SeattlePioneer

I probably wouldn't qualify under the new standards ---- too much of a spare tire these days quite frankly, despite running two miles/day. On the positive side, a Troop I was in a few years ago had the Scoutmaster along on a moderate backpack trip, and he struggled mightily to do the miles to the camp site. That was probably a significant health risk for him --- in his late 40s probably and out of condition/lard butt. There is an argument FOR screening out over weight, out of condition people ----adult leaders in particular perhaps. It's probably more regrettable to screen out youth who are over weight and out of condition.

I had recently been appointed Assistant Scoutmaster in a troop. I attended a couple of outings, one of which had what appeared to be a number of young brigands attending it who weren't really in the troop. That night the restroom in the state park we were staying at was badly vandalized. A month or two later after another outing a mother told me another AS had had sex with her daughter on the outing. Frankly, I had no evidence of actual wrongdoing by anyone. But I quit and moved on to a different unit. A few months later the other AS had his Scout Membership revoked for life. Unless you are an eyewitness to wrong doing or have other physical evidence it probably takes an investigation by sopmeone with some authority to verify what actually happened.

More evidence that lawyers rule the world through the American judicial system. Although it's not quite a case of "ruling" in a positive way. Lawyers often can't stop themselves from using the heaviest legal artillery to squash whatever bug is available, especially if the bug has insurance. Is there a quiet practice of Scoutmaster deciding to do less challenging activities in order to minimize the risk of injury and being sued?

Isn't that practical solution to fill out the old forms and ignore the new ones? Like a lot of things, I imagine that would work as a strategy for years to come. Personally I ignore the on line trip permit system, which I find annoying to use. I fill out a trip permit by hand and mail it in. Never a problem.

Northern Idaho! What a SUPERB location to be running a Scout Troop! Do you need an ASM? Maybe I could move....(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

BeAScout.Org is an on line BSA recruiting tool that allows those looking for a Cub Scout Pack, Boy Scout Troop or Venturing Crew to search their area using an on line map for units which appeal to them and then make on line e-mails to those units for additional information. It's pretty slick, but units need to update their "pin" which pops up when their unit is selected. I updated my unit pin a couple of months ago, and I think I have a good one. Today I was rewarded by my first on line inquiry: "I have a 6 year old and 8 year boys I would like to get into cub scouting." That included additional information such as contact information and noted that this originated from an "on line search" So even though my council hasn't been promoting this website, it's already able to work for us if we are "prepared" with an updated pin. To sample how this works, you can go to beascout.org. for an address enter 1020 SW 128 st, burien, wa 98108 select the first unit on the list, pack 240 to view the pin. You can try any other BSA unit (such as your own) to see what your pin looks like. It's probably time to start updating those pins to take advantage of this new membership tool.

A good ceremony should mark each significant milestone in a Scouts Scouting History. What kind of ceremony might mark the revocation of an Eagle award? Perhaps we could look to the military, or at least television, for some dramatic ideas:

Would it be bad for a Scout to discover that he needed to suck up to the Curly Haired Boss --- I mean the SPL in order to win his support for something he wants?

Interesting issue and discussion. The standard in criminal law is that a person is innocent until proven guilty. If the Scout in question hasn't plead guilty or been found guilty and any appeals exhausted, that tends to argue to me that the issue should not be considered by Scouting ---it's premature. And since juvenile court records are usually kept sealed, there is probably not going to be a definitive finding available to Scouting even if he plead guilty. That suggests to me that such issues shouldn't be considered an advancement issue. I'll admit this conclusion is counter intutive to me. If the law and public authorities dictate that juvenile violations be kept sealed, are we being good citizens by inquiring into those issues? I would think that by the time a Scout gets to his Eagle Board the adults in the troop are going to have a pretty good idea of the boy's character after observing him in difficult and stressful situations on many occasions.

Sorry BadenP, I've simply never observed bad behavior by those wearing several knots that I thought was in any way related to the awards. Knots are the BSA advancement program for adults. Personally I think it's bad behavior to pointedly run down that program and promoting a contemptuous attitude towards those wearing knots ---except for your beloved Scoutmaster, of course. You seem to be exhibiting just the kind of behavior to which you object. Apparently wearing knots isn't the key to that kind of problem.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

I like the idea of a meaningful ceremony, and I'd like to hear about whatever JillKB and other packs do. Personally, I invite both the recruiter and the boy recruiter up at a Pack Meeting. The boy recruited is welcomed into the pack and the recruiter is thanked for inviting the boy. I wear a "Recruiter" strip on my uniform, and I explain that it's one of the proudest awards I have. I've often thought about giving the boys a $5 gift certificate to McDonalds so they can take themselves out for lunch as buddies.

Yes. And for those reasons my assumption and hope is that she would recognize that an effective Committee Chair would be the right thing to do, and that she would support it. That's an act of faith on my part of course. But I'd be hoping and expecting the best when you talk to the COR. I wish you good luck with that!

You have already discovered the critical importantce of a good Committee Chair. What are you doing to find a replacement for that very important person who is leaving as well? Leadership transition is really something your current Committee Chair should be helping you to plan, and helping you to identify and recruit the BEST person available to take over that position.

Personally, I'm not a big Pinewood Derby fan. I think parents get over involved and the races are commonly overproduced and get in the way of boys having fun. One thing I'm planning to do this year is set up our Pinewood Derby track the day the kits are handed out. Boys would put their names on the bottom of their car and assemble it with any help needed from parents. The boys would then organize their own races with boys in their den. I may print up Pinewood Derby certificates the boys can put their names on. The winner of each two Scout match race would get a sticker to put on their certificate so they would be a recongized "winner" of their race. I'm guessing many of the boys would have as much fun at that activity as at a more formal race --- Tiger Cubs and Wolves especially.

OK --- maybe "fine" is stretching a point. But as Oak Tree suggests (and my experience) most CORs do little or nothing. Yours is recognized by the Chatered Organization and the community and has a long history with the pack. That's a lot more than ANY COR I've had occasion to work with.

83 Eagle, Personally, I think it is worth a chance to try to get a good CC appointed. From reading your comments the only thing we really know is that you have a person who is a fine COR but who doesn't want to do the job of the CC. He's had the chance but has only given it a half hearted try before dropping it. Why NOT give him a chance to do the right thing? I'm guessing he will be glad to sign off the application in order to improve the unit. Heck --- as COR he could always reappoint himself to the position if he wishes to do so! If he were to get angry or hostile, that would be a good reason to back off and consider a plan B. But give the person a chance to do the right thing! Of course you know the person --- I do not. But that would be my bias based on the comments you have made. Having the correct committee structure is a gift to future leaders. It's worth a try in my opinion.

Why is asking the COR to sign up a new CC, work he has been invited to do and hasn't done a "battle"? No one really knows he wouldn't be glad to do that.

Interesting thread. You might find my recent thread on building an effective committee interesting: http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=301351 I'd say you have an unusually capable Chartered Organization Rep, but someone who should not be Committee Chair any longer. I'd be looking for the right person to be Committee Chair, have them fill out the adult leader application for that position and ask your COR to sign the application. You have proven that he doesn't want to carry out the duties of the CC, but you haven't given him the opportunity to sign on to filling the position with someone willing to do the job. I wouldn't underestimate the value of someone with a long term conmmitment to the program either. I'd be looking for ways to recognize that person's service to the pack. You want to keep him as COR, in my opinion. And you are, of course, perfectly correct to want an effective committee to support you as Cubmaster. The "Cubmaster Who Does Everything" is a lousy and abusive experience. So who is the BEST candidate to be CC? Talk to that person and ask them to agree to help. Have them sign the Adult application and then have a sit-down with the COR and ask him to sign the application. Why would he refuse? He gets to keep doing the things that he already does and that he is valuable doing. You aren't going to replace him in any significant way. That's what I'd try, anyway.

If I were the DE I wouldn't be impressed by dire predictions. I would offer the established Troop some suggestions on how they can recruit new Scouts from outside the Cub Scout Pack. An excellent opportunity is to recruit 5th and 6th graders in the spring so you can sell your summer hiking and camping program. So you had one family unhappy enough to leave your program to start his own, and he was persuasive enough to take the CM/SM with him? Perhaps you should have taken the complaints more seriously and looked for ways to put the enrgy of those people to work. I'd be taking a harder look at your program to decide what has motivated people to abandon it. This forum gets complaints about existing programs quite commonly, and often those program don't want to hear about them. Starting a competing unit is a method likely to be chosen only by people with a pretty keen sense of grievance. You've expressed a significant sense of entitlement to be able to recruit boys from the pack which is missplaced. In my view, troops should usually be making much more vigorous efforts to support Cub Scout packs whose boys they need or desire, but usually not much effort is made aside from scheduling an AOL ceremony to grab up the boys the Pack leadership has struggled to produce. You reap what you sow.

Nope. Not a part of the Scout program in my opinion. Something for doctors and parents.

Interesting question, and I don't have "the" answer. On the one hand, boys who earn their badge are reputed to be more likely to continue in the program. On the other hand, Cub Scouts should be about having fun, and turning advancement into "school" by doing too much of it at one time may not be good. What you suggest actually sounds attractive though, especially if leavened with some games and fun as part of the program. Another possibility might be to place the parents in charge of working their way through achievements at your open house, perhaps giving them confidence to continue the example at home with additional achievements. Also, I'd look for another parent who can help take the load off the stressed Den Leader. Every Den needs an Assistant Den Leader, and let that be a reminder to me to get another reminder off to my own Den Leaders on that!

I agree this was a missed opportunity, but let's not knock a volunteer who was asked to provide a sled on short notice and is carrying out that request. Planning is one of the skills ADULTS often need to learn in Scouting.

Buy a big plastic box or tub, bought at Target or wherever, big enough to fit a boy into. Have a family contribute an old pair of skis or buy an old pair at a thrift shop. Remove the bindings from the skis. Get a 4" x 4" by 8 foot piece of lumber at Home Depot. Buy a fifty foot length of 1/2" rope at Home Depot. Buy one dozen 2" long Phillips head wood screws and one dozen 1" long Phillips head wood screws at Home Depot. (I'm a stock holder!) Next week the Webelos cut the lumber into eight one foot sections. They glue two sections on top of one another, forming four 8" by one foot blocks. They also cut two holes through a one foot long piece of wood or plywood and use the plywood to space similar holes through the front of the plastic tub. Thread the rope through the hole in the tub, through the plywood block (which re enforces the plastic), out the 2nd hole in the plywood and out the tub, leaving two ropes for the Scouts to pull on. The next week, after the glue dries, the Webelos put two of the blocks on top of each ski. They install 2" wood screws from the bottom of the skies into the blocks of wood, holding the blocks in place. (drill pilot holes for the screws with a drill). Put the plastic tub on top of the blocks. Cut four small pieces of wood or plyoood and put them inside the tub over the blocks. Run 1" wood screws through the small pieces of wood, through the plastic tub and into 4"x8"x12" blocks of wood, holding the tub onto the top of the blocks. (The small pieces of wood reinforce the plastic tub). (drill pilot holes again for the screws). Decorate with the Webelos den number, pack number or whatever! The Webelos can do this in two half hour sessions I would suppose. A saw of some kind, drill, some drill bits and a screwdriver would be needed. Now you have a sled held 8" above the skis so snow doesn't accumulate and obstruct the box, and two ropes for the Scouts to pull. Put a boy in the box and some boys in front and they'll have a great time!

Expecting the District Executive to hold that annual meeting with the Institutional Head is something I should expect him to do. He might be able to knock loose a little institutional support in terms of a COR that would represent the Pack effectively within the parish community. That would be worth a try. Thanks for that idea! I happened to recruit the Unit Commissioner for the pack, who is the Cubmaster I replaced a year ago. After six years as Cubmaster watching the pack dwindle and not being able to reverse the trend, he is occasionally attending Pack Committee meetings but mainly he's off with his son in Boy Scouts. Unit Commissioners don't grow on trees around here. And there was no Unit Commissioner while he was Cubmaster. Unfortunately, the District Commissioner's magic wand seems to be out of order. Waving it doesn't seem to produce the skilled volunteers we could sure use. Frankly, we haven't been doing well at all in recruiting district volunteers, and I'm afraid I threw something of a snit about that a couple of months ago at a district meeting. Writing complaints to the District Chair and District Commissioner doesn't produce a reply. It's all very well to say that it's someone else's job. But standing on that principle merely means the unit would have failed already. My plan is to have the unit working on it's own by the end of the year, at which time I'm outa there. I'm not sure I can make that happen, but there is a reasonable chance. Of course I said that a year ago, too! Frankly, it's been a much tougher job than I planned on.

E-Mtns, I've never heard that called the "troop method," but it's the Cub Scout Pack Method! Try calling it that and see how it goes over!