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Really CC? Struggle sessions vs. singing? It's time for a word from the "A song from every boy and a big shiny brass whistle for every lifeguard" camp. In a related thread, I've already discussed how leaving your stuff behind is a heinous offense to your troop, your country, and your momma. Won't go there again. Let's consider the law of salvage. 'Fish rescues a boy's imperiled vessel. He has rights to a salvage fee. (Any of you who've actually had someone recover your boat after a flood or storm should know this.) By rights, he can claim recompense proportionate to the value of the property recovered plus his time and effort in recovery. But, he's a scout, so instead he asks for nothing other than a song! Why? Because cheerful thrifty and friendly are more fun than "here's your knife kid, you owe me one." Later on when the boy's in front of a salvor bartering for his boat, he might be able to knock down the fee a little by replying, "I'm short on cash, but I know this really cool song that I learned for occasions just like these!" And yes, as an adult I had to sing for my gear. I did it loudly, proudly, and somewhat in tune. (They haven't asked me to sing since. ) I was greatful to burn the calories and not lose weight from my wallet. In short, if it's not fun (for everyone including the scout), stop it. Otherwise, carry on. But please don't delude yourself into thinking you're adhering more tightly to the twelve points by not calling out for a song from myself or that slacker scout!

Anybody use cast aluminum for a box? how lightweight can a composite material be?

I couldn't imagine it being any worse than sending a text saying: " A scout died in accident at camp - we'll contact you later." All that message does is create a ton of anguish and worry. I don't have to imagine. I can tell you that all the cell phones in the troop (including one with the FD dispatcher on speed dial) could not outrun the state trooper showing up at that parent's door. Simply put, the names of the dead or injured are not broadcasted until the families of the afflicted are notified. The SM couldn't hazard a guess until I (the trailing car) showed up, then we went over the roster, and he took the siblings of any who would have been in that car to the hospital. He was not permitted to call us with any info until the police were certain that next of kin were at the coroner confirming the identification of the scout. Even moms of injured boys were not told of the fatality until they were in the ER with their boy. All of the texts and calls in the interim (except to the CC) were useless rumors which I did not repeat to the next caller. The boys who had cell phones did not want them on. Point is, moms, when it's your kid, folks will do their best to make sure you're the first to know. When it's not, the most you can expect is general info. We do that for belly aches so that we have that discipline down for dehydration, broken bones, and worse.

Learn your gifts. Excersize those. Learn other folk's gifts, ask them to use those to do the jobs ypu're not good at.

What don't they do? Winter camping.

Just thinking how buff I'd be by now if only our troop did ...

There already is a badge for scouting for boys. It's called First Class Rank! What you are talking about is a BS Beurarcracy badge! Leave it to the earner to decide what the "BS" stands for. That could even be requirement 9b!

Scouting in this context has served as a yard-stick. It gave a boy a fairly simple "test" of his level of responsibility for his gear. Highly responsible (the end of the stick) would have been all gear returned to home and promptly placed in its rightful location. Completely irresponsible (the other end of the stick) would have been all gear set ablaze and left in a dumpster to avoid having to lug it back to the trailer. There are all sorts of marks in between. The convenient "parenting"/"policing" served to point out to the boy which mark along that stick applied to the boy. Thanks Eng61 for providing that useful service. I assure you that there are some parents who don't even do that for us!

She also runs a Crew in town and has invited my son to join. I don't think she would do this if he is at fault and troublesome ... Don't presume that!!! Some advisors take perverse pleasure in assembling crews out of fault-ridden and troublesome youth. Regardless, help your son think through the options. He should pick a unit that offers more than the chance to resume his trail to Eagle with a minimum of effort. For example, if that crew is into dance and theater and has no interest in his desire to climb rocks and shoot guns, he may want to consider another unit -- even if resolving his advancement woes is low on that other unit leader's list.

We lost boys because of how we chose to handle discipline issues. Their parents dragged them to a more adult-led spin-off. I really don't consider it to be troop hopping. It was more a parting of ways. Mostly adult inspired. However, a couple of those boys would like to come back to our troop. Talked to one boy and his mom about it last week. He asked if it would be okay if he would transfer back. I replied "Are you a bad kid?" He said "No sir." I said "I'm sorry, you otta know we only take bad kids."

Laws of natural consequences are handy, as long as they don't bring down the whole unit. Like with LB's son's crew: depending on how serious the backpacking is, the weight of that droid meant that a desert or packet of ice cream was skipped. Certain crews will not hesitate to point that out for the entire 50 miles! Or a dreaded Seabase scenario: A kid who blows off sunscreen warnings in the tropics might need to be hospitalized for second degree burns by the end of day one, leading to his/her unit terminating their cruise with no chance of refund. So, you may want to point out to parents that the discipline that boys show in small matters is what makes future adventures successful. But, the only way to effectively communicate the importance of this is to have the parents come camping with you. For some parents, that may be more trouble than it's worth.

Never heard of anything this extreme. But keep in mind that your side of the story, no matter how much we agree with it, is only one side. The CO may very well take its good old time sorting it all out. Find a troop or a crew where the boy will be supported and challenged.

MomO5, Our council offers a camp experience for venturers http://www.heritagereservation.org/eaglebase/index.php Some crews choose it on the same week that the troop is attending their camp on the opposite side of the lake. My personal preference is for a crew to make their own summer adventure, but that's just me.

Beardad, they aren't mutually exclusive, both demand a good bit of the boy's time and require him to set priorities. Our athlete PLs and SPLs have to do a lot of extra communicating because we expect them to make sure the troop runs smoothly in their absence. Some athletes count the cost and do not run for SPL as a result. On the flip side, many of our school's team captains are seasoned PLs.

So instead of re-writing national policy for 50,000 Eagles annually, could local councils not solve this by having our own little TARP fund for failed EPs? I'm not talking about another big, hairy program here, but just make it known among council and district advancement and Eagle committee folks that before a failed project becomes a big issue, resources are available to square the deal with the beneficiary. This is a good indication that your council's EPs are getting a little too big for their britches. You don't need TARP equivalents for 50 hour projects that might require two week's fundraising at the most. When a project gets so big that a boy/parent is afraid of the slightest misstep or delay, we no longer have a learning experience. Mom, you're doing a great job trying to help a frustrated son, but I would suggest he consider the following options: 1. Delay the project. Other SPLs have done that, even folding their project into a troop weekend activity. 2. Rescale the project so that the cost is something you all can absorb if fundraising falls flat. 3. Accelerate fundraising.

I think it's great to give your SE a call with any issue that you may have. Calling the police as well when the context doesn't warrant it could be hazardous. You don't bring in drug-sniffing canines if you find a cigarette box in your boy's waste paper basket, do you?

I ended my carrier as a scout planning 50 miler after earning Eagle. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Not sure I would have wanted it as an advancement requirement. My gut tells me that we have a cart-before-the-horse problem. One way to get boys doing more leadership-type activities, is to help them get Eagle out of the way sooner. If more boys earn their birds by age 16 (has happened in the past), they would be free to accomplish a wider variety of service and leadership.

2c: Playing the Devil's Advocate here. Where do you guys find the exemption if the person providing the porn is a youth? Let me first make clear that I see no devil needing advocating for in the original post. Boy had obscene material of unspecified provenance. Leader handled it appropriately. That he is second guessing himself shows that he is handling it concienciously. I brought up the scenario to show that the OP was on the "safe" end of the continuum. There is no exemption. Why? Because a young predator could use that in seeking retribution against us for calling the authorities. Or a belligerent youth could use it as a shield to justify his desire for he and his buddies to gawk at someone else's spouse. But there is a common sense understanding that the context in which they occur can lead one to conclude that a behavior is not predatory and need to be dealt with on a leader/parent level. No amount of calling authorities will remedy the situation. The same behavior in a different context (the hair-raising-on-the-back-of-your-neck context) would compel you to call for help, because you know that no troop discipline or parental involvement will be sufficient to prevent great harm.

Camp check-in. It's a mess. Don't worry be happy. We do patrol cooking at summer camp, But, I do like that open lunch period.

Our crew has had similar issues, although younger sibs were reasonably mature. I made a compomrise, that a younger sib could come along so long as the parents came as well with the very clear understanding that HS students didn't not shell out $ to come all this way from home to be babysitterts. Moreover, if you are helping me with the two-deep aspects of the tour, the other parent has to be available for little sis/bro. So far this has worked out well.

Every year we may get one or two. It often is "friend driven"! But boys can also be very aware of the emphasis on the different methods. Going to an Eagle CoH of a boy who transferred quite a few years ago. Since his SMC, we had a chance to reflect as to why on several occasions. His older brother's troop was extremely adult led. As a result, they did some neat things (e.g., massive gateways to the troop site at summer camp), but also demanded a lot of compliance from the boys. (I could see this kid having huge issues with that.) He really appreciated how we put the boys at the center of the decision-making process. He felt the adults had his best interest at heart - even when we were coming down on him for some misdeed. It wasn't so important that the program didn't match his interests entirely (e.g., we backpacked a lot, he didn't). Now I'm not sure how much his parents were involved in the decision, but they were willing to adapt to the way we did things. It wasn't a matter of "no matter where you go, there you are." So I don't think it was for any adult disagreement. They saw their boy wasn't fitting in, so they helped him find a troop that he liked.

Don't sweat the class b's, they won't slow recruiting. The boys will just have fewer pockets in which to put the ladies phone #s!

I have related mine in other posts, and care not to rehash. We celebrate a big enough split tomorrow!

If an adult was distributing the videos, that would be actionable. Not against the boy, but against the purveyor. If a scout was sharing with his buddies, that would not. Even if a scout was showing the stuff to younger scouts, it would be a huge mess for you, but not necessarily anything to report up the line. Obviously, the younger boys' parents should be informed. If a scout was showing predatory behavior, (e.g., luring younger boys for the purposes of molestation), you're in over your head. Call the SE and police. If it's like you describe (boy collecting his own personal stash, brings it to camp, maybe compares notes with his buddy), then you did the right thing. If not calling in the authorities, it wouldn't hurt to let your committee chair know you had a situation and how you dealt with it.

[way off topic, but can't resist] gsdad, on the bus this AM a lady was wearing a t-shirt that said "Girl Scouts: The Promised Land". Neat coincidence, huh? 2C, is the box black to collect sun? I've used camp showers that were essentially solar collectors. Worked fine if you could find a place out of the shade!