shortridge

You might get better feedback if you give a little bit of background. Why are you looking to start a local group? What's the target population? Are there other Scouting or youth groups in your community? How would yours be different from other youth groups? Why are you not looking at affiliating with an existing organization? Odds are that if you start a group and then look for members, it's going to fail - or you're at least going to have a very, very difficult time of it. Far better to ask yourself why you want do do this and figure out how you can best serve the youth in your area. Unless you're in a very rural area with very few programs, you have to look at competition. There are a lot of extracurricular options for kids these days. Unless you're well known, with a good reputation in your community - you're a teacher, perhaps, or a coach - parents are probably going to pick the better-known program that has widespread support, nationally-produced materials and other resources (such as camps). It would be like starting another youth baseball program to compete with Little League, but without having any baseball fields. Not going to get much traction. If you check out the fundraising section on this forum, you can find lots of past discussions about local fundraisers, from holiday wreaths to popcorn. Once you have your organization formed, that won't be much of a problem. But if you're going out in the community asking for funds with nary a girl in your group, and not even an idea of the age group you want to serve, my bet is that you'll get a very cold shoulder. You need to be able to communicate in 30 seconds - the "elevator pitch" - why local businesses and donors should fund your group over the other options out there. And really, you don't need a lot of money anyway to do scouting-like programs. There's a lot of gear and supplies that can be recycled, re-used or made from scratch.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Perception is everything. As is understanding the difference between media commentary and news reporting. I'd wager that one would be hard-pressed to find a straight news report on the swine flu that really said "everyone was gonna die." The vast majority of news outlets were simply reporting the facts - how many people had gotten sick, how the flu spreads, what government officials and health experts were saying and predicting. That's not sensationalist, it's just the facts. On the other hand, if you just tune in to one of the cable news gabfests, where shouting heads dominate, you might be forgiven for thinking that "everyone was gonna die." But that's not reporting, it's chatter. xlpanel wrote: "A story that only has facts from one person (the first one) only reports it one way." Unfortunately, in cases such as this - let's say the summer camp hazing case being discussed in another thread - the media only HAS one set of facts. And that's the information that reporters get from the police and law enforcement authorities. That's not spin - it's just the way the world works. Yes, there are two sides to the story. But in the vast majority of criminal cases, one side is either (a) locked up behind bars and incommunicado, or (b) ordered not to talk by legal counsel. As a reporter, I would jump at the opportunity to interview the defendant in a criminal case. But we rarely get that opportunity. The Blancmange: That article was interesting. It seemed to be missing some background information - like, why is this newsworthy? Some of the comments may have shed some light on that subject - talking about cuts and the closing down of a council camp. It would seem like a reasonable question to ask why a top executive is getting more money while programs are getting less. Unfortunately, the article didn't address that.

Not knowing much about the American Heritage Girl program - is there a reason they can't do more adventure-related activities? BadenP, While I agree that point of view is out of date, I'm not so sure that it's illogical from a CO's perspective. A CO is supposed to use the Scouting program to serve families and youth and to help the organization accomplish its objectives. If its objectives include supporting only young men, or keeping young men and women apart to teach them right actions and morals, it's not illogical. In fact, it's very logical in that it adheres to the CO's own principles. "Check with your DE to see if your CO could sponsor two seperate crews at the same church, I am pretty sure the council will either say no or strongly discourage the move." I would think a DE would be gung-ho about the idea - that's two new units instead of one!

ASM, I get that message when I attempt to create a new post without selecting the forum category from the pulldown menu. It's easy to overlook.

I'd do the same, but flip it around and find youth members first. It's far easier to develop a program that appeals to a group than develop a program and then find a group it appeals to.

"The scouts want to shower." xlpanel's comment above is the most interesting bit in this thread. I'd like to meet these so-called Scouts in your troop who are so conscientious about being Clean! ;-)

Beavah - I should point out that what I liked about COPE in fact was the variety and challenge of the exercises. If I didn't like rappeling much (and I didn't - that part where you're on the edge and you lean back almost perpendicular to the tower made me freeze), I could do the Vertical Playpen. Or the Caving Ladder. Or the parallel cable traverse (which has a name, I'm sure). And Scouts who weren't quite ready for the heights could do the low-course elements, which were fun, too. There was something for everyone. I do hope I didn't come across as an old fart complaining that things aren't done the way they were Back In My Day. Far from it. I know that tastes and interests change. I just hate to see a good, useful, positive program go by the wayside.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Forgot to mention ... At the camp I described above, Henson Scout Reservation, Camp Nanticoke, near Sharptown, Md., the Cub program operates many of the traditional summer camp activities - archery, swimming, fishing, BB, Scoutcraft, nature, handicrafts, etc. - organized around annual themes. Program areas are decorated up, staff members often wear costumes and activities get a twist (for pirates, a pioneering tower at the Scoutcraft area becomes a sailing ship where they learn nautical knots, for example). There are four themes, and they change every year, so a Cub can go all the way through without running into the same theme twice.

I recently found out that my local council camp is dropping the COPE program and moving to a more climbing-oriented initiative. The two main factors involved are (a) lack of interest in COPE and (b) the high cost of maintenance on the course, which was built in the mid-'80s. More and more Scouts are just interested in climbing and rappeling, and not in the other neat stuff involved with COPE, the camp director tells me. The camp has a 50-foot tower with three functional sides - one for climbing/rappeling (Climbing MB has been offered for several years), one Vertical Playpen and one Giant's Ladder. It's going to be replaced with a multi-sided climbing/rappeling wall next summer. They're not even going to have a zipline any more. I find the news disheartening. As a Scout, I really enjoyed the COPE program, and loved the other high-course elements more than the boring ol' climbing and rappeling component. The low-course elements were great for doing basic teamwork training for troops, patrols and camp staff - and the council occasionally opened the course up to other groups. This happening in any other areas?

That's fantastic that your son is so into camping and Scouting. Great for him! It's at the farthest edge of your driving time (about 10 hours), but Henson Scout Reservation, Camp Nanticoke, offers a great Cub camping program, with 3 days, 2 nights open to Cubs and Webelos, and 6 days, 5 nights for just Webelos. It's outside of Sharptown, Md. Details: http://tinyurl.com/5cftlz I last staffed it 10+ years ago (worked there for five summers), but the camp director is a friend and the staff is as enthusiastic as ever. The Cub programs run in late July into August, and there are still plenty of spaces left this summer! (As I wrote in the other thread, the Cub program is usually overflowing, but took a major hit this year with the economy.)

My council, in the mid-Atlantic area, has run a Cub resident camp for years at one of its two council camps. The season is split - five weeks of Boy Scouts, about three for Cubs. I'm not a camping professional, but there would seem to be several challenges to a council that wanted to start a Cub resident program - space and facilities primary among them. Running a resident camp at a non-council-owned property wouldn't seem to be worth it, considering that you'd basically need to import your supplies and equipment (tents, archery supplies, rifle range gear, lifesaving equipment, etc.) to make it on par with national standards. Converting a Boy Scout camp to offer a Cub program could be difficult depending on the layout or design of the property. Boy Scouts can walk a mile or so to a program area from their campsite, no sweat. Not all Cubs have that kind of stamina, especially the younger guys. At my council, the reservation is large - about 1,400 acres - but the camp area is centrally located, with everything in easy walking distance. It's perfect for Cubs (but some kids and parents complain of the distances anyway ;-) ). The other council camp is smaller in size but campsites and areas are far more widely spread out - Cub camp wouldn't work there at all. You also have the issue of recruiting staff. Most summer camp staffers are older Scouts or college students. To them, there's not as much cachet in working with Cubs as there is working with Boy Scouts. The camp I've been talking about used to split the season so it was three weeks of Boy Scouts and five weeks of Cubs (now it's reversed). Despite that, most of the staff training focused on Boy Scout program and skills. It's a status thing... So finding young, enthusiastic staff members - the guys and gals the Cubs look up to - for work at a Cub camp will be a challenge. In this area, Cub camping has proven extremely popular, at least up until this year, when enrollment took a hit. (I'd wager more parents opted out, or went for the lower-cost, volunteer-run district day camps.) The council's long-term strategy actually calls for the creation of a "Cub World" resident camp, a stand-alone operation centrally located in the council for the sole use of Cubs. It appears on hold now due to the recession, however. We'll see how that goes - I'll be particularly interested in how staffing works out. Edited to add: The idea of a twilight camp is really interesting. How has it worked in your areas?(This message has been edited by shortridge)

A lot of the Second Class requirements are for doing things with your patrol or troop, or at camp - situations where others are present. Ask the Scout to match up the requirements he completed with the occasions on which he completed them. He should at least remember where he was to do the swim test, flag ceremony, service project, built the campfire, etc. Should be easy to check with the other people who were present then as well to see if they signed off on it.

I know folks say to get 'em at yard sales and thrift shops as well. Perhaps it's just this area, but I'm a fair hand at thrifting and yard sales, and I've never once seen a Scout uniform piece, of any size, anywhere. eBay is the only place I've snagged used uniforms.

Kudu raises an interesting point in the other thread, one that I've been turning over in my head for some time. Scouting promotes "leadership skills" as a primary objective. But is every boy really cut out to be a leader? Certainly not every man or woman is. Some people are better - and happier - as followers, or as executive officer, behind-the-scenes types. Does the same apply to boys? Should we be pushing every Scout to be a leader in some form, beyond roles as teachers or instructors of subjects or skills they're highly talented at? Should we be (some may say forcibly) rotating positions of responsibility to Scouts who may not want them or be ready for them? I'm not arguing any point of view, just genuinely interested in the feedback.

Without knowing why they left, it's hard to develop a response. The new and different always attracts people of a certain type. It may be nothing more than that - being tired of the same-old, same-old, even if the same-old is really exciting.

Dean, Thanks for the insight and perspective. One observation, though: My understanding is that HIPAA only applies to certain health care providers. So it would apply at the doctor's office and the insurance company. But it wouldn't appply to the unit-serving Scouters in between who might have handled the form, as in your example of a JASM tormenting a bed-wetting Scout. The parent or guardian turned that information over voluntarily, after all. I'm not so sure whether it would apply to a council or camp health officer. One of the qualifying questions has to do with sending certain health care-related transactions electronically. Would a council camp bill an individual for health care rendered by a health officer?

SctDad wrote: "Why does it matter how long she has been out of practice when she is filling out her sons medical form. It is a basic physical exam." The form says health care professionals must be certified and licensed. If she's not licensed, no dice. Simple enough to find out.

"I would bet that is the case in most states. So if they don't disclose little Johnnies medical problems and the kids keels over on a camping trip because he ate a peanut, who is responsible?" That's why we have the medical form to begin with. If the parent knows of a life-threatening allergy but doesn't list it in the space provided on the form, that's got to be negligence of some kind. The illegibility would be the red flag for me. If my child had serious health issues, I'd darn sure want to make sure that the leaders could read what I wrote!

If resources and facilities permit, try paper maiche to mimic mummies.

It's under "Barriers to Abuse in Scouting": "Appropriate attire. Proper clothing for activities is required. For example, skinny-dipping is not appropriate as part of Scouting."

Timing's perfect... Hike Naked Day (or Naked Hiking Day) on the Appalachian Trail was Sunday. In Scouting, it seems safest for all concerned just to avoid any possible YP-related issues and keep the clothes on. One person's skinny-dipping is another person's flashing. Personally, no thanks. That'd be a heck of an uncomfortable sunburn.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

A member of the unit committee cannot effectively serve in that role - let alone someone who is married to the unit leader. Sometimes it takes a second set of eyes to spot problems.

SMs in need of housesitting can also call on Scouts in need of some hands-on Pets MB work. And don't forget about the potential inherent in Automotive Maintenance, Gardening and Plumbing!

As scoutingagain says, rather than going with others' lists, talk to the boys. Figure out what they want to be doing in 2-3-4-5 years. Then start working on getting the "stuff" they'll need to get there. Often lost in the flurry of excitement over gear catalogues and Backpacker magazine's regular reviews (I've heard it called "gear porn" - and yes, I have often been guilty of the sin myself!) is the fact that a troop or patrol can go camping without any special gear whatsoever. Start by thinking simple. Make bedrolls from blankets at home, use daypacks or homemade frame packs using the diamond hitch, tents and tarps from black plastic from your local hardware store (or else sleep under the stars - free!), some rope or cord (also from your local hardware store), a few pots, pans and plastic eating items borrowed from home, homemade alcohol stoves or campfires in existing fire rings, and some food. Boom. You're golden, and the boys are in the outdoors having fun with a minimum of effort and expense. Both of the troops I was in as a youth were patrol-box units. We never did anything except day hiking from our main "base" - and boy, it got boring in a really short time. The only people I recall owning "real" backpacks were the adult leaders - who never really used them. They're a great way to get younger Scouts acclimated to the outdoors (or the parents who are reluctant to let them go!). But they're also a great way to keep the Scouts tethered, as Kudu says.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

evmori, I'm not slamming the Scout. I agree that people donating to a project probably aren't going to be making a donation simply because it's tax deductible. I was just pointing out why such an error would matter - because it calls other information into question. gwd, In this case, the Scout didn't get that info from his leaders. The O.P. wrote: "He did not show the letter to anyone in the troop ahead of time. However, he stated in the letter that all donations made for his Eagle Project would be tax deductible."