SeattlePioneer

So what means do you use to get the Bobcat requirement on Child abuse completed? Frankly, it's one I've delegated to parents, and one I think many parents find difficult to deal with. It's presented in a lousy way in the Cub Scout Handbooks in my opinion. I can get through the other seven Bobcat requirements in a couple of meetings, but then find boys waiting weeks or months before getting parents to approve it so the boy can receive his Bobcat, and some parents never approve it. One option I found at the Scout shop is a comic book that makes completing the requirement a matter of some shared story telling in a user friendly format. I've also seen a DVD at the Scout Shop that might make it possible to play at a den meeting and consider the requirement completed. I welcome any ideas on how to deal with this....

Ummm. Somehow I don't think watching the buddies you've made cross into Boy Scouts and being dropped into the Webelos I den would be real attractive to most boys. And frankly, it is the boy I'm mainly interested in rather than Scout rules. I propose this ---- those new boys collect the Bocat award, which should be done in a couple of weeks by boys that age. Then they work on whatever the Webelos II den is working on. Since most aren't going to qualify for the AOL, they obviously don't win that award. But if the Webelos II den does a formal crossover into Boy Scouts, I'd cross that boy over with the rest of the denm, and he'd remain a Webelos II until his 11th birthday. I'd make a point of reaching an agreement on that with the Scoutmaster. I would suppose that a boy would understand the need for that, and he can catch up with any rank or awards he's earned when he turns eleven. I welcome anyone who wants to explain how I'm outraging BSA rules and regulations! There might be a little bending, such as taking a Webelos camping without a parent (the parent can certainly be invited) but that kind of things happens anyway often enough, and strikes me as a venial sin for a Webelos II scout.

The one thing Kudu has proved is that the Congressional charter gives BSA the ownership of "Scouting" and the Chief Scout Executive and BSA get to decide what is to be called Scouting. Kudu actually posted a court decision pretty much to that effect. Frankly, I don't see a role for Kudu in that process, no matter how many times he posts a copy of the charter. But it certainly seems to give the Chief Scout Executive authority to set up a Soccer and Scouting program if he wants to do so. Of course, whether that is a good idea is still open to debate on the merits of the idea. But I don't see Kudu playing a key role in such a decision.

Suppose you recruit some 5th graders at your fall recruiting night. They are 2nd year Webelos and they go in your 2nd year Webelos den. So what kind of program would you ask them to complete? If the 2nd year Webelos den crosses over into Boy Scouts in February, what happens to these boys?

I took the outdoor leadership skill training. I learned something, primarily the emotional effect of good ceremonies, which I have tried to replicate since then. Secondarily, it showed the Scout method of training in groups moving from station to station which I thought was good. But it's oversold as a requirement in my opinion. And retesting is absurd. Scouting is busily testing itself out of volunteers and leaders, in my opinion. It smells of lawyers who want to have "certified" leaders to minimize losses in lawsuits.

I'm with Nike, basically. Less talk and more doing. More emphasis on outings.

Another point from Kudu which has no point.

I notice that once again Kudu resorts to his own interpretations of the Scout charter. Where are the authoritative decisions of Federal courts on this issue of what the "methods of Scouting" may be? Absent such decisions, the lanugauge Kudu quotes is just good intentions and good wishes by the Congress, rather than the straight jacket Kudu prefers. The one meaningful decision Kudu did point out was that the BSA owns the term "Scouting." That means that Kudu isn't the owner or interpreter of Scouting, but rather that it is the BSA and the Chief Scout Executive that is entitled to make authoritative pronouncements on what Scouting means and involves. Frankly, Kudu is just a Parlor Scout on this issue. He lacks any legal expertise, and has no on point court opinions to support his biases. As a practical matter, the Congressional charter delegated decisions on Scouting to the BSA, which has been making those decisions on behalf of American Scouting for a hundred years now. Those are the facts of life which Kudu doesn't want to recognize.

Actualy, I'd be delighted to hear a Roundtable program on the methods used by the unit and Scout selling the most popcorn in the district. We tend to be too isolated in units and not exposed to the best methods available to do a lot of things. Roundtable should help even out the differences between units that really have things figured out and those that don't.

I think you have the right attitude, drmbear. I especially like the idea of not being at den meetings with Cub Scouts all that often. I'd be looking at Boy Scout Troop meetings where you can hang out, do some program activities and have Scouts do some teaching of your Webelos while you get ready to go hiking or camping with the Troop on suitable activities. If you have several troops near you, that might keep you pretty busy!

Brent, Looks like you are getting a terrific start as District Commissioner, congratulations! Our council has a quarterly Council Coordinated meeeting which all district Scouters are invited to attend. There are breakout sessions for a wide variety of district officers, including one for Roundtable Commissioners. I don't know if that's a common district activity, but if your district has such a beast, you might want to be sure your Roundtable Commissioner are invited.

Oh Old Grey Eagle, Thank you for so capably illustrating the need to explain abbreviations/acronyms!

Hello NJ Cub Scouter, Yes, Hawkrod mentioned this problem on another thread, but when I tried to spin it off, it wouldn't spin. I found BS-87's example to be amusing! Do we need to explain "Webelos"?

I've been doing our Cub Scout Roundtables since last July, since the last Roundtable Commissioner left and the district had no replacement. Attendance had been declining for years. My most welcome innovation has been limiting Roundtable to an hour. The Cub Scout Roundtable is over while the neighboring Boy Scout Roundtable may go on another half hour or hour. For good or ill, I don't use the "official" program. I look for excellent program and hopefully excellent people to presdent it. October---- Making and launching stomp bottle rockets November ----Making and using a Scout carrying hovercraft December --- Recruiting additional unit leaders January --- What to Do With Webelos! February --- Recruiting and Retaining Hispanic Youth March --- Pack Leaders and their Cub Scout invited for a model recruiting night I use the District Executive's e-mail list to invite unit leaders to the program and to forward the e-mail to other unit leaders ---twice. I collect e-mail addresses of those who attend a Roundtable and send them notices as well. We're up to about a dozen people attending per month at this point.

I have a couple of simple Swiss Army knives similar to the one described by mn_scout. Acquiring two was a coincidence, but has proved to be useful. The red plastic handle on one cracked off. I mailed it in to the Swiss Army Knife guarantee address and they sent me out a brand new knife a month or so later. So I used the other knife until the plastic jhandle on that one cracked off. I'm using the replacement knife I got and haven't yet got around to mailing in the second knife. So---- the guarantee works, but you'd think they would have figured out the handles by now. I carry the Swiss Army knife with me all the time, using the ring on the knife to fit it on my key ring.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

I agree that abbreviations are over used and underexplained here. My suggestion: spell out and perhaps explain a term or program the first time you refer to it, and save the abbreviation for subsequent uses. That way the term will be understood, and the abbreviation will be learned as well.

Hello Packsaddle, Around Washington State, sportsfishing groups for decades had backpacked trout into remote backcountry lakes to be released. That was with the agreement of state management agencies. Ten years or so ago, these agencies decided that such fish were non native in those lakes, which didn't naturally support any game fish populations. So they used state employees to pack chemicals in to those lakes to kill all the fish. Frankly, I think that stinks. Perhaps if there are native species you don't want non native species competing with them. But I don't see a reasonable objection to stocking lakes with no fish populations except for extremist environmental ideology.

You have my sympathy, basement dweller. I think I'd organize a sit in at the Cub Scout Roundtable!

I'm a fan of the Tiger Cub Program. It makes a point of involving parents and requiring some good kinds of outings. I'd like to see more of that format for Wolves and Bears. Also I think there's too much emphasis on more or less formal kinds of learning in Wolves, Bears and Webelos. Too much program complexity, especially for Webelos. My standard for signing off Cub Scout Achievements is for boys to Do Their Best while STILL having FUN! I had to work pretty hard to do that as a defacto Wolf Den Leader/Cubmaster last year. That was fine as far as it went (aside from being hard work for me), but parents and Scouts who missed meetings often never made up the material and didn't get their badges. SIMPLER and MORE FUN! is my bias. Look at the Tiger Cub Program and ramp that up somewhat for older Cub Scouts.

Achtung, Achtung! Will the Waffen Uniform Police please report to the front office! We have some Chartered Organization Reps who are Out Of Uniform and need to have their red or blue shoulder loops and their unit numbers ripped off! Achtung, Achtung! Now please. This is just in good fun. I didn't know about those uniform issues either, and I was glad to be instructed. I might not take them too seriously, but I'm glad to know them and understand the reasoning behind them. Really --- if I ever was part of a unit with a bona fide Chartered Organization Rep who did his job and wore a uniform, I would shake his hand with so much sincerity that the unit numerals and the red or blue loops might bounce off by themselves!

Personally, I can't say that I've ever encountered a Chartered Organization Rep who knew and was doing his job. I don't doubt there are those who do, someplace. We Have an LDS Rep who attends EVERY district meeting in uniform (he's the only one in uniform) but he's the LDS Rep for a regional group of LDS units --- he leads the unit CORs and units as needed. Too bad we don't have more CORs of that guy's commitment, energy and expertise.

Hello desertrat, My method of reenforcing Scouting skills was quite practical: find out which senior Scouts were going to teach junior Scouts first aid. Set up first aid problems for Scouts to encounter and solve. Ask Scouts where we were located on a map, and how they knew that. I recall two junior Scouts on a camping trip who were warned to hang their food up but did not. They went hungry the next day. I recall another Scout who couldn't lifty his pack up on his first backpack trip. Investigation revealed numrous pairs of underwear and even more "Supersips"! Two senior Scouts were tested on their ability to tie a bowline and plan and execute a rescue when a junior Scout rolled about thirty feet down a snowshoot of deep, soft snow and couldn't get out by himself. In my view, retesting shouldn't be formal and academic ---- it's best when it grows naturally out of the Scouting program -the need to teach younger boys skills and the need to use and practice skills as part of a troop and patrol program. But it's certainly true that everyone needs to practice or use skills or they will tend to be lost, or won't be mastered in the first place. But perhaps I'm wrong. How many adult leaders here are willing to go back and sit through the adult leadership skill training for Scoutmasters every two years?

Heh, heh! Moosetracker, who is also on the trail of the elusive "next" button!

Kudu, "Yes, we should always include Baden-Powell's requirements to call it "Scouting" (the BSA did a good job at that in 1911)" Earlier in this thread you cited a court decision that authorizes BSA to use the term "Scouting." It would seem by that decision that BSA owns the term, not Baden Powell. After all, that's what the 1916 charter calls for, and you've even proved it with a Court decision that happens to be on point as far as who can use the term Scouting. You always seem to be looking for some Authority to support your personal views. But since the BSA owns the term Scouting, perhaps the Authority you should be quoting are the words of the Chief Scout Executive.

Personally I'm surprised to see Kudu advocating that Merit Badges be "recertified" every 18 months. That seems like a pedantic formula to take the fun and outing out of Scouting. I can't see many Scout anxious to recertify their "Citizenship in the World" Merit Badge! What we can do is build issues that Merit Badges cover into our regular Troop programs. Have first aid problems on outings rather than "recertifying" on Merit Badge content. Build in opportunities for qualified Scouts to teach newer and younger boys. A lot of Merit Badges are quite specialized, and I don't think it would be practical to turn experts out for such recertification. And In my opinion, one virtue of Merit Badges is that it gives youth a chance to investigate a variety of topics and fields in which they may have some interest. They get to learn something about those topics and then either drop them if they've learned enough or perhap investigate them in more detail and even make a profession out of the field. There's no reason to try to make boys maintain a detailed interest in fields they have investigated to their satisfaction and in which they have no further interest.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)