scouting when I got bored.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Open-ended: What won't the bowline do? (Originally phrased as "What will the bowline not do," which was very confusing.) According to the Scout Law, "A Scout is Hungry." True or false? To build a campfire, you must first have: (a) matches (b) water or dirt to extinguish the flames © a metal campfire ring The square knot is also known as (a) the friendship knot (b) the reef knot © the thief knot To treat a snakebite: (a) tie a torniquet (b) cut into the bite and suck the blood out with your mouth © use a commercial suction device to suck the blood out (d) get the patient to a hospital as soon as possible(This message has been edited by shortridge)

I see this as a good/bad situation for summer camp operations, depending on the makeup of the committee. Good: It could provide the summer shooting sports director with a resource board to bounce ideas off of, so he or she isn't coming in blind and having to re-invent the wheel every summer. Bad: It could provide ignorant, misinformed and untrained shooting sports enthusiasts with second-guessing authority over a National Camping School-certified summer camp shooting sports director who is on the ground at least 24/6.

Once you turn 21, consider volunteering for a district committee position. You might be able to contribute to the camping and activities committee, for example, given your recent experience on the other side of the fence. You could also serve on your troop committee. I agree with sherminator - your education comes first. I went to college eight hours away from my lodge and troop, and basically dropped out of Scouting for 10 years. There's always time later to get involved again.

First, *everyone* knows that Capture the Flag is best played at oh-dark-hundred on a Saturday night, not Sunday morning! :-) Secondly, I think Hal's advice is dead-on - shift to a backpacking focus so that Scouts are out on the trail and a decent hike away from the cars on Saturday night. That'll either keep the Scout and the hoverdad with the rest of the group, or away from your outings altogether. It's almost always far better to address a problem through program rather than making policies. Rules just pile on top of rules until you've got a whole big thick rulebook and very little fun. Have you observed to the father the impact this has on the morale of the rest of the troop? I mean, why should they stick around if nothing fun's going on, either? Taking that a step further, why should they wash dishes or clean their tents or clean the latrine? That's not fun, so why should I have to do it? If the father can't recognize the damage this is doing, he probably shouldn't be on the committee.

Some more discussion of the topic here: http://tinyurl.com/5fj2rg This really comes down to the concept of "fair use" - look for it to head through the courts. In my opinion, the AP's proposal as I understand it is asinine. And that's coming from a professional journalist.

C'mon. That's not going to happen. It would put girls 3.5 years behind boys on the Eagle trail - 10.5 years old as the start for boys and 14 as the start for girls. Why not just open up the entire Boy Scouting program to girls? Such a halfway measure makes absolutely no sense. I concur with John. Source, please?

If a Patrol Leader says "Hey, Johnny, I still need that money from you for dues" during a lull in a patrol meeting, that's simple communication. Nothing wrong with that. If the SPL or Troop Scribe gets up in front of everyone at the opening or close and reads a list of names of people who haven't paid and the amounts they still owe, without having first approached them privately or semi-privately and given them more than one opportunity to pay, that strikes me as asinine. Public humiliation has no place in Scouting - especially when it involves money in this economy. Talk to the Scout first and find out if there's a problem. Maybe his mom just got laid off and the money he makes from his part-time job at the grocery store now has to go to pay the rent. I hope no one's going to embarass the kid who just wants to hang out with his buddies, But hazing? I don't think so. Just poor judgment.

Does anyone know if this is actually a change in procedure, or just a revamped disclosure form to reflect what they've been doing for some time?

"Eagle Courts of Honor, Appellate Division" sounds like the name of another Law & Order spinoff. Paging Dick Wolf...

One would have thought any obstacles with the site itself would have been fully identified during the selection process. Sounds like something very recent came up.

Putting my history major hat on... a unit Historian doesn't have to just be relegated to assembling binders and files and collections of memorabilia. Just a few ideas off the top of my head: - He can present programs on outstanding Scouts of years past ("Where Are They Now?"), locally and nationally; - do a demonstration on old-time Scouting skills, using as source material handbooks and fieldbooks from past and present (especially neat with the new HB out!); - put together a slideshow on troop history for Courts of Honor and the like; - write a biography of Baden-Powell and other Scouting founders for the troop newsletter on the occasion of the centennial; - conduct oral history interviews with senior Scouts and older Scouters, preserving memories and stories that would othewise be long-lost; - contribute copies of photos to the local camp's history archives about that week in 1972 from the Curlew Patrol's victory in the cooking contest; - assemble a history wall displaying camping equipment and uniforms used back in the day; - organize a troop patch collection from camporees, summer camp, Philmont trips, etc.; - write a history of the troop's favorite camping location, that little island owned by the farmer who was really friendly to us ... really, it goes on and on. Anything that can connect the past to the present should be under the Historian's bailiwick.

momma_bee, Like some others here, I'd suggest that there's a difference - and a significant one - between a volunteer position and a job. When your son took the staff position, he agreed to follow certain rules, just like in any other job. ** When you're dealing with volunteers, such as your Roundtable/Maundy Thursday example, your chief goal is to schedule the meeting when the most people can attend, to accomodate them in their other obligations. When you're dealing with people who are receiving a paycheck, the job comes first. ** As a side note, you said your son didn't receive a contract defining until he arrived at staff training. Even if the detailed contracts aren't ready until the last minute - and that's bad practice, IMMHO - the staff should have received some sort of communication from the camp director or program director outlining basic expectations. Uniforming, bunking, what to bring, arrival dates, anti-drug policies, basic schedules - all that should be disseminated and known well in advance. That shouldn't be left until the last minute. I recall getting all that in the mail at least a month before the start of staff week, along with a copy of the contract that I was expected to review, sign and return.

Haven't seen it yet, but a reorganization by skill rather than T-2-1 is much-needed! It doesn't belong under Scoutcraft, but tying a tie is a very useful skill... one might even say a survival skill on job interviews in this economy! I was at one point the only man in sight backstage at my daughter's dance recital earlier this year, and got shanghaied into performing that task for a young man in the show. Only thing is, I had to tie the darn thing on myself, pull it off (intact) and put it on him, because I couldn't tie it on him directly. My hands could only remember how to tie it around my own neck.

You say he's fine at speaking with the SM in a conference, presumably 1-on-1. How does he do in front of a group of his peers - say, leading the Oath or Law, or teaching a skill? Some people have a real tough time with "public speaking," even if it's in front of a small group of people they already know, to the point of near-nervous breakdowns. I'd suggest having another SM conference - not a formal thing, just a friendly chat - and have the SM gently broach the subject of what the Scout feels at the BORs. Maybe there's something going on that he'll tell the SM and not the other adults about?

Regardless of feeling leery about talking with him, you really have to if you want to make your concerns known and to continue in the troop. The fact that you're seeking advice indicates you see them as serious issues. Ignoring them isn't going to make them go away. There's no magic bullet to solving unit leadership problems. You can go talk with your CC, COR, UC, etc., but the first step should always be to try to talk it out with the person involved. Anything else and the SM will likely feel blindsided.

____ ______ Camping Experience?

Backpacking certainly doesn't have to be expensive. I subscribe to Backpacker, but the trend over the years toward gear porn has put me off a bit - it can get quite ridiculous. You can sew your own pack (a great experience), rig up a bedroll, buy an oversize Army surplus softpack for $40, get an old external pack frame and hitch your stuff to it... there are plenty of options out there for introducing Scouts to the sport. I did a LNT trainer course a short time ago, with people from varying backgrounds. There were brand-new spankin' packs from REI, older external frame packs and oversize day packs with stuff lashed to the outside. One fellow used one of those olive-drab military duffels with shoulder straps. He survived. There was a Backpacker article I read close to 10 years ago now - the title was something like "Modern Man vs. Mad Dog," and really broke down the differences betwen the "techno-packers" and the thrift-shop folks. It showed just how simple backpacking can be if you resist the temptation of the gear companies. Still good reading today. Personally, I'd like to combine Camping and Backpacking. Separating them makes car camping-style expeditions the default, and backpacking some ethereal, higher form of outdoor adventure.

Spiney Norman, Thanks for the insight. Two things, though... "While this is true, most primitive areas within the state parks here in the Prarie State are behind the gates of the state park. They do impose a quiet time curfew as well." These still aren't things that prohibit a Patrol from camping, any more than they prevent a troop from camping. If a park allows camping, it has to have a way to get an ambulance or emergency vehicles past the gates after-hours - that's just common sense. A troop would have the same problem as a patrol. And a "quiet time curfew" shouldn't affect anyone. A patrol should follow the park regulations just like a troop would. The issue of required adult supervision is indeed an obstacle, and an unfortunate one, IMHO. I would wager, though, that if your unit has a good relationship with local land managers, and they were convinced of the patrol's maturity and skills, that they'd wink at this. Private land isn't the only other option, either - your local scout reservation would be a perfect place. The troop could attend as a group, if needed for the local council's OK, and then the patrols could split up and do their own thing until Sunday morning.

Very interesting - I gather from the responses (or relative lack thereof - maybe I should have titled the thread "Campmaster Uniforms" or "Campmaster Wood Badge" ;-) ) that such programs aren't as widespread as I thought. In my neck of the woods, campmasters are volunteer Scouters who join a 4-5 member crew of other volunteers year-round at our two reservations. They basically run the camp during the weekend, giving the resident camp director some time off. They do orientation, tours if requested, run the trading post, check items out of the commissary, hold Friday night leaders' meetings, check units and out of their sites, and run a Saturday program if requested. (Each crew has its own specialty and advertises the program topic in advance ... things such as dutch oven cooking, knots, Totin' chip, even Railroading).