scoutldr

The Scout is an Eagle...the EBOR was convened and he passed. His application was approved by the SM, the Troop Committee Chair, District, Council and National and he has his certificate and medal in hand. All this pontificating about a "valid" EBOR is moot. The only remaining question is why the jerks on the Troop Committee and SM are denying him a Court of Honor.

There are too many unexplained incongruences going on here. And I perceive a terminology problem. I suspect that when mich first said "council" they meant "troop committee". A COH should never be denied for "financial or time constraints"...have a potluck...spend a few bucks for paper plates. Our COH's were always conducted at NO expense to the troop. And what troop is so active that they can't carve out an hour for a COH? The allegation of "discrimination" still bothers me, while offering no reason for that perception. Is the Scout gay? Black? Muslim? Purple? Avowed atheist? None of those are valid reasons for denying a Scout anything after his Eagle rank has been approved by National. Were there behavior (Scout Spirit" issues? If so, then the Eagle SM Conference should have addressed that. Too many questions. And, as usual, we are only getting one side of the story. At this point, my recommendation would be to have your ECOH...plan it yourselves and invite who you want. THere are plenty of "templates" for ECOH online. Have your celebration and get on with your lives. Yes, you and your son deserve an explanation, but I doubt you will get it.

Wear the knots proudly!

My dad was a WWII submarine veteran. I learned from a very early age that submarines are "boats"...everything else is a "target".

One aspect I am still not clear on. At camps I have attended, "visitors" (even parents) who are not registered campers, must check in at the camp "office" and show ID, then get a wristband to show that they have been admitted. They cannot (or should not) be able to just park their car and then go wandering around looking for their kid. If this procedure was not followed, I would consider that a YP issue and needs to be corrected. It is also unclear to me if the Scout was part of a troop attending camp, or was a "provisional" camper? One cannot just show up at camp and pay your money on the first day. Was he not registered in advance, at which point the custody issue should have been clearly identified on the application?

Sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree. Your court order does not bind ME to do anything as a volunteer, other than possibly to report a YP issue to the Scout Executive. IN hindsight, perhaps the dad should have had this discussion with the SE prior to camp so the SE could have a contingency plan in place.

I will be blunt...I don't think this is the Camp staff's problem. As volunteers, we are not privy to custodial orders, nor are we in a position to enforce them. This is something you need to work out with the boy's mother and the Court. Perhaps a restraining order is called for.

I agree with @quazse. A CoH is a troop function, however, the Scout and his parents "design" the type of ceremony they want, coordinate with the troop as to cost, etc, and who will be invited. I also agree with the above, not enough info for us to draw conclusions...what is the "rest of the story"? You allege discrimination...on what basis do you suspect this? If all else fails, you can contact your District Advancement Committee, and coordinate the CoH with them, requesting a representative from Council to make the presentation, be a speaker, etc. Not sure about having a "right" to a CoH, however, I can see no reason not to have one if that's what the Scout wants. The Troop's membership may participate, or not, as they wish, for whatever reason.

The ages for Exploring used to be 14-20...has that changed?

Interesting reading, RichardB. As a 40-year OSH professional myself (CIH and former Director of the ABIH), I understand the need for rules and clarity in writing them. Unfortunately, the BSA is not always good at stating what they mean, and materials are often not cross-walked for consistency. But even for me, the rule against using wheelbarrows and electric screwdrivers is hard to justify. And I have always assumed that the prohibition of laser-tag was based not on the "hazards" of the activity, but on the optics of Scouts acting out "war" and "shooting" of other human beings. As kids, most of us boys played "Army" and "Cowboys and Indians" using toy guns and dramatic theatrics of killing and being killed. Such activities are no longer politically correct and thus prohibited. But don't cloak the prohibition as some sort of safety issue. And I do take exception with the implication that these rules now apply to "non-scouting" activities. Just because I carry a BSA membership card in my wallet, doesn't mean I or my sons am bound by the G2SS while "off the clock". If that is not what BSA intended, then let's refer back to the clarity issue mentioned above. In reading the CDC incident report, it is evident that the cannon used was not designed or manufactured to be fired, but as a decorative piece. Someone modified it by boring the barrel an drilling a touch-hole, with predictable fatal results. Hopefully, this was an isolated incident, but I understand the need for the rule. As far as clarity is concerned, perhaps BSA could follow the style of OSHA in writing rules..."Should" means it's prudent and recommended..."Shall" means mandatory. And God help the leader who chooses not to follow a "Should" and something bad happens. All that being said, I recognize the tough job you have and appreciate your efforts. Along with increasing tendency to litigate over the slightest injury and refusal to recognize that zero-risk is unattainable, and the concomitant decrease in common sense amongst the younger generations, it's a tough job.

Well said, Mate. I don't consider my International friends as "interlopers"...we are all Brothers (and now Sisters) in the great Movement called Scouting. I was around when much the same discussions were held regarding racial integration. We survived. I was also around when females could hold no role except Den Mother. We survived the change and are stronger for it, in my opinion. And, more recently, we weathered the storm regarding LGBTQ membership. I foresee the day when we accept Atheists as well, to provide them with the same love, guidance and growth experiences that we provide other youth. After all, isn't that what the Bible has commanded us?

They would have a hard time proving it happened in the Scouting environment.

They could tell it was an AR-15 from the sound? Impressive.

Not to be a party pooper, but when your CO signed the charter agreement with the Council, they agreed to the following: "Ensure appropriate facilities for the unit for its regular meetings to facilitate the aims of the Chartered Organization and Scouting." SO, my read, is, if they are not providing appropriate meeting space, they have breached their contract. Something your DE should have ascertained before entering into the contract. But I guess we need to meet those goals, one way or the other.

I visited the museum in Irving, only because I was attending a work conference in Dallas. Checked it off the bucket list. If it were anywhere else, I would not make a special trip. The coolest part was the Rockwell collection.

Apparently I am late to the party, since I have no idea what kerfuffle of which you speak. Sorry to see you go, Tampa, but I understand, as we all have to seek peace in our own lives before trying to lead others to peace. As my Navy colleagues are fond of saying, "Fair winds and following seas" be with you as you continue your journey. scoutldr

I spent a 40 year career writing, interpreting and enforcing Federal safety and health regulations. Rule number one is "say what you mean" and then look for all the different ways it can be misinterpreted or circumvented. It has to be "idiot-proof". When you write a rule, standard, guideline, or whatever and tell people they can "use common sense and the Scout Motto" in assessing the risk, that is a trap meant to shift liability away from BSA. As soon as the opposing lawyer asks "why did you not follow the G2SS when it is clearly written what you should do?" and you respond "well, my common sense and experience told me it wasn't necessary"...you're done. As we all know, common sense is not very common any more...

80% of high 3 is very generous in today's environment. I retired a year ago after 32 years in the federal government. I get 1.1% of high 3 average x years of service. And from that comes $571 per month for health insurance, and federal and state income tax. We also have a 401K with a match of the first 5% of contributions, which did very well for me. Congress is currently attacking the federal retirement system to require the calculation be based in "high 5" average, plus elimination of COLA for current and future retirees.

Thanks for the clarification, Parkman. It sounds to me like things are not that far off kilter. One suggestion I would make is when the PLC has their annual planning meeting, they identify adult support for each event at that time...not wait until time for the event to wonder who will step up. This gives the adults time to plan their own calendar, as well. If no adults roger up when the event is proposed, then it comes off the schedule and you do something else. When the SPL presents his annual plan to the Troop Committee, he has a name attached to each event of someone who has agreed. The SM confirms the names with his cadre of 35 ASMs.

35 registered adults and you can't get them to show up at events? Why are they registered? I agree with sst above...the SM's primary function is to train and mentor the SPL, who runs the troop. ASMs can provide support by mentoring the other youth leaders. The Committee handles the "logistics" of the troop...recordkeeping, fundraising, Boards of Review, advancement tracking, and representation at the District Committee. They do not "supervise" the SM ... they support the program that he puts into action. Sounds like a lack of training all around if there is basic confusion as to roles and responsibilities.

The end of the human race will come, not from cancer or weapons or war, but from insects and drug-resistant microbes. On the battlefield, more die from disease and non-battle injuries (DNBI) than from hostile enemy action.

Your CO has ultimate control over who is approved to be members of your unit, even if BSA allows them. I agree, if the CC (wife) is lying about the guy's conviction, then say goodbye to the family and wish them well. A Scout is Trustworthy.

<but he reads from a copy of the 1911 version, the boys find some of the original sections very humorous> They would especially enjoy the paragraph on "Continence" in Chapter 19.

If your child has been bullied, it is a direct violation of BSA Youth Protection policies, and should be reported immediately to the Council Scout Executive directly. Call the Council Office and use the code words, "I need to speak immediately to the Scout Executive about a Youth Protection matter." Do NOT deal with the Pack Committee, the Commissioners, or the District. This will get their attention, believe me. I take it from your posts that you are a registered Leader? If so, you have no doubt taken the online BSA Youth Protection training, which is required of all adult volunteers. Bullying a child is NEVER acceptable in the Scouting program, especially by an adult. If you get no satisfaction from the BSA, you always have the option of contacting your local Child Protective Services.

This is not a new dilemma. When I was 16 (the legal age to be employed) in 1970, I worked at the mall in a shoe store. I made more on a Saturday than I would have been paid for a week of 18 hour days at camp. While I loved Scouting, it was a no brainer. I had to have money for gas and saving for college.