shortridge

And further responding to xlpanel ... You're right in that elections shouldn't be the sole activity of a chapter. But struggling chapters sometimes do have to focus on elections to get new members active once it's clear the old members aren't going to come back. Sometimes you do need fresh blood.

Eagle92 hits it on the head. Too often we in Scouting get caught in the trap of weekly or monthly meetings with no purpose. They turn into boring sit-around sessions, and everyone loses interest. Just like every troop meeting should be aimed at the goal of getting outdoors, each chapter meeting should be aimed at a greater goal. Want to have fun? Do a chapter ski trip. Want to encourage leadership? Run an event at the district camporee. Want to perform service? Build something at the council camp, or do a big camping promotions push. A chapter can do anything that a lodge or unit can do. It's just a different scale and way of thinking.

This is a stupid question ... but does the Institutional Head/Chartered Organization Head have to be a registered member of the BSA? Or just the COR? I'm not seeing a position code on the adult application ... don't know if it's covered by the recharter process or something.

My local council recently included this item in its e-mail newsletter. Does anyone have experience with this group or its work? Doesn't sound like an Eagle project to me (with a how-to "packet" provided by the group), but what do I know? HIGH VISIBILITY LEADERSHIP PROJECT FOR BA 100th ANNIVERSARY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Honor The Birth Of Freedom and Celebrate the Boy Scouts 100th Anniversary... With A Liberty Tree Memorial In Your Town A Liberty Tree Memorial is the perfect way to honor and continue the heritage of the Birth of Freedom in our country. Your towns Memorial can become a place of celebration, a focus of community pride and engender a sense of common heritage and respect for Liberty and Freedom. Honor and continue the tradition of the Sons of Liberty in your own town with a Liberty Tree Memorial. The sponsorship of a Liberty Tree Memorial is an ideal Eagle Project project for the Boy Scouts who are celebrating the 100th Anniversary of their founding. Community-based funding and eager participation of a diverse group of citizens assures a successful Liberty Tree Memorial which everybody can rally around. HOW TO ORGANIZE A MEMORIAL IN YOUR TOWN Elm Research Institute will obtain a letter of agreement from the town wishing to establish a Liberty Tree Memorial. Upon receipt of the agreement from the town, ERI will ask a local Boy Scout troop to sponsor the Liberty Tree Memorial ERI will send a complete Memorial packet - which includes fund raising ideas, sample press releases, how to organize the ceremony, Liberty Elm planting instructions, etc. After fund raising is complete, Scout troop will send a check payable to ERI to insure timely shipment of all Liberty Tree Memorial items. During the Planting Day Ceremony a local dignitary, such as the mayor, will host the event, dedicate the tree and Liberty Tree Memorial plaque and read aloud Thomas Paines poem, Liberty Tree. Most important, he will also dedicate the Donors Plaque commemorating the 100th Anniversary of the founding of the Boy Scouts and identifying the troop as Sponsor and thanking them for establishing the new landmark in their town. Call Today ! Elm Research Institute 1-800-367-3567 for a FREE full-color brochure or visit www.elmresearch.org for more details

Very interesting question. Got me thinking. 1. Patrol Leader patch - the Rattlesnakes of Troop 383. My first and most difficult job as a Boy Scout. 2. Wilderness Survival MB patch. My summer camp merit badge class did our overnight at the most remote outpost on the reservation, got miserably lost on the way there, had a great campfire and told stories. Then we stayed up all night in our shelters listening to the mosquitoes buzzing in our ears. It was fantastic. 3. Summer camp patch from 1994, my first year on staff as a lowly CIT. It was the beginning of five incredible years that I wouldn't trade for anything. I'll throw in a No. 4... not a patch, but close enough ... My Den Chief Service Award cord. I was DC for two dens, totaling about five years altogether. It taught me so much about working with younger kids, and the joy of seeing them grow and learn.

Yeah, you don't need anything fancy. Try taking the ceremony the troop uses for youth officers and riffing off of that.

Echoing Eagle92, I've known a lot of "older guy" teachers who work summers at camp. (I worked with one teacher/COPE director who worked 9-6 - he lived at his home nearby.) I've also known people who run construction-type businesses who come on board as maintenance staffers when things get slow (like now!). And I've also known folks laid off in the spring who find a good nest at camp - 2-3 months of breathing room over the summer where they can pick up some solid management experience. (Two months as a camp aquatics director, working 15-hour days and supervising a 15-member staff, is a great resume item for a year-round job at a YMCA pool, for example.) Personally, I'd like to see a couple of professional trainers in each council - probably not full-time gigs, but simply more people offering advanced training on some of the more challenging specialty skill areas, such as BSA Lifeguard, WFA, LNT Master Educators, etc.

BadenP wrote: the way SM presents this training it would be the same training as they receive at camp school which would make them qualified to be certified life guards/ aquatic supervisors which I don't buy National would want on a volunteer level. NCS is a week-long program, from sunup to sundown and beyond. There's no way that a summer camp could run a similar or equivalent training regimen for unit leaders without pulling them away from their units for the entire time they're there. What sense would that make? Actually, I'd think that local councils would want as many people certified as Aquatics Instructors as they possibly could have. It'd make finding camp staff area directors a whole lot easier. SMsteve, Thanks for the clarifications. I appreciate it.

BadenP, If the case is as you described, the SE and the lodge were wrong. Plain and simple. It has nothing to do with personal prejudices - I'm probably on the far-left side of the co-ed Scouting debate, and two of my closest advisers in the OA as a youth were women, but I *know* the situation you outlined doesn't pass the smell test. The only thing the SE can approve a waiver for is the camping requirement for district or council Scouters, IIRC. If the age and rank requirements can be waived, that opens the door up to Second Class and Tenderfoot Scouts petitioning for membership. ("Why should we have to wait to earn First Class and spend all that time camping? The SE said she didn't have to wait two years to turn 21!") The guidelines are not any shade of gray, as you suggest, and it's not a ridiculous technicality, as you also assert. It's a rule that's been in place for decades, and the Supreme Chief of the Fire should darn sight know better. Membership in the Order is not the only way that a council can honor someone. What council are you in?

I don't think the handling-controlled-drugs-without-a-license-is-illegal notion is quite accurate. Following that line of thinking, many a BSA camp across the country is violating federal law if they require camp health officers to hand out meds. After all, American Red Cross First Responders and EMTs can be camp health officers - but something tells me that even EMT training doesn't qualify someone for whatever kind of dispensing license nldscout is talking about. After all, how many camps are really lucky enough to have an actual M.D. on duty, on site 24/7? Regardless of of the administering medications issue - personally, I simply would not feel comfortable providing security for a camper's medications in my tent! I've had too many experiences with sticky fingers over the years. A locked tackle box, as Twocubdad says his camp requires unit leaders to use, can be busted open with a rock. IMHO, unless you're doing something in the backcountry away from the main camp, all non-emergency medications should be in the custody of the camp health officer, under lock & key 24/7. (A mini-fridge or wooden cabinet takes more effort to break into than a tackle box.)

Can anyone explain in plain English the difference between the Aquatics Supervisor and Aquatics Instructor positions and what the training for each involves? (I'm not even sure I've gotten the titles correct...) Which one is from NCS?

I love the campaign hat - on other people. I think it looks sharp and absolutely is one of the predominant symbols of Scouting. But I can't wear it (or any other kind of hat) except during the winter. I overheat something fierce even in mild temperatures. I tried on a friend's campaign hat once and almost instantly began sweating through my clothes.

sherminator: It's that strangeness, plus my concerns about the el cheapo flag and BSA namestrip falling to pieces in the wash, that just made me order an ODL shirt. (And after all those years I moaned about the ODL... argh.) Maybe it's just that the style of the bellows pockets needs to grow on me. But until it does, the naked pockets will just look odd.

Eagle92: Re your post on the first page I had the chance to see several Scouts and Scouters in the centennial outfit today and yesterday, with various degrees of adornment on their uniforms. IMHO, the left sleeve looks odd when the only patch is the CSP such as on a camp staff member but is fine on a unit leader or Scout who has a POR patch. Ditto for rank badges and temp patches on the pockets. They look strange naked. Dont know how to describe it other than that.

Mafaking: Why shouldn't she?

Good question, Foxy Den Mom. While I'm not an attorney, it appears the BSA was granted a request for summary judgment in 2008. The only point that remained before the court was on the issue of ADA access to the Trading Post: http://classweb.gmu.edu/jkozlows/RPLR/080306b.pdf The Troop's Web site has apparently lapsed over the last two years, and the crew's now belongs to a group in Georgia.

Let's just put the yelling on hold for a second. BadenP, I'm sorry if you feel your position has been misrepresented. But I read it just as BDPT00 did. Your statement - "Why does a Chartering Rep or Committee Member even need to wear a uniform anyway, because he can? Most that do it is for ego boosting since they have no direct contact with the boys anyway, but it really is plain silly." - I certainly read that as meaning that you believed that some people indeed shouldn't wear the uniform, making "direct contact" a requirement for wearing it. What did you mean to say?

BadenP, Question. If you have to have direct contact with youth in order to wear the uniform and not be called "silly," then why do staffers at National wear it? Or district committee members? Or DEs? Or the SE? Or UCs? Or members or chairs of various council committees? I'd love to meet a COR or unit committee member who wears the uniform. It shows that he or she is involved enough to care, and has some pride about his or her involvement and service.

RememberSchiff: The guidelines chart indeed states that. It is also in direct conflict with the text of the aquatic safety section, which states: For Cub Scouts: Canoeing, kayaking, rowing, and rafting for Cub Scouts (including Webelos Scouts) are to be limited to council/district events on flat water ponds or controlled lake areas free of powerboats and sailboats. Prior to recreational canoeing and kayaking, Cub Scouts are to be instructed in basic handling skills and safety practices. I'm reading the online version.

BadenP, Like almost every bit of Scouting verbiage I've encountered, the wording in that statement is hazy. You ignore the final clause: "... in which you are functioning," which seems to conflict with the "primary registered position" element. Lodge chiefs function as a member of the council executive board. Members of a summer camp staff function as district/council staffers. All are reasonably entitled to wear silver loops, IMHO. Besides, realistically, ALL Scouting positions are temporary, especially district ones where you might have a chair turn over from year to year. A two-term lodge chief might have more time in service than a district chairman.

For really cheap rope, check with a local climbing club or center and see if they have extra climbing rope that's at the end of its useful lifespan that they'd otherwise throw away. Ask if they'd like to make a donation to Cub Scouts! :-) At my local camp, we once got two giant rope coils of surplus climbing rope, cut it into 3-4-foot sections and fused the ends. It was the perfect diameter for teaching both Cubs and younger Boy Scouts the basic knots. Just make sure no one uses the old rope for climbing purposes. Instead of dyeing the rope two different colors, a simpler solution is to wrap a few inches of colored electrical tape around the ends. A lot easier, trust me! ManyHats - "Dollar store had 100 ft. of cotton clothes line for $3." Wouldn't that make it a Three Dollar Store? (This message has been edited by shortridge)

Sad for the young boy, but good work by the Scout. He did what we all are supposed to do.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Sorry... my above comment should read "It's certainly not *ONLY* an OA thing."

Hal, When I did COPE in the early '90s, the low course was open to 12-year-olds and the high course 13+. So yes, every council seems to set a different standard. ... especially since "young Boy Scouts" and "older Boy Scouts" doesn't seem to be clearly defined anywhere.

The key phrase in hot_foot_eagle's post is "at scout camp." There actually aren't that many age restrictions in Scouting. You do have to be at least 14 to complete SCUBA BSA or BSA Lifeguard. But I find no age restrictions in G2SS on whitewater, climbing or COPE activities. (Did I look in the wrong place? Please let me know.) A parent may judge their son to be sufficiently skilled and mature enough to undertake such activities. That's fine; I certainly agree that there are plenty of younger Scouts willing & able to do just that. And there's nothing stopping your son from doing those activities on his own or with another group, and sharing them with his friends in Scouting, whetting their appetites for when they turn 14. But in that 10.5-14 age range, there are tremendous degrees of difference in physical and mental maturity. There has to be some sort of an objective cutoff - and it appears to be set by each council camp, depending on its staff and equipment. Would you like your son, experienced as he might be, doing whitewater with an 11-year-old who can't even do a proper J-stroke in a canoe? That endangers themselves or others. Or would you like the instructor to spend the entire week focusing on teaching the basics to a group of 12-year-old Scouts who have never set foot in a kayak before, effectively ignoring the advanced skills your son desires? Other non-Scouting programs have chosen to not have a cutoff. I personally think that's dangerous, unless they have huge staffs to keep a close eye on every camper. (On the other hand, I'd think that an 11-year-old Scout who's already been climbing for four years and can demonstrate his skills and back it up with letters from trainers, teachers or climbing club members just might be able to get a waiver from the camp director. Have you asked?) How about we look at it this way: What can a young Scout do? He can swim, row, canoe, kayak, sail, boardsail, snorkel, hike, backpack, bike, cook, tie, build, survive, fire a rifle, shoot an arrow, track animals, identify plants, carve, tool, weave, chop, saw and blaze a trail. And that's just for starters. With all this on offer, if Scout camp is the only place your son is getting adventure, you might want to look to a new troop. Addendum for RememberSchiff: Cub Scouts can do kayaking, canoeing, rowing and rafting, as long as they're on flatwater ponds or controlled lake areas free of powerboats and sailboats, under the aegis of council or district events. A day camp program (usually volunteer-run and -supplied) probably doesn't offer that, but I'd check with your local council resident camp.(This message has been edited by shortridge)