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Beardad, they aren't mutually exclusive, both demand a good bit of the boy's time and require him to set priorities. Our athlete PLs and SPLs have to do a lot of extra communicating because we expect them to make sure the troop runs smoothly in their absence. Some athletes count the cost and do not run for SPL as a result. On the flip side, many of our school's team captains are seasoned PLs.

So instead of re-writing national policy for 50,000 Eagles annually, could local councils not solve this by having our own little TARP fund for failed EPs? I'm not talking about another big, hairy program here, but just make it known among council and district advancement and Eagle committee folks that before a failed project becomes a big issue, resources are available to square the deal with the beneficiary. This is a good indication that your council's EPs are getting a little too big for their britches. You don't need TARP equivalents for 50 hour projects that might require two week's fundraising at the most. When a project gets so big that a boy/parent is afraid of the slightest misstep or delay, we no longer have a learning experience. Mom, you're doing a great job trying to help a frustrated son, but I would suggest he consider the following options: 1. Delay the project. Other SPLs have done that, even folding their project into a troop weekend activity. 2. Rescale the project so that the cost is something you all can absorb if fundraising falls flat. 3. Accelerate fundraising.

I think it's great to give your SE a call with any issue that you may have. Calling the police as well when the context doesn't warrant it could be hazardous. You don't bring in drug-sniffing canines if you find a cigarette box in your boy's waste paper basket, do you?

I ended my carrier as a scout planning 50 miler after earning Eagle. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Not sure I would have wanted it as an advancement requirement. My gut tells me that we have a cart-before-the-horse problem. One way to get boys doing more leadership-type activities, is to help them get Eagle out of the way sooner. If more boys earn their birds by age 16 (has happened in the past), they would be free to accomplish a wider variety of service and leadership.

2c: Playing the Devil's Advocate here. Where do you guys find the exemption if the person providing the porn is a youth? Let me first make clear that I see no devil needing advocating for in the original post. Boy had obscene material of unspecified provenance. Leader handled it appropriately. That he is second guessing himself shows that he is handling it concienciously. I brought up the scenario to show that the OP was on the "safe" end of the continuum. There is no exemption. Why? Because a young predator could use that in seeking retribution against us for calling the authorities. Or a belligerent youth could use it as a shield to justify his desire for he and his buddies to gawk at someone else's spouse. But there is a common sense understanding that the context in which they occur can lead one to conclude that a behavior is not predatory and need to be dealt with on a leader/parent level. No amount of calling authorities will remedy the situation. The same behavior in a different context (the hair-raising-on-the-back-of-your-neck context) would compel you to call for help, because you know that no troop discipline or parental involvement will be sufficient to prevent great harm.

Camp check-in. It's a mess. Don't worry be happy. We do patrol cooking at summer camp, But, I do like that open lunch period.

Our crew has had similar issues, although younger sibs were reasonably mature. I made a compomrise, that a younger sib could come along so long as the parents came as well with the very clear understanding that HS students didn't not shell out $ to come all this way from home to be babysitterts. Moreover, if you are helping me with the two-deep aspects of the tour, the other parent has to be available for little sis/bro. So far this has worked out well.

Every year we may get one or two. It often is "friend driven"! But boys can also be very aware of the emphasis on the different methods. Going to an Eagle CoH of a boy who transferred quite a few years ago. Since his SMC, we had a chance to reflect as to why on several occasions. His older brother's troop was extremely adult led. As a result, they did some neat things (e.g., massive gateways to the troop site at summer camp), but also demanded a lot of compliance from the boys. (I could see this kid having huge issues with that.) He really appreciated how we put the boys at the center of the decision-making process. He felt the adults had his best interest at heart - even when we were coming down on him for some misdeed. It wasn't so important that the program didn't match his interests entirely (e.g., we backpacked a lot, he didn't). Now I'm not sure how much his parents were involved in the decision, but they were willing to adapt to the way we did things. It wasn't a matter of "no matter where you go, there you are." So I don't think it was for any adult disagreement. They saw their boy wasn't fitting in, so they helped him find a troop that he liked.

Don't sweat the class b's, they won't slow recruiting. The boys will just have fewer pockets in which to put the ladies phone #s!

I have related mine in other posts, and care not to rehash. We celebrate a big enough split tomorrow!

If an adult was distributing the videos, that would be actionable. Not against the boy, but against the purveyor. If a scout was sharing with his buddies, that would not. Even if a scout was showing the stuff to younger scouts, it would be a huge mess for you, but not necessarily anything to report up the line. Obviously, the younger boys' parents should be informed. If a scout was showing predatory behavior, (e.g., luring younger boys for the purposes of molestation), you're in over your head. Call the SE and police. If it's like you describe (boy collecting his own personal stash, brings it to camp, maybe compares notes with his buddy), then you did the right thing. If not calling in the authorities, it wouldn't hurt to let your committee chair know you had a situation and how you dealt with it.

[way off topic, but can't resist] gsdad, on the bus this AM a lady was wearing a t-shirt that said "Girl Scouts: The Promised Land". Neat coincidence, huh? 2C, is the box black to collect sun? I've used camp showers that were essentially solar collectors. Worked fine if you could find a place out of the shade!

I was appointed to be a "paper advisor", but hate paperwork, so decided to give the real thing a go. I'd like to think it's been a benefit to all parties involved, but you'd have to ask around when I'm not in the room. Some people are just too nice!!! My opinion: if you do enroll remote scouts, do whatever it takes to integrate them into the troop. Skype everyone in for a couple of minutes each week. Share pictures of what y'all have been up to. Try planning a road trip to a central location (NASCAR races, air shows, or baseball games offer plenty of opportunities.) Let the remote scouts know they are vital to your troops existence in more than just a "boy scouts love paperwork" kind of way. In other words, take the BS out of the BS of A.

The question is "which One scout has the most impact of positive growth on the whole troop?". My troop had 96 scouts when I retired as SM. Which "one"? That's not a question we can answer without reviewing the careers (formal and informal) of all 96 scouts. For all I know, the scout who was 2nd class at 18 and only held APL is responsible for recruiting half your boys and mentoring your most recent PLs! He might have never taught an ILST, but he was always there with fireside advice for any boys who wanted it. I agree with jb, train everyone who will listen to be PL.

One more thing (aside from autocorrect not letting me spell Kodiak!). A lot of crews operate closely with troops. This is because they share leadership. We've already discussed how too close can be bad (e.g., girl lead ... almost as bad as adult lead.) but most crews have a reasonable working relationship. For example, one crew I know will camp in the vicinity of their partner troop's summer camp and meet them for Wednesday night dinner. In these situations, younger scouts have working relationships with venturers. They also see SMs and CAs working closely together. The boys almost expect leadership training to include something about venturing. A 13 year old boy might benefit from what a 17 year old young woman has learned from observing her brother's patrol. On the other hand, venturers who tend to avoid structure (and they are many) could stand a little retraining in how to build a team.

The harsh reality about rural life is you have more folks pulling double shifts to get by. The good news is you probably have good connections and don't have to go far to camp. Okay, your heart and soul is clearly in the pack. Be sure that everybody involved (including paper committee) know that their position is unsustianable and will have to change. Pray for the right person to step up. The troop should focus on giving those boys a great program, MT gave you the references that I would give you. But the real challenge is to not "do for" the boys so much as "do with". This is the same challenge every parent crossing over from cubs has. How does this play out with three boy scouts? Some ideas based on what you've described: Equipment: make sure the boys go with your leaders to collect any troop equipment if you find it. Make sure they are part of inventorying equipment. If you denied to make purchases, have the boys decide what should be the priority and how they will fund raise for it. Advancement: don't worry about MBs except for what the boys may have earned at camp. Focus on making sure the boys learn 1st class skills. They are all in the handbook, which is really designed for a first year scout to learn from. You don't have to teach everything in the order in the book, I suggest whatever the dad's are best at, teach first. most troop take a year to present opportunities for each of the requirements from tenderfoot to first class, Until you get more boys, you may go faster, but just keep the boys practicing those skills. MB counselors: it sounds like your starting from scratch. Here's the good news, you only have three boys which means at most you only have to find three at outsells at a time. The boys can be part of this search. Ask them what MB they want to work on, and ask them who they think they'd like to teach it. Then they can call that person and ask him or her if she would like to meet with them and the SM. At that meeting, SM gives the counselor the application and asks him to sign up so these and other boys can use him or her as a resource in the future. And like I said before: camp and hike, camp and hike, camp and hike. Is there property next to the school ball field? Find out who owns it and prepare to set up camp there in the fall after football games. On the parade routes, is there a good place to camp? Have them set up there the night before or after. Literally, the boys could backpack the parade route if they wanted!

PL, because it's one position that more than one boy holds at a time. Make sure it is fully trained and you'll have as many trained leaders as you have patrols. Fully training another position will only get you one trained leader! Most SPLs come from the ranks of PLs so puttingmyoour resources into training that pool should get you qualified personell for SPL and ASPL.

Whine away, it might help us figure something out. The crux of my problem (based on trying this venturing thing for only six years and wearing other hats in the process), is twofold: Me and another scouter took Kodak instructor training, but allocating that one week vacation time for it has been very difficult. The you in my crew are not leadership training junkies. So I thought this would be a stealthy way to fit it in. I was wrong. HS and college schedules are nasty things to try and work around. Most venturers are really not trek ready. At our area meetings most are in cabins. Their leaders are openly critical of youth who would plan late night outdoor activities in cool spring weather. Evidently they haven't seen the pictures on the brochures. Some of their advisors are sensitive to this and trying to change it in "baby steps". Whatever. I do the opposite and have turned off a few youth in the process, so I won't judge. But, that leaves us with youth who are more suited for NAYLE or WB than for Kodiak.

We have to pony up a form fee. Those add up. I think it has to do with insurance negotiating lower exam fees. I think most folks with kids have a hard time keeping ahead of the paperwork. Unless you're a scouting pro, that kind of thing is not routine. Definitely I tell my crew to keep their originals and only turn in copiers. Keep in mind half of them are in two units and some years they are more active with one than the other, so I always try to return copies. It's a bit of a hassle recollecting them, but I figure the chances of me catching a need-to-know update (new med, seafood allergy, physical restriction, etc ...) is higher if I do that.

I too think the name-changing is so much wasted effort. You have instructors who already have their way of saying things, and no venturer is going to be scarred being in a patrol and learning the 12 points. It reminds me of when an IT consultant came in and renamed some variables for clarity. It made things clear to him, but I've been living with the down-stream consequqnces ever since. On the flip-side I don't see any boy scout being harmed by being in a team and having to listen to the venturing oath.

U just said WB aw not suitable for a 20 y.o. NYLT is geared for a younger demographic (boys and girls, because so far nobody has relayed any reports where the coed/mixed program environment didn't work), so what to do with that 19 yo ASM or 17 yo JASM who is itching for a trek wants to do something of leadership training and only has one week to spare? Kodak seems like an ideal option. I'm not about to make a kid push extra paperwork to join a crew just so he could take a course. FWIW, I was advising a council ILSC course and the young ladies there were very much interested in WB. Rather than pointing them to NYLT, I suggested they hold office for a year or two and actually lead. Then, as their experience grew, they would be better position to choose a course that suits them

Depends on the nature of the injury and urgency. The rescue moves that you describe had the notion of moving someone from distances on par with from a house to the sidewalk. A quarter mile wasn't part of the specs! Longer distances? Make a crutch! Or a stretcher. Those folding camp chairs, and four guys can help haul a body a good stretch.

Bounce it off your son, he will have some idea of how things should work out. Ask for someone who has done bearings before who has a reputation for moving things along. If your son gives you a time limit, you need someone trustworthy who'll hold to that.

I think SMs sometimes feel like they have to convert a bunch of adults when really the only adults they need to convert are the few who are willing to hike eight miles into back country with them and their boys. PLs and SPLs, they need someone to help them get a vision for what they should do. ILST helps, but riding shotgun on the way back from camp with an SM or ASM for a sounding board is really really important. Then you don't sweat small stuff like the AC stepping out of line. Tell the CC that you would rather see things done differently and move on. If he or she passes the message along, fine. If not train your boys on how to respectfully disagree. Train the young ones to set high standards for themselves. Tech them to read the book, show the book, do the book (even if it doesn't spell something catchy like other inferior methods).

t61, Thanks for your service. I am almost in the same situation as you but for different reasons. My best parents (moms mostly) don't see themselves as leaders and aren't stepping up on crew committee. This pattern will have to change or the crew will fold in a couple of years. For your troop, do your best to enable the SM and ASM to go camping and hiking with the boys every month. All the other stuff falls into place if your boys can do that. Parades: find them, march in them. Is your CO a church? Talk to every young man (possibly young woman) about their interest in heading up a special ministry. Think out of the box. Have your boys plan a fall recruiting day for the troop. They go to school and hold an assembly demonstrating the stuff hey learned at camp. Maybe they set up camp in the playground.