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There is nothing wrong with sharing opening ceremonies. That's not the same as visiting the troop. It does mean your den chief will miss his troop meeting, unless he's from a different troop!

Just quized the tiger and bear great nephews who are visiting this week. They have no more problem understanding BS motto, oath, and law than does my average tenderfoot scout. Being preacher's kids, they might have a few compliance issues This age-appropriate business is one of my pet peeves. I find kids much more capable than we give them credit. Like venturing ... I don't see youth having a problem with the oath changing. They would have a problem with the awards and recognition changing. Especially they would have a problem with being placed in ranks. And honestly, it's no more complicated than those stupid belt loops.

There's nothing to say it won't have an impact, but I think a public commitment on their part to serve other youth organizations that require parents to support homosexuals as potential leaders over their youth would be more productive.

I don't think the cupcake GS programs (search the posts of other members to get what I'm talking about) will see a mass exodus to our kind of program until we have adult females who buy into the year-round outdoor program. It's one thing to send little junior into the capable hands of Mr./Mrs. CampinSnow it's another thing to become that person to fulfill that need! Right now I can count on my hand the women in my council who will camp in December snows with only what they hiked in on their backs for a few miles. Intrepid is not what most folks look for in a female leader, but that's what female green bar patrols will need if they are to approach the kind of vision that we push on our boys. At the same time, we need moms or big sisters with that knack for nurturing middle school girls and keeping us guys from hitting the panic button!

'Skip, is the UK policy local option? If an openly homosexual adult was excluded from a unit for that sole reason, would your national leaders support the adult's desire to be part of that unit, or the unit's desire to set it's own membership standard?

Hi CK, I'm a pretty disorganized Advisor, so I can relate to wanting an organized assistant you can trust. I also keep my committee at a distance. I figure the best you can do is ask the charter org rep what he was thinking. The second thing is to understand the troop finances better. Has the committee been too controlling? Have they been obligating the troop to a lot of oversight? For programs that the boys aren't interested in? Have the SM's boys taken all the leadership positions? Finally, pay attention to your boys. If they are having fun and going on outings, all this other stuff will fall by the wayside,

So skeptic, are you suggesting that national should turn YPT guidance over to the CO? Because the bigotry against us (presumably heterosexual) male advisors comes to the fore every time the girls in the crew want us to take them in the big woods overnight. Because of strong prejudices against us, they require us to have a female adult along! It doesn't matter how much the CO trusts me and the other great dads in my unit to treat the ladies like they were our very own daughters. National policies must be followed. Just wait until the media gets a hold of this one ... I did use the gist of the above paragraph in a response today. I let you know if the counter to it is any good.

Oh, about the coed thing ... There will be some families that would like the one-stop-shop. (I certainly did with venturing.) But plenty of other families will do it the way their folks did. The'll shuttle their boys and girls to their respective unisex units. I figure only a steep rise in gas prices may change that equation.

SP, as long as you are above board with the superintendent, they will probably find a way to help you promote that passes legal muster. Our school district allows groups to promote via fliers and such so long as a disclaimer is at the bottom "this activity is not endorsed or supported by the school district." This gives me the latitude to put that our crew is chartered by a local church, which is a real plus for most parents in our community.

If your troop is doing all of the positive things above, then you need to ask yourself "what are Eagles here for?" We just told these boys they are "marked men". That they will be called upon to do unique things in our community and for our country. So, a boy gets his bird, then what is it time for? Junior firefighter, ROTC, EMT? Counselor for the church youth group? A mission needs to deliver medical supplies to a village accessible only by foot? The conservation researcher needs volunteers to help with a year round survey of game lands? The high school sports team is looking for captains with real leadership skills? The start-up troop down the road needs some youth leadership to get rolling? And, your troop could stand to have a 10th ASM/JASM? Based on everything we've taught him, an Eagle will look to serve the greatest need that could use his talents. It's unlikely that he'll stick around and do what a bunch of 1st class scouts are doing well enough on their own.

Note that boy scheduling can be rough. Miscommunicated dates unrealized schedules, unavailable adults are par for the course. The grass isn't greener. Two many years of frustrated schedules, and parents do ask for adults to take charge. Then they realize the boys aren't having enough input and responsibility, and they cycle back.

Wearing a BSA uniform usually means you are attending a BSA activity. If the BSA activity meets the restrictions above than there can be no alcohol present. We're not talking about "usual" here. We're talking about needing to make a call (or replenish a canteen) and the SM needing to show some accountability by avoiding one-on-one contact. Obviously you need to respect any state laws, or bar rules!

Venturing committees at different councils constantly think of different ways to promote their program. Not a fan of the time-share sales pitch approach. We Anyway the distinctive activities are go-carts and pistols, but that's not what really sells the program to boys. It's the "who" as much as the "what". The chance to hit a tougher hike at Philmont one last time was a big draw for some boys aging out of the troop. Fellowship with girl friends was a big draw for some. The ability to create an activity to attract boys who aren't into troop life was a big deal. It's interesting how only a few younger boys are looking forward to joining the crew.

Welcome to the forums. It's a fun place for thinking things through. Now for an opinion from the beer distributor's son: There is absolutely nothing wrong with a scout walking up to a bar and getting a soft drink. In fact training a boy that he can go to a social venue and not necessarily order alcohol is a good thing. (E.g., Seabase Bahamas, the boys are expected to refill their water bottles from the bartenders at the local resorts.) You should expect adult leaders to not drink alcohol when in their official capacity with the boys. Uniforms are completely irrelevant. You certainly wouldn't ask an adult to remove his if he's sitting at a stool after a meeting making sure boys get their rides home. That said, out of respect for parents, you want to make sure that if you hold a scouting function there, the boys have a place where alcohol (including advertisements for it) is out of sight. Also discuss this with the bar-tender. The club may have rules about non-members at the bar, and you want to respect those.

I'm on the pro- side of this one. At least for venturers ... My venturers stink at memorization. The always need "cheat sheets" when it comes time to say the oath in public. We work closely with our sister troop. It would be nice to have more than just the outdoor code in common. In another Crew with a close relationship to their troop, they go about memorizing the scout oath and law anyway. Don't get me wrong, I *like* the venturing oath and code.(Having been a late teen once upon a time, I get the developmentally appropriate word choice.) But, my youth could care less. If Tico gets the average youth on the national youth cabinet, it may be a done deal. The venturers I've met don't have a chip on their shoulder about needing to "be an entirely different program" from Boy Scouts. From their perspective, saving time reciting 3 different oaths during joint activities translates into dismissal from flag two minutes earlier! In fact, I would not be surprised if a seasoned venturer brought gave him the idea.

in the history of man there has only been one person who lived without sin and he has been dead for almost 2000 years. Correction, dead for 0.01 years by all first century accounts. The rest of the time I suspect he's been helping the citizens of Sodom make their case on Judgment Day.

Considering my tent is no more than 2.5 feet high ...

I could see the UoS course now: "Gaydar Operations." Horizon, I'm sorry my word choice got up your craw. There are reasons for it, which I won't belabor here. Suffice it to say that there's trouble on both sides of the issue. Frankly, there will never be an operations manual on how to screen your parents for leadership roles. There's the application, reference checks, and that's it. I think we owe it to our fellow leaders to let them know what they may be up against as we learn of any issues that may disqualify them. We need to decide how we would act, and be honest and up front about that. But I certainly am not about to discuss with anyone besides my COR any standard operation procedure. As much as I don't like years-after-the-fact calls from the SE, I hate more adding to the collection of unwritten rules folks expect us to follow.

Yep, this group needs a little more guidance. I personally don't care about if an adult's on the roster, I would probably use their guest status as a carrot. Some thing like: "PLs, after the meal, I'm asking Mr. DeanRx to walk around your sights and inspect for cleanliness. At campfire/flags we'll gather and review any problems he saw. Tidest partrol gets a cup of candy coated almonds from my personal stash." I definitely ask adults if there is anything they'd like to help the boys learn and announce to the boys a time and location. (Usally someplace within earshot so I can still enjoy my coffee and knot puzzle ) Again, I'm not looking for a patch on someone's sleeve. Just a Person willing to use his time. [insert vitriolic diatribe re: EDGE from my other posts here] Understand that the boy may not be as selfish has it sounds. He might be saying "your helping me by letting me help you." The PLs need to learn to set aside time during the day to review progress. Things can't always be signed off the minute they're done, but there should be a moment, say after dinner, that the PL can commit to. That way, he's nearby to supervise KP. It sounds like the older boys are gearing up for some high adventure. So this may be the way things will be for quite a few campouts. Meet with SM, and see how things improve. Every ASM has his/her style. You will need to figure out how you can work with the one you've got!

I can see a lot of kids (i.e. mine) scrambling to get homework done Sunday PM. Otherwise, great plan.

A little advice from the "seen it more times than I'd care to and am still talking to boys years later over it" section. Don't count chickens. Touch base regularly with the senior boys. Ask, "What did you do before? What should we keep doing? What should we ditch?" Respect those parents in the best way you can. Find high ground. Walk it. Like I mentioned in the other thread. If they boys do the talking, it will save you a lot of wasted words. Your son especially is studying your reactions. He might not understand why you put up with people who don't want you around, or why you push certain issues and not others. You don't owe him any explanation now, but in a couple years, he'll ask to reflect on it. By the time my oldest asked me, I had already time to look back boil it down for him (or anyone else for that matter) to one thing: "Highest respect to whoever does the work. Polite nods to whoever talks about it." Your personal prime directive may be a little different. But consider yourself in a fishbowl, and you're son will want to hear about it one day.

I if she would be interested in the trail to a Venturing silver award, I'm sure there would be an advisor who would welcome her to the "dark side." In fact, I might have the number of one in the Pittsburgh area ....

... scout wanting to ... signed off on by our SM ... That's all your committee needs to know. Don't tell the SM to steer clear of anything! This is why I never ask someone for a rule. They'll make one up for you. And for the love of all that is right and good about troop committees, don't you be one of those rule-fabricators! Your ship needs no barnacles on its hull!

... scout wanting to ... signed off on by our SM ... That's all your committee needs to know. Don't tell the SM to steer clear of anything! This is why I never ask someone for a rule. They'll make one up for you. And for the love of all that is right and good about troop committees, don't you be one of those rule-fabricators! Your ship needs no barnacles on its hull!

Have you met with your PLs? Have they told you what they would like to do? Do they understand the cost of the program they are asking for? You may want to consider having your SPL join you at committee meetings. Parents need to hear from their boys. It needs to be about the boys. What does your charter org rep say?