shortridge

The Hon. Roland Erasmus Phillips: http://www.scouting.milestones.btinternet.co.uk/roland.htm

hotair36 wrote: This sort of relates to one of the revised camping MB requirements where (I'm paraphrasing) "...on one of these outings hike and gain a minimum of 1000 ft in vertical altitude..." When you are in the Midwest and the elevation runs around 620 ft MSL for miles and miles does it count if the outing includes a trip into the city and the scouts climb up the stairs of the Willis (formerly Sears) tower. To clarify, that requirement is one of six "choose-your-own" items. A Scout must choose two. So Scouts in flatland areas (like in the Midwest, and where I live on the East Coast) aren't prohibited from earning Camping MB. (And no, the Willis tower would not count - the elevation gain has to be while on a mountain.) I am extremely confused by your comments regarding challenges to independent patrol activities. In a quick search of the Illinois DNR's Web site, I found multiple state parks with tent camping areas, with no indication that there are curfews or lockdowns after certain hours. (Do a Google search for this string - site:dnr.state.il.us primitive - to find plenty.) The "lock-in" at the spring camporee that you cited sounds more like it was due to poor planning and lack of communication with the county park staff than anything else (someone made the reservations, talked with the park staff, and didn't realize the park closed at night?). Simply because a group of adults can't get their stuff together doesn't mean a patrol should be barred from camping. You also wrote: "I can't see a patrol campout when the local PD or conservation police or forest preserve district police enforce closing times and curfews." If the patrol does its planning, reserves a campsite and checks in upon arrival - just like a troop would - no one should be kicked out. If the patrol just shows up at a park or preserve that doesn't allow camping or public access after a certain hour, yeah, they're going to get the boot, as they should. So I'm not at all sure I see your point. If it's a community curfew you speak of, where kids under a certain age aren't allowed out after a certain hour, that sounds like a great opportunity for your Scouts to get involved in some practical citizenship by lobbying to have it changed to allow them to camp. The only practical barriers to an independent patrol campout or hike are those imposed by a unit or a council. Best advice is to consult your DE or council camping professionals about the tour permit requirements if you're concerned about insurance and liability.

Just a reminder that this is a revived thread from last year (nothing wrong with that, certainly!), and that the troll OP already admitted lying about his Scouting experience.

The regatta is tons more fun than a Pinewood Derby, IMHO. It's far more kid-centric. Decorating the boats can be a blast. If you get the chance to set up a practice course, tie the Cubs' hands behind their backs. I'm serious! That way the temptation to reach out and touch the boat with their hands won't be as strong when they get to the actual event. I've seen too many kids just crushed because they got DQ'd when their boat tipped over and they instinctively reached out to right it. Have fun!

The simple answer is yes. And that includes the TRUST Award as well.

So your troop or crew is going camping for a fall, winter or spring weekend at your local scout reservation, with big plans to hike the trails, do a primitive survival overnight, paddle down the river, experiment with some new dishes. You and your SPL check in with the volunteer campmasters, and then .... what? I'm interested in hearing about experiences your units have had with campmasters, good, bad or neutral. What can a campmaster do to support your troop? What shouldn't a campmaster do? Any campmasters out there with stories to share that could help other campmasters, especially newbies?

SR540Beaver wrote: "Wood Badge NEVER was an outdoor skills training course. It has always been leadership training in a troop/patrol format since BP's first course. IOLS is skills training. It's purpose is to teach those with direct contact how to do and teach the skills needed from Tenderfoot thru First Class." And which is regarded as the pinnacle of adult leader training? In my world, it would be Advanced IOLS/GernBadge, with some NCS thrown in for good measure. Related: I think Kudu's points are quite valuable, in fact. They go to the core of a very important issue - whether skills should be taught independently of this thing we call leadership, or whether they're intertwined. That question is integral to the discussion on this thread, IMHO.

At summer camp, there's nothing preventing your troop from doing its own campsite ceremony however it likes ... nor suggesting to the program director that the Oath & Law be added to a campwide ceremony. It would indeed be impressive to see and hear an entire camp arrayed in columns, sign up, repeating the words in unison. It could make for a good solemn ending to the closing-night campfire as well. In my summer camp staff days, I worked with a lot of new Scouts in the first-year camper program, and we went over the Oath & Law many times - including rote memorization, deeper discussions of what the words and phrases mean, and how to put them into action. I'll admit that saying them at retreat never occurred to me, but it's a good idea.

I believe Scouter760 asked about call-out ceremonies (for which you should go through your local lodge to get the OK in advance), rather than inductions (which aren't allowed for out-of-council units).

Wasn't Atlas a regular advertiser in Boys' Life back in the day? Maybe that had something to do with his promotion of the organization. Celebrity spokespeople aren't going to cure what ails us from a membership point of view.

AlFansome, I really hope that flops. Talk about a completely ineffectual course... the outdoor skills appropriate for Cubs are a thousand times removed from what Boy Scout leaders need to know. The outdoors goes from being just one small portion in the Cub program to 99 percent of the Boy Scout program. Unless the idea of progression is taught precisely and properly, and reinforced over and over, we'll end up with Webelos den leaders taking their dens on wilderness survival treks and chopping wood with axes - "because the trainer said I could."

Such a program, IMHO, should emphasize not only scoutcraft skills, but the patrol method as well. I'd take Gern's concept and toss in several "patrols" of leaders, each operating independently but coming together in formal (pre-arranged) and informal (spur of the moment) interactions throughout the week - competitions, skill contests, an occasional "troop" meal, some campfires, etc.

Ahh, hills... perchance to dream... The highest spot in my county is a landfill. If we're not battling bugs on the trail, it's either raining or freezing. But I agree wholeheartedly with the no-tent sentiment!

- Leave No Trace Trainer. This will reportedly become its own POR soon. Promotes LNT techniques in the unit; partners with other trainers in the district or council; runs workshops at special events or in broader community;. Could be placed in charge of a special LNT-themed campout. - Piggybacking off SM52, try Trailmaster... in charge of trail maintenance projects wherever you go, on conjunction with the local land managers. Studies maintenance techniques and needs; trains Scouts and leaders in same; coordinates special trail projects at summer camp with camp director. Generally, whenever you have a Scout who's top-notch at a particular skill, who practices and researches that skill on his free time over and over, that Scout should be an instructor of others - whether formal or informal, it doesn't matter. Tap into their passions and let them run with it.

I didn't read anything in highcountry's post that suggested worship wasn't being supported. I Once had a porpective scout who was crossing over from Webelos II and there was a lot of concern from the parent about church and services on Sunday. I told them we were back early enough to accomodate everyone. I fail to see how that's not supporting this Scout's faith practices. A unit is under no obligation to import a member of the clergy to hold services at the campsite. Arriving home in time for each Scout to attend services seems more than sufficient to me. The DRP itself clearly states that religious life is the purview of the home and the family's religious institution, NOT the unit. Am I wrong, or misreading something? Scouting is not exclusively a religious organization. If a family's faith and values call for strict worship service attendance at a certain time every week that simply can't be accomodated by the Scouting unit despite best efforts, for whatever reason, then perhaps Scouting isn't the right forum for that youth. It's the same for kids who don't like camping, or whose parents have an objection to wearing a paramilitary-like uniform, or don't agree with another of the aims or methods. The family and Scout has to decide what's most important to them. As Gern said, it's a very complicated balancing act.

Around here, in the main summer camping season, the answer is BUGS. You have three choices: (1) Use a tent, (2) rig up mosquito netting under your tarp, or (3) don't get any sleep. Most use a tent.

I guess no one ever told these folks that a uniform is a uniform is a uniform, eh? Bizarre.

To clarify, they are banned right now in Scouting.

Too bad about the camp, but it's good that the new council will continue to serve the girls. Belmont sounds like a good site for a Cub Scout camp / conference rental location. There's even a high-ropes challenge course. http://www.tuliptrace.org/Belmont.html

If your local council has a COPE course, ask about the Meatgrinder and low wall (usually about 10 feet high). Those will build teamwork in no time. And there's the trust fall and trust lean activities, of course. Not really games, per se, but they'll definitely get Scouts rarin' to go.

An alternative would be for the PLC to create a series of Patrol-based competitions. Knots would be a good area to start with, as ideally every Scout should know the basics. Patrols could challenge each other regularly to get top honors. That would move away from an individual system, under which you usually have one or two superb tiers who enjoy showing off, a large group of fair-to-middling knotters and a handful of Scouts who hate ropework. Patrol honors would motivate the group to work together to build up everyone's skills.

Eagle92 wrote: "As for being alone, doesn't Wilderness Survival MB say you need to make a shelter and sleep alone in it?" Actually (this one got me thinking and I had to check), the requirement reads: "Improvise a natural shelter. ... Spend a night in your shelter." I'd interpret that to mean that a Scout has to build his own shelter (no teamwork, as requirements are individual things), but there's nothing barring another Scout who's not trying to complete that requirement from sleeping in the shelter with him. Just my two cents.

Around here (also in the mid-Atlantic area), bears aren't much of a problem - it's critters, mainly raccoons, who can get into your food, chew up your pack or tent and generally ruin stuff. But the net effect is generally the same - you're minus food or a crucial piece of gear.

I recently spotted an item posted on the BSA's official Facebook page: "Did you know that the BSA has a pilot program where the use of personal watercraft (jet skis) is allowed at a summer camp?" From an accompanying linked article (http://tinyurl.com/nwerh8), it looks like the Blue Ridge Mountains Council is one of the pilot sites. Anyone have experience with this so far this summer, at Claytor Lake or other sites? What's your opinion? (I've never ridden on a personal watercraft, so I'm really just curious.)

I've never heard of a DE who was in charge of an event's patches - that should be something handled by a volunteer. It sounds like this guy has bitten off a bit more than he can chew. Perhaps he's a bit ashamed to admit it - doesn't want to lose face. But as we all know, ignoring a problem doesn't mean it'll go away or that other people will forget.