SeattlePioneer

As Cubmaster, I form a "Bobcat Den" as part of our spring recruiting night composed of all the new boys and parents. We go through the Bobcat requirements and go on a spring den hike. The idea is to show boys and parents what a model den program should be like. Then new Scouts transition to their new dens at out June overnight campout. It also gives me a chance to size up parents and decide who should be helping with what. Tiger Cub partners in particular were invited to take the Tiger Cub Den Leader training and follow that up with the Tiger Twilight Daycamp organized by the district. The parent who did that was well prepared to take over as Tiger Cub Den Leader right away. Personally, I see the failure to get Tiger Cub Dens off to a good start as a common failing of Cub Packs which can badly damage a pack program. So I'm experimenting with ways to avoid that to identify and train new Tiger Cub den leader during and after our spring recruiting night. Why wait until February if you can do that in May or June?

Hello Steve, So how is your Bear Den coming? Are you planning to continue as Webelos leader? If not, you should be looking for parents who have some camping and outdoor skillos who can take that responsibility. If you are planning on doing that, do you have good camping and outdoor skills? Webelos Scouts need a good outdoor program to keep their interest. If you don't you should be looking for parents who do who can help plan and carry out Weebelos camping trips. Also, I'd be looking at Webelos programs offered by Scout Troops and your district or other districts that you can participate in next year. And I'd be looking for Scout Troops you can partner with for camping trips and troops visits. Planning those kinds of things now will make the Weebelos year simpler and with a stronger program.

A lot of people who profess a belief in environmentalist theories are nature worshipers in my opinion. Does that meet the Scouting test of a "duty to God"? Do those who profess themselves to be atheists admitting to a form of religion?

Welcome, Troop! I'm always glad to hear about trips Scout Troops have done recently and plan to do in the future....

Personally, I've always been interested in frugal, low cost Scoutings programs. Based on that value, I've never been in a unit that attended a National Jamboree, Philomont or other high end programs. That's not to say I'm opposed to such programs, they haven't been things units I've been a part of have done, and I didn't raise them as program goals. Based on that, my primary area of concern in your post is keeping Scout Summer Camps available and affordable. Our council and a neighboring council has sold off camps deemed marginal over the decades. These have mostly been relatively lightly developed camps that are in suburban areas. We are left with two main council camps that are a fifty mile drive from my area, farther than a lot of families, Cub Scout in particular want to drive. Last year my Cub Scout Pack scheduled a Pack Overnight Camp at one of those camps, and had to cancel it when only one parent and two Cub Scouts actually signed up to attend. Other families decided it was too far to drive. There would have been some benefit to keeping one of those two camps that were sold off. On the other hand, there is a nice Lion's Club camp available for use at no charge another ten miles farther away which could be used. Decisions on property are difficult, and controversial. Every time the council sells off property, a coalition of Scouters with emotional attachments and environmental groups raise a ruckus about it. Personally, I have no sympathy at all for environmentalists intervening in such decisions. Good financial management has a lot of benefits, including avoiding crises that might cause camps to be sold. Good long term planning on what kind of camps are needed is also important. In my view, decisions on camps should be made based on the needs of Scouts and the Scouting program. We are here to serve boys and youth, not hang on to real estate.

Most Eagle Boards these days are looks at the religious activities of Scouts in order to screen out boys trying to skate through with this kind of deception. So the answer is "No." The BSA is entitled to have it's own standards about such things and it does. This is a diverse and multicultural society. In such a society you should expect to find varying opinions on such issues. Indeed, the only way to avoid variety is to use laws to stamp out the multicultural society.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

I ran into an experienced Scoutmaster who had been an experienced Cubmaster and we were joking about this. I thought I'd throw it out for a wider audience. Few things attract such unanimity on this board!

I would wear my uniform as a matter of routine. If I weren't the leader of my group, I'd make a point of introducing the leader or leaders.

Youth or adults?

I hate to have to inform you of this, but the kid who got stung that you injected had qan allergic reaction to the drug and died from that, according to the autopsy. Medical opinion is that you were irresponsible in injecting the kid and that doing so killed him. Your first aid instructor verifies that you were told never to give a prescription drug to someone other than the person for who the presciption was written. You are sued for $100 million in regular and puntive damages.

You really know how to take it easy on Cubmasters, Eagledad! I put a good deal of the program for a Cub Pack together in 2004-2005 and it is being faithfully replicated every year! It will be interesting to see how long that continues. And I've replicated a good deal of that in the pack for which I'm Cubmaster, adding in district events so that I don't have to organizae them (and they are quality events anyway and deserve to be supported).(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Around here, there isn't a lot of advice available on how to structure your sale in ways that trains and motivates boys and families to maximize sales. I'm sure that succesful packs have this figured out, but the information isn't widely disseminated. Just one example ---- saving the names and addresses of people who bought popcorn the previous year and hitting them up again. That's a simple idea --- why not publicize it?

Sounds like you have a great program Basement. Your long term leadership planning sounds excellent, but your short term leadership planning needs improvement. As you identify new areas where you need help with the program, you should be getting help from your committee in finding new people to fill those roles. Frankly, your long term leadership planning outshines mine altogether. But in my pack, as we identify new things that need parental leadership, we are on the lookout for that help right away. Personally, I'm experimenting with the position of "ScoutParent Coordinator," a registered BSA position for CuB Packs, Scout Troops and Venturing Crews. The Scoutparent Coordintor has two main functions: 1) Welcoming new parents into the unit 2) Signing up all families to help with at least one activity per year. MOST people aren't very good at asking people to help with activities and getting them to agree. Since that's often the case, it's a job often done poorly. A lot of families never get asked, or are allowed to wiggle off the hook. Pack leaders tend to ask the same people to help over and over. With a ScoutParent Cordininator, you look for ONE person who is likely to do a good job, and then feed them the positions you need filled ---- they find the people you need. Another advantage--- people are MOST likely to help when they are new to Cub Scouts and aren't experienced in dodging, bobbing and weaving to avoid helping. Sincwe the ScoutParent Coordinator talks to those people right away after they join (the same week preferably) you start getting them to help right away, rather than months later. More information on this approach at: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/ScoutParent_Unit_Coordinator

Sounds like you have a great program Basement. Your long term leadership planning sounds excellent, but your short term leadership planning needs improvement. As you identify new areas where you need help with the program, you should be getting help from your committee in finding new people to fill those roles. Frankly, your long term leadership planning outshines mine altogether. But in my pack, as we identify new things that need parental leadership, we are on the lookout for that help right away. Personally, I'm experimenting with the position of "ScoutParent Coordinator," a registered BSA position for CuB Packs, Scout Troops and Venturing Crews. The Scoutparent Coordintor has two main functions: 1) Welcoming new parents into the unit 2) Signing up all families to help with at least one activity per year. MOST people aren't very good at asking people to help with activities and getting them to agree. Since that's often the case, it's a job often done poorly. A lot of families never get asked, or are allowed to wiggle off the hook. Pack leaders tend to ask the same people to help over and over. With a ScoutParent Cordininator, you look for ONE person who is likely to do a good job, and then feed them the positions you need filled ---- they find the people you need. Another advantage--- people are MOST likely to help when they are new to Cub Scouts and aren't experienced in dodging, bobbing and weaving to avoid helping. Sincwe the ScoutParent Coordinator talks to those people right away after they join (the same week preferably) you start getting them to help right away, rather than months later. More information on this approach at: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/ScoutParent_Unit_Coordinator

1) Expensive training I wouldn't hesitate to send the pack a receipt for any training expenses you have incurred. Of course I'd ask the treasurer to include those costs as a budget item. Training would be for Committee members, Den Leaders and Pack leaders. Unfortunately, not too many will take advantage of that, but let's give them every encouragement! 2) Complaining District Executive. Well, DEs have their job to do as well. Perhaps you should study the methods of your DE. He is preumably making it clear what he expe3cts and what he needs from you. Those are methods you can use to get parents to start helping you with the things that need to be done. Secondly, you can start bargaining with the DE. You need some help in devising a strategy to get parents to help out in leading the pack. It's likely that the DE knows a district volunteer who is good at helping to do that. Ask the DE for some help in devising a strategy and methods calculated to get more parents involved in making the pack work. You could make a similar appeal to the Disrict Commissioner. Another approach would be to attend your district committee meeting, held once/month. If you explain the problems that you are having and that you need some help devising strategies to get the help you need, you'll probably be introduced to someone who can help you come up with a strategy.

I've helped design the program for several packs which I've helped rebuild. I find that those programs, while good, tend to be repeated each year without much variation. I'm doing that myself in a pack where I'm into my third year as Cubmaster. Pinewood Derbies, Cub Scout Bowling Tournament, Klondike Derby, Camporee ---- other district events are often repeated in the same format or a similar one. To some extent I think that's OK, new activities are often a challenge and if they are repeated a couple of time, boys get to learn from experience and increasing maturity. On the other hand, repeating something each year probably gets old for Webelos Scouts. Of course, Webelos can do more of their own activities. But Weebelos leaders tend to want to rely on pack activitie when they can. Anyone have ideas on how to manage this?

I think I'd either cross out the parts the Doc needn't consider or ask the Doc to cross out portions he can't approve in whatever way he wants to do it.

Hello Basemebntdweller, I appreciate your sense of having made a commitmnent, but at a minimum you need to start planning how to get the help you very much need, for the benefit of everyone. You might want to consider starting a new thread, describing you pack by number of boys and dens, Den Leaders, Committee Chair, Chartered Organization and ask for some help in deciding how to get things back on track. I think you would get a variety of ideas and you might find some that you would like to try.

Unfortunately, those are good questions. And as Scout leaders are increasingly burdened with requirements of various kinds, it's going to be increasingly difficult to find leaders willing to jump through all the hoops. It's already a significant problem in my opinion.

The past two years my small pack has participated in the district Pinewood Derby, put on by a neighboring Scout Troop. The first time this went on for 2+ hours of race after race. I was bored after a while, and so were a lot of the Scouts ---younger boys. Last year was better --- not as long. Last spring we did Pinewood Derby racing as a recruiting night activity. That attracted quite a crowd of boys, who had a perfectly good time assembling and decorating their cars in a short period of time and then arrannging their own races. Boys added their name to a certificate and then were awarded stickers for each two man match they won. Last fall we did much they same thing using "stomp bottle rockets" that the current Cub Scouts and boys interested in Cub Scouts made, decorated and then launched. They had plenty of competition among themselves which they created for themselves by and large. My general plan this spring is to hand out the PWD car kits and allow boys to assemble and race their cars that same evening, again arranging their own races. They can then take them home and do more elaborate car building to prepare for the district Pinewood Derby race. Personally I don't understand why people think only ADULTS can manufacture competition. My experience is that boys do that quite naturally and easily themselves, whenever given an oppotunity. That's probably different for Webelos age boys, who are ready for more complex challenges and competitions. But especially for Tiger Cubs and Wolves, I think there's a lot of merit in simpler competitions the boys arrange for themselves.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

Eagledad, Competition is fine, I use it all the time to motivate boys. But how sharp should the competition be? Shoould we aim for an Olympic Games level of competition for our Pinewood Derby for Wolf Cubs? Of course not. We should be looking at the BOYS and what they find FUN and motivating. I see way too much competition motivated by what adults find fun and motivating. And what about those moms who don't have woodworking skills and tools? I suppose others don't care, but the methods I described are aimed at those moms and their sons, showing them how they can make a place for themselves at the Pinewood Derby. Unfortunately, too often this is the one activity of the year that adult men really get buzzed about and they want to take it over and shove the boys interest aside in favor of their own desire to WIN! Sorry. I remain unimpressed.

This thread has the typical bias that evryone should be protected and that those providing aid ---first aid, should be subject to ever higher standards of care. That seems to be the direction Scouting is moving all right, but just how realistic is it? Not just having taken First Aid, but WILDERNESS First Aid. With annual followups perhaps, to remain CERTIFIED. Traditionally, one of the bulwarks of personal freedom and liberty has been the concept of "assumption of risk," the idea that people (adults) were free to take chances with their lives and that if the worst happened, they were responsible for the consequences of their actions. And parents were entitled to authorize other adults or youth to take custody of their children and to do risky activities they authorized them to do. As a society we seem to be increasingly turning away from tyhe concept of assumption of risk, and therefore turning away from the concept of personal freedom and liberty. We must all be wrapped in ample margins of protections, and if something bad happens the bias is that somebody did something wrong and that someone should pay. In Scouting that appears to be playing itself out by increasing restriction upon what leaders and participants can do as activities, and making activities increasingly complicated so that often they aren't used in the program any longer.

I'm no lawyer, but as I understand the law, youth under age 18 are presumed to be in need of adult supervision. If parents fail to supervise their children, they can be liable for damage they do. Parents can delegate that responsibility to other adults, such as Scout Leaders. Scout Leader are then In Loco Parentis and are expected to supervise the children placed in their care in a responsible way. If Scout Leaders fail to supervise youth and the youth are injured or cause damage to others, they can be held liable for that NEGLIGENCE. That doesn't mean that every injury sustained by a youth is compensable, but if adult leaders aren't paying attention to hazards and the abilities of youth to manage the activities they are doing, there may indeed be liability when bad things happen. I notice another thread promotes "Patrol Camping" where youth are hiking and camping pretty much independent of adult supervision. I imagine the smart thing to do for an activity of that kind is to include a prominent statement on a parent permission slip that youth will be supervising their own activities without adult supervision, and getting the approval of parents in writing for that kind of activity.

As I've already noted, I'm not very happy with overproduced Pinewood Derby races. In particular, a lot of moms wind up helping their Scouts make a Pinewood Derby car, and they are often put off or intimidated by elaborate car building schemes. I make my own car to show off to moms like that. I take the block of wood right out of the box and spray paint it a couple of times. I make decals from Cub Scout literature and stick them on the sides of the car. Oh yeah--- I put the wheels on. That's it. My aim is to make the simplest car I can and my aim is to show parents how simple and easy it can be to make a car.

I recommend the Tiger Cub Den Leader class for all Tiger Cub Partners. The suggested syllabus for the program goes over the Tiger Cub material in the Cub Scout Leader Handbook, plus has good exercises in planning go-see-its, planning den meetings, goes over record keeping aids and such. I taught the class last year at our June Roundtable. Before that the class had been offered at the district training session in March until I pointed out that the NEXT year Tiger Cub Partners hadn't been recruited yet and the CURRENT Tiger Cub Partners were mostly completing the program! The District Training Chair thought about that a minute or so before getting that logic! In the program I do, I provide participants with a three ring "Tiger Cub Den Leader Handbook" that I make up. It includes the Chapter 19 Tiger Cub Section of the Cub Scout Leader Handbook, Tiger Cub Den Leader Position Summary from the Handbook, Tiger Cub Den Leader Description, Elements of A Good Tiger Cub Den Meeting from the Handbook, Several Tiger Cub Den Meeting planning worksheets Several Tiger Cub Den Meeting Plans from meetings I've run in the past, A Council Compiled list of Go See It activities Tiger Cub Den Record Sheet Tiger Cub Attendance and Dues Sheet Tiger Cub Advancement Report Sheet Den Advancement Report Sheet Individual Tiger Cub Record Sheet (The above from the Leader Handbook) "Managing Boys" Chapter from the Leader Handbook Progress Record form for the award of the Tiger Cub Den Leader Knot Family Talent Survey Sheet Sample of Roundtable handouts As a Gathering Activity, those attending the Tiger Cub Den Leader Training decorate their notebook by making decorating a front cover for their notebook. I encourage Den Leaders to add material to their notebook during the year and then pass the notebook on to the next Tiger Cub Den Leader. Despite spending a good deal of effort preparing for and promoting this June Tiger Cub Den Leader Tarining, I had one Tiger Cub Partner attend (from my own pack) and one Cubmaster attend (from a pack where I am Unit Commissioner). Uniform Inspection Worksheet,