qwazse

Some thoughts: I didn't get cited Most troops should be boy led. Using that to distinguish your unit is lame indeed. But, boys do notice when they are being controlled or manipulated and do tell other ASMs where barriers to youth leadership have been put up. Thing is, most cub parents don't actually talk to the boys in the troop, so adult leaders can get away with spouting that mantra. I think it's healthy for a Webelos den to visit three or four local troops. No matter where they cross-over, they should have picked up several ideas of how scouting should be implemented and the diversity of boys who are out there. I think it's also healthy for a den to support it's CO. At times that should occur in concert with the CO's troop (e.g., scout Sunday or a clean-up day). But, IMHO, support should not include putting blinders on the cubs and funneling them to just to the one troop. The troop will just get a cub who has no vision of what scouting is like in his area. On the other hand, crossovers who have seen what's gone on in other troops come in with more ideas for program. Plus, they like us! They know there are other boys "out there", and that means we have more opportunities for fellowship, which translates into more fun. Also, when there's a project for the CO, it might mean that some boys from another troop will be available to help with it.

I'll second TT about the cheerfulness. Anybody can be cheerful on a sunny day. Scouts have that uncanny ability to squeeze joy out of what other folks consider miserable conditions. Although there's no specific forum about translating values into everyday life, a lot of the discussions hinge around how to be trustworthy and loyal, yet kind and courteous, scouters. (In the adult world, we sometimes find those to be on opposite sides of a spectrum.)

The point system kinda falls apart when you have a boy who is two different crew VPs plus SPL at the same time. (Or crew pres and vp at the same time.) That happens with us a lot, but what I see (as with the multiple hat discussion in the other thread) is a youth trying to be a leader in a way that isn't defined by any one patch. In any case, I remember hearing about this a few years back, and wasn't impressed. It's just one more thing to put on a resume. I'd be more impressed by a job applicant who has led a little bit in scouting, a little at church or community, maybe team captain, etc ...

On most farms, the best campsites are some distance away from where the owner will let you park.

Boy keeps materials. Use for odds and ends at home or other service (not necessarily eagle projects). I have a funny feeling that if they haven't for this endeavor, this family will contribute more than the value of those materials in helping others anyway.

As long as BSA is not paying for the ink, why not make the form longer?

In a corporation, employees may grumble they do not like the policy, but in the end they would fall in line. In BSA everyone rationalizes why the rule does not make sense, and then basically ignores the mandate. J.p., your metaphore falls flat on two accounts: Commissioners and such aren't employees. They are more like shareholders. They invest time for a return in smiles. When shareholders don't like a corporation's strategy, they revolt or direct their investment elsewhere. BSA puts up with a little shareholder shenanigans to keep that time investment (far more valuable than any cash contribution) coming their way. Even in corporations, if the mandates from HQ are causing a lack of productivity, the employees will ignore them. In fact divisions that are most productive are often the ones who manage to bypass a few corporate regulations. (To a point, mind you. A corrupt division can bring an entire company - even an industry - down.) So, a lot of posts on this site necessarily involve asking if a mandate really exists, how to be productive when that mandate seems impossible to fulfill, and how reasonable is any particular work-around for a given mandate. Quoting rules is often only the first step in solving a scouter's problem.

We all know of the two-hat syndrome. Well meaning people think they gotta do something cause nobody else is stepping up. Then they get comfortable with that additional hat and just keep wearing it. Folks who should be stepping into that position see them wearing that hat, and because they are wearing five others it doesn't look exactly right, so nobody else will want to wear it themselves. I think that when it happens, you should consider your district in a crisis. When you are in a crisis, keep looking for ways to get out of it.

Never bought a vest/blanket for myself or my boys or daughter. If they did anything besides the right pocket on their uniform, it was to staple their favorite patch on a wall.

Got no problem with a 14 y.o. who's mastered those skills. No problem with a troop full of 'em. As long they're camping and hiking every month and leading in patrols, they'd be okay in my book. But, I don't see that as where most boys are. Boys want to express scouting in every area of their life, and it takes 'em a while to get up the confidence to start in on some of those MB's.

Actually, I have one scouter credit me with a save. I got in a discussion and realized I was quickly being dragged in way over my head. It's rare that I cry uncle and back out of trying to "help" fix things, but I had been having a bad run of luck with my advice of late, so I had the presence of mind to ask "Who do you and your spouse both trust do go talk to about this?" We agreed that that 3rd party was the best option, and I extracted a promise that the one partner would talk to the other about contacting him for counseling ASAP. I said a quick prayer and ran. The next day, that fella approached me and asked my opinion (in advance if meeting with them) about how much of this was scouting related vs. other marital stuff. I forget what percentage I told him (I was embarrassed to be having the discussion at all), but it was high, and he wasn't surprised. He just said, "Well, it's time to get my money's worth out of that minor in counseling!" Don't know what transpired after that (aside from a thank you years later), but the lovely couple remain happily married -- to each other a lot and scouting a little. That's a good thing.

From observing the Baptist ministers among my wife's family, It seems that the "all by myself" mentality is a virtue. Your SM might be trying to model the "righteous" role model. I certainly have never met a Baptist minister who felt bound by anyones set of bylaws. Here's the thing ... Are the boys hiking and camping? That's all that matters. (Well the oath and law and rank advancement matter, but outdoors is where it comes together.). If the boys our getting that, then the primary need of e troop is being met. My guess is the CO wants a youth ministry that's doing right by the Almighty and giving the church a good name. You might ask the pastor to come by for vespers on a camp out, or ask him to suggest ways boys could lead devotions. Point is, if you all are sitting down at a table once a month, you all have just acknowledged everyone's right to be there. If that's not what's going on, you may want to find a different table where there's the mutual respect you crave. Hopefully your son will follow you there.

This is why written by-laws are important. Gong, you may be a persuasive fellow, and your mates will happily agree with your suggestion - this year. Then a new slate of officers comes along that doesn't share your vision. They are allowed not to, but when Secretay Jane sees that nobody is wearing the green shirt every third Thursday, she may be a little put out after having just spent the $ on a new shirt. Adding and revising by-laws for these detailed decisions is part of how we manage collective leadership.

Horizon's suggestion is probably the best. However, we have a lot of backpacking adults who are really nervous about that 300' stuff, so don't expect simply holding a backcountry activity will solve the problem in your case. It takes a lot of patience to let kids hike everyone a mile out of their way before suggesting they might want to check their navigation! It would be great if you can have an ASM who can sit down with the adults and say "This is how Mr. Gong would like to see our boys operate. .." Then lay out the ups and downs of the patrol method. Meanwhile the SM is getting the patrols started on their first task independent of mom. E.g., planning the weekend's grocery list.

Emb, the OP is a youth, and my comments were directed accordingly. Adults, if you have the itch to write something for the kids, listen to Emb and sit on your hands. There's enough paperwork in this world! Gong, I could see a crew making up a rule that the president should commit to wearing whatever the crew defines as class A at any formal function. I could also see myself asking the crew officers to evaluate the pro's and con's of that strategy.

Whatever you decide, I suggest you do so in writing. Do it in two sections: one that defines your uniform (or declares that your crew does not have a uni) and another that defines when it should be worn. That will be one less thing you have to explain to newbies.

Wait a minute! It was Galaxy Quest with the scrambled teleport. Regarding your boys, tell #1 not to worry. Everyone knows SMs sons have it the worst. Besides, these are guys you said you can trust and respect, not some stooges on the Internet.

Wait a minute! It was Galaxy Quest with the scrambled teleport. Regarding your boys, tell #1 not to worry. Everyone knows SMs sons have it the worst. Besides, these are guys you said you can trust and respect, not some stooges on the Internet.

I figure the age shift has something to do with it. These kids are also exposed to an increasing number of ceremonies (band/sports banquets, commencement, military, etc ...) adding more to the list gets old. Also many (most?) kids in the average successful crew have had non-boy scout experiences. So they come with different notions of what proper ceremonies are. I think that's also where National may be getting it wrong. The teach scouters that venturing is a tool to retain older boys. That's how my UC and DE explained it to me. Although that may be true for some boys who have done the troop thing to the max, I quickly learned that the program worked best for those boys who wanted to introduce their friends to awesome activities that they were missing out on because they never were in a troop. In other words, it gives boys the opportunity to share their scouting skills to youth who have never had a chance to learn them. So when it comes fo talking about centuring to troop leaders, my preference is that the pros talk less about retention (which may or may not happen) and more about empowering (which is more likely to happen) of older boys as they hey bring some aspects of scouting to their friends.

Emb, my use of "team" is what you refer to as "crew committees." What I was referring to was the adult committee of the unit (as the rest of scouting understands it). Obviously, if your youth are sucessfully pulling together committees and working the program, an MC from the troop transferring to the crew might find himself scratching his head wondering what to do. My poor CC, when she got this gig had to be disavowed of the notion that "approve the crew activities" meant that the committee had an up-or-down vote on every detail of each item they put on the calendar!

Sit and watch? Yeah, that's wrong. They should focus on getting the coffee pot percolating, arguing over the price of tea in Maurutania, and discussing what program items might need their help that weekend and how they should support them. If a dad wants to help, he may ask to join in IMHO, but if the boys ain't crying no problem. If they are, let them know the fly's optional.

Troop has a fly or two. I try to limit the times when they feel compelled to use it. Sometimes an SM may override. But generally we only put it up if the boys think they'll need it. Crew has tarp, rope, bailer twine and bungee cords. (All mine.) That plus any trees in the vicinity and they may have a dining fly if they chose to grab that gear and so occupy their time. When they don't use the tarp I crawl between it's folds instead of bothering with a tent. Some of the boys are starting to model that "tent optional" behavior.

I've insisted that the scout and venturer have a permanent record of which he is the sole proprietor in which he can collect signatures from his PL and other designated leaders who can attest to his/her demonstration of scout skills. That is the primary record. Anything else is secondary backup. If a kindly MC decides to track advancement on Troopmaster thats fine, but there should be something that travels with the boy. Something he can pull up without any assistance. Something that he can crack open in the middle of the wilderness, because that's where the best SM conferences happen anyway. It also would be handy if some instructions on the skills were with the record. Something that he can use when nobody is around to EDGE him into learning the skills -- something like a handy-book. Hmmmm ....

Jambalaya! Love it. (For a name but especially as a meal.)

JM - I would also emphasize what I think was the toughest point for my troop adults to get their heads around: Patrol Method is not used in venturing. That is, "patrols" are more ad-hoc or activity specific (e.g., Ski Bums, Seabase Team, Philmont Crew, Blood Drive Staff) and we encourage some youth to take the lead on each and a youth can participate on more than one team. For my sanity, I've tried to encourage our officers to take on a uniform theme for a few months at a time. They've completely ignored me! Crew committees are also generally less structured. They boil down to a bunch of people who brainstorm (or go through a checklist called a "program capability inventory") and provide a list of what they can offer to the youth "in house." Again, youth are free to work outside of those lists. It just means a few more phone calls. I think for some boys, this is the biggest selling point; and for others, the biggest deciding factor in *not* joining. A lot of guys in our troop prefer the patrol structure.