SeattlePioneer

Hello Crew21, It's interesting to read your explanation for how this mythology developed. I'm not especially impressed by the explanation for recruiting those who had already been in WB to take it again. It appears they were viewed as a vulnerable group who could be persuaded to part with their time and money in order to further someone's sales quota. Just as you say, it appears that the previous WB course DID tend to deepen the commitment of people to Scouting. Unfortunately this was used in a rather cynical way to take advantage of that commitment. I wonder how many such people wound up not "working their ticket" in useful ways in order to take this training again when it had limited utility? How great was the net HARM done to Scouting? And now the mythology has taken on a life of its own in a way that demeans those who took the earlier course. Quite an accomplishment.

I'm taking up a collection to send Kudu ro WB21C. Let me know if you'd like to make a contribution.

Circa 1983 or so, I remember tapouts were conducted by my district at Camporee. My troop had held the elction (more selective than now) several weeks in advance and I filled out the paper work to submit the names of those elected. The tapout was conducted by OA members in Indian costumes, who came around to each troop. An award of an oyster shell on a lanyard constituted the tapout. I was probably more surprised than anyone when "I" was tapped out! At the time I didn't realize that adults were eligible, and someone had taken the trouble to conceal my selection --- I still don't know how that was managed! Anyway, I found it a considerable challenge to keep my mouth shut during the Ordeal.... Seattle Pioneer

Not to knock Eagle Scout, but... To me, First Class is still the most important rank. By First Class, Scouts should have learned most of what they will learn about character, fitness and citizenship. Eagle is that plus some additional leadership training and experience. I run across a lot of adults who often more or less apologize for not having received the Eagle rank. I find that unfortunate, especially when they did complete First Class, Star or Life. I always tell them that First Class is the most important rank in Boy Scouts TO ME, and that often seems to cheer people up.

Eagle 92 posts: > Rocketry is something that has a powerful appeal to Cub Scouts. I'm going to be using stomp bottle rockets for a recruiting night this spring, and expect to be mobbed. The water bottle rockets you describe are like the next step up, and I might experiment with that at our June Pack overnight. I don't have experinece with the "real" fire breathing Estes type rockets. What are likely ways of acquiring enough experience with those to use them in a Cub Scout outing? I've heard of packs that make quite an activity of that ----perhaps too much like another Pinewood Derby. But perhaps it takes a few years to get to the typical PWD excesses. Who has pointers on how to makes this a good Cub Scout outing?

Eagle 732, I'd say I don't believe you except that I've seen that kind of thing myself. My favorite personal experience was with a doting father who was Committee Chair. His son failed his Life Scoutmaster conference but dad signed him off on it anyway. The SM did know how to deal with that, so he got the rank. When it came time for his Eagle SM conference he failed again. By that time dad wasn't CC anymore, and he moved his son to another Troop, where he was someone else's problem. Personally I never saw a boy less ready to be Eagle. Generally speaking I'd have categorized him as a reasonably competent Second Class Scout. However, not long before his Eagle SM Conference, he'd gotten lost at an overnight at a state park, been trapped in the shower house at summer camp because he couldn't figure out how to change his pants, articulately but bitterly complained that we were camping rather than staying in hotels, and refused to get out of the sack when we were getting packed up to leave summer camp. (In full view of his father, other adult leaders and the Scouts, I pulled the foot of his sleeping bag until he was finally out of the sack.) He wasn't a bad kid, just lazy and spoiled. He was really a hoot!(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

A few months ago both our District Executive and District Chair were absent from our District Committee meeting. Well, when the cats' away the mice will play! We had a good complaint session with a good many people expressing their worries about declining district and commissioner volunteers! That was past due, in my opinion. Our DE replied a month or two later with a brainstorming session in which we identified 40-50 people who were possibilities as commissioner or district volunteers. Unfortunately, we never had any feedback from our DE on using that list to solicit new volunteers. One person I suggested did become our Cub Scout Daycamp Chair. Somehow I think that proves the list needs to be more effectively exploited rather than that its yielded the limit of volunteers. I suppose I ought to ask about that at our next district meeting. Perhaps we ought to have a phone-a-thon some night where we call all the people on the list and see if they are able to help us in some capacity. So many rabbles to rouse--- so little time!

2.5 years ago I started working to revive a pack that was down to one Scout. I tried to get rid of the PWD for all the reasons you see people objecting to it in this thread. Unfortunately, the then current Cubmaster was a big PWD fan who made and raced his own car each year, and I couldn't do it. Now that CM has moved on. I brought up my plan to hand out PWD cars for boys to assemble and race the same evening, organizing their own races and competitions themselves. I had one parent --- a MOM, who objected that this would cause wear to the wheels which would cause the cars to run slow (sigh!) She wanted boys to use cars they had built in previous years. Frankly I think the PWD is like a disease and there is no vaccine available.

I took the "old" WB course in 1985. Personally I have yet to see anyone who has taken the "new" WB course impress me as having superior skills of any kind because they took the new course rather than the old course. There were a number of positive things I took away from Wood Badge --- probably the most important a deeper sense of commitment to "working my ticket" as a lifelong avocation. Were I to take the new WB course --- what should I give up to make time for an additional commitment? 1) The failed pack I've been reviving for 2+ years as Cubmaster? 2) Serving as Cub Scout RT Commissioner since August because no one else was available? 3) Serving as District Membership Chair? 4) Looking for methods to increase recruiting and retention of Hispanic Scouts and families in traditional Scout units? 5. Perhaps the Pack I'm Commissioner for would be better off without a Commissioner? Until someone wants to suggest that I should drop some of these and other activities in order to take Wood Badge again, because it is SO revolutionary, I will consider the claim that people should be disqualified for not having taken it as bogus. The only places I hear it is required is for leading unit to Jamboree. Even there, refusing to consider earlier WB graduates for such a position seems bogus to me unless sonmeone can explain to me which new skills are critically important to filling that position. Frankly, I understand that Adult leaders managed to get units organized for Jamboree without the new WB course before it was invented. I suspect there are many adult leaders who would do a fine job of providing such leadership without ever having taken WB. I'm not impressed by such requirements unless they were supported by unambiguous proof that the new training was clearly superior to the earlier training. I've never been able to observe that at all myself.

> Interesting comment. I suppose that the role the DC is supposed to fill. We haven't seen any of that, so I guess I was looking for other things. Very likely you are correct. Do you have a history of that kind of prestige/power broker leader in you district? I can't tell from your comments. Perhaps that's an explanation for the weaknesses of my district. We have a tough time finding the leaders we need to provide the services that are needed. Our district chairs tend to be good and experienced district Scouters, but they mostly know other Scouters, not a wider audience that might be brought in as fresh blood and new volunteers. I suppose I've read that as the desired standard for a district chair, but I've never seen it and wound up not looking for that kind of person. I suppose I ought to be talking to our district nominating committee and asking them to be looking for that kind of person. Thanks for an interesting comment ---- but please tell me if you've been able to attract that kind of DC.

I few weeks ago I started a thread asking if boys or parents created more trouble in Scout units. Here is yet more evidence of why parents won that issue hands down! While booting out the complaining parents their boys would be very tempting, I would recommend against it unless there are further problems. A parent with a grievance who pursues it in a reasonable way is entitled to do so in my opinion, and going to the Scout office qualifies as a reasonable way to complain in my book. We need to look for ways to get along and live together, not for opportunities to muscle each other. Of course they may quit, too.

> Now THIS is a fine example of Boy Scout leadership! Were there other Scouts in a masure of distress benefitting from their leadership? Were they motivated to do this on their own or were they reminded and encouyraged by adult leaders --- if you know? I'll bet this did wonders to educate young Scouts on why they should listen to and respect those elected to leadership positions. Not that it's especially important, but do you remember if the SPL and PL wound up getting Eagle?

Yep, the Chief Seattle Council has a lot of districts with one Silver Beaver recipient, some with two. Perhaps it's interesting that there are only two nominated from the council. http://www.seattlebsa.org/

The SM's son should have an Assistant Scoutmaster who acts as the SM for that boy, in my view. One reason is to avoid making the program too easy. Another is to avoid making it too hard. I can think of several others.

I'd guess that you are legally in a strong position since he wrote you a check, which is pretty much an admission that he owes you the money. In an earlier thread like this I've supported the idea of calling the cops. Last fall several youth groups had problems with adults stealing from them, and the cops and prosecutors came down like a ton of bricks on those people. So I'd be interested in how that works out for you. I think I'd start by talking to the police ----having a cop offer someone the choice to pay up or be prosecuted for a bad check might offer a pretty powerful incentive. Others in that thread suggested contacting your Chartered Organization before calling the cops to inform them and get their agreement to support that. That's probably a good idea.

Since you mention rocketry---- There are several kinds of rocketry you might experiment with on different days. I'd had great success lately with "stomp bottle rockets" launched by stomping on a soda pop bottle. These are easy to make and fun. They might be a good project for your first day in camp. Then go on to other kinds of rockets --- there are lots, capping your camp with some Estes type fire making rockets. Just a thought----

Hello UC Eagle, Congratulations on making the effort to get out and visit units "in the field" as District Commissioner. I think there perhaps should be a similar expectation for District Chairman. You seemed ready not to expect your District Chair to appear at district activities, and perhaps not to join you in visiting units. Why is that, may I ask? As I think about this, perhaps the District Key 3 might set a goal of visiting all units at least once/year, and share in carrying out that goal. Even better might be to set a goal of having a volunteer district leader visit each unit at least once/year. That might encourage other district leaders to help with this program. A chart showing each unit might be displayed at district meetings with district volunteers filling in the dates of their recent visits. It would also spread that expectation to visit units to additional district volunteers. As District Membership Chair for example, we have some weak units I really should be visiting to see how they are doing and offer some encouragement. I know our District Outdoor Chair has been discouraged by declining Camporee attendance. If he were encouraged to do unit visits perhaps that might inmprove. In another thread we are discussing how to improve communication with units. Visits to units by district officers might be a very good way of doing that. Certainly time consuming and perhaps burdensome for district volunteers. But should we be setting expectations for unit visits by district volunteers perhaps as part of our district annual plans?

I guess we have a practical answer to the question posed as the title to this thread....

A few months ago Microsoft's Bill Gates was awarded the Silver Beaver or Silver Buffalo recognizing his achievements. He was a Cub Scout for awhile, but not an AOL high achiever! He was given this award at a notably well attended $10,000/plate dinner benefitting the council and BSA I expect. I was glad to see that happen and to recognize a Cub Scout who was a world famous achiever as an adult!(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

It occurs to me that your Unit Commissioner isn't the only person you might expect to see at a unit meeting or committee meeting. Our Council Executive regularly appears at Council training events and quarterly council meetings of district volunteers. Council professional staff are there too. The Council Executive and the head of the professional staff makes tours of district meetings as well. Usually you can expect to see them every couple of years. Perhaps units should have similar expectations for District Executives, District Chairman and District Commissioners. Our DE gets around for FOS and recruiting nights pretty regularly, but how often does your District Commissioner or District Chairman appear at a unit meeting of yours?

Interesting comments! As a Scoutmaster from 1982-1987, I never had a visit from a UC. I probably would have benefitted from some advice at the time, I tended to be buried in my unit. I'm always on the lookout for new district leaders or Unit Commissioners. I recruited the former Cubmaster who was leaving as Webelos Den Leader as he was going out the door as our UC. He completed the adult leader application and I sent it on to our DE a year ago. I just recently discovered he has never been formally appointed as UC and the District Commissioner had not heard of him. I identified a Tiger Cub Den Leader last spring who had done an excellent job as Den Leader. I asked her to be our district "Chief Tiger Cub" to stay in touch with this years Tuiger Cub Den Leaders and provide them with encouragement, ideas and such, but I got turned down. Just a couple of months ago she offered to "help" with our Cub Scout day camp, and now she's the Day Camp Director. So I figure I did a good job of picking out a likely prospect there anyway! Perhaps we ought to target people with 2-3 years service as Scoutmaster, Cubmaster or Committee Chair and ask them about serving as UC ---- especially when they are leaving their job. They would be good prospects in many cases, I would suppose. Unfortunately, I don't see our District Commissioners DOING all that much. Perhaps they do, but I don't see it much. Things seem to be slowly dissolving as the years go by.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

It's discouraging to read so many comments from people who have had negative experiences with their Commissioner or don't have one at all. For those who are unhappy, perhaps you should recruit a UC with which you would be happy. I took over from a Cubmaster who had had that position six years. He became Werbelos Den Leader for two boys, and served as Webelos leader until they crossed over into the Troop our pack usually feeds. His son is also in that troop, and needless to say it's important for such troops to keep track of what is going on in their feeder pack(s). What better way than to have someone in the troop serving as the pack Unit Commissioner, especially someone with a long history with the pack? So as you have Cub Scouts aging out of Cub Scouts, why not look over the parents who have served the pack and decide which one(s) might be abloe to provide useful feedback to your pack or another pack? You can ask them to fill out the adult leader application and turn it in to your District Commissioner or District Executive with the suggestion that they be made a UC. Many Districts are woefully short of UCs and would be delighted to act on likely prospects.

Having written an e-mail that might get the "Journey to Excellence" program kicked off in my own unit, what else might I do to help communicate that program to other units? What I did was to write a second e-mail to the Cubmaster and Pack Committee Chair of two other Cub Packs I work with pretty closely. Actually, one of the Cubmasters was at the Roundtable, and one of the Committee Chairs stopped by briefly, although she probably didn't hear the presentation on this program. I sent the following e-mail to these people together with the PDF file on the program: > My original e-mail was my effort to get the program used in my unit. The second e-mail was my effort to show two other units how they might make get the program started in their units. Maybe I'm being preumptuous by proferring unasked for advice. If so, I figure my e-mail will be easy to ignore. But perhaps it will be picked up and used. At a minimum it will be another opportunity for people to hear about the program and consider if it's something they would like to try. So those are two efforts to translate a formal program into something that might actually be used in a Scout unit. A third effort is to post those examples here ---- perhaps someone else will find those methods useful to get something started in their own unit. Are formal efforts to communicate like Roundtable presentations enough, or do we need to make informal efforts to communicate as well?

How does formal communication of a program become translated into real action? Last Thursday our DE gave a presentation on the new "Journey to Excellence" program that is replacing the Centennial Quality Unit Award program. Now, I've heard that two or three times now, so I am beginning to get the point. But how does that translate into it actually making a difference to a unit? Yesterday I Googled up "Cub Scout Journey to Excellence" and found that a PDF file was available that I could now e-mail to others. So I sent the following e-mail to my new Pack Committee Chair who just took office witht the new year:

What would constitute "helpful info," Basementdweller?