qwazse

Hey a_e, welcome to the forums! My guess is someone felt sorry for the other youth having to move, didn't trust that a unit where he was going would help with continuity, and figured they should cut him a break. Unfortunately, anytime adults cut corners like this, they usually do not consider how it makes their other youth feel. So, yes, you should ask the SM for a conference and let him know how you feel about this situation. Depending on how much adult hemming and hawing you can stomach, you can ask the advancement chair to be in on the conference. If there was nothing else that the boy did before becoming ASPL (e.g. an SM-assigned service project), then you can explain how demoralized you feel. I'd skip the drama about asking to repeal the rank.. We're talking about 2 months on the clock, and maybe the committee didn't think they'd be able to arrange a BOR in July. Lame, I know, but again from an Old Fart's perspective, sometimes 8 weeks in the summer doesn't mean as much. I mentioned to a parent in another thread that in high school, my best friends were the ones who called me on the carpet for getting away with something. It's time for you to be a "best friend" and tell him that you think what he did was wrong, and even if adults were letting it slide, you think he should have stood up for playing by the rules.. Again, that might not result in a rank being repealed, but a boy might know he's got a friend out there that he can count on for "straight talk" when he needs it.

I take it that 18-20 year olds will still participate as venturers. I'm warming up to the idea of having the older youth in my crew registered as adults. Proper scouting should be preparing these young adults to manage packs and troops (BS and GSUSA) and other youth programs, and getting them to feel the spotlight we're trying to put them in is the first step to them stepping up. It's about time we started treating them as adults. Which is why the independent hiking and camping is such a linchpin to all of this. When you tell a youth he/she can step out like that, you are literally handing them the keys to their own country. Like, SG, I'm not seeing the co-ed thing as a game changer. There are boys who are quite happy to have their "man time." And likewise the girls ask for something similar. The only reason I am okay with extending it to younger ages is that right now it takes a special young woman to come into the program at 14 and find her place among us good-old-boys. There are plenty of those out there, but I feel that more girls were acquainted with us at younger ages, the more "average" young lady would be less intimidated by what we're offering.

Impatient, much?

I'm not sure you're quite at the "95 Thesis" stage yet. I'd dicker with the age designations. There should be a place, as in UK, for a young adult network. APO could fill that on college campuses, venturing is kinda filling that for the non-college-bound of my crew. Somehow, that formal designation needs to be there to distinguish the young-adult scout from the fella who grabs a few cold ones and goes of to the national forest with his/her buddies. But that leads me to the one "opportunity area" which you've omitted ...: (Re)Establishing a culture where the vision of The Pinnacle Scouting Experience is not "high adventure" per se, but Hiking and camping independently with your patrol. Other "big ticket" events must exist to support a boy (and his adult leaders) learning how to do that and taking that "adventurer's swagger" back home to their units. A good example that I hear from many scouters coming back from Philmont is how the rangers address issues with the youth crew leader, NOT the adults. Until that vision is instilled at every program level, ultimate scouting adventures that any determined youth could and should enjoy will continue to be held outside of the auspices of the BSA. I'm not Robert Gates, but that is what I do, and will do in whatever position I hold. Not to disrespect all those other aspirations, Frank. I think most of them are good ideas. But, they are pretty much nail polish, and don't cut to the quick of where scouting needs to be for boys and girls to feel that they are indeed growing into great young men and women.

For a while they sold "all-abouts", shortbread cookies stamped with the GS ideals on them. I really liked those cookies.

I don't think it was scouts who were to be in attendance. It sounds like council representatives (President and SE, maybe?)

Let's forget about the order of operations or what some other counselor does or whatever. Does the counselor seem like a nice enough person, have other scouts earned the badge from him, and will your boy learn from him? If so, do it his way. I'm sure your boy may be discouraged, but the folks in the previous troop were cutting corners. (Making you pay for blue cards is a bad sign.) Have the boy arrange a meeting with the counselor and make a plan for completing the requirements to the counselors' satisfaction.

And girls. Please, everyone, don't forget the girls!

Okay, aside from being aggrieved adults, what can we scouters do? Let me give a gentle suggestion based on personal experience from outside of scouting. When I was in high school, my friends did me the biggest favor in the world by calling me out on something offensive that I did. The guys who really weren't my friends gave me "high fives" for being cool and not getting caught. In the grand scheme of things, the offense really wasn't that great, and there was not much that I could do to change things. But the fact that good people who I cared about told me in no uncertain terms what they thought of my actions helped me to be a better person in the long run. So, the very least you could do is encourage your son and his buddies to tell that other scout how they felt about him getting a 'free pass" on something that was really important to them. They can tell him he doesn't have to do anything to make it right. He probably can't. But that first point of the scout law? It's down at the bottom of the latrine at the moment.

What makes this, and the Disney case, more interesting is that it's people refusing to allow equal stewardship of a corporate charitable trust. On one level that makes perfect sense. Carnegie said, "I'm building libraries." And, in the day no purchaser would say, "I'll buy from your competitor unless you build wildlife preserves instead." A corporate trust would pick it's charities, the consumer would have little say, and that would be that. If they happened to pick a charity that tugged at a consumer's heart strings, they could maybe buy a little good will while the executives jockeyed for golden parachutes. On another level, Amazon promotes itself as "the merchant of everything", so showing it can manage a charitable trust as broad as its customers' interests is merely an extension of that model. The problem is, every customer is bound to be offended by at least one of the interests of some other customer. Of course, BSA blogging about Amazon Smile, as it does about every large revenue source, made it easy for those who oppose its policies to pick their next "soft target." What makes this really interesting: the core business of the corporation is not a focus of attack. For example, Amazon was never petitioned to cease vending What is Marriage?: Man and Woman: A Defense.* Because there is this sense that doing so would smack of limiting commerce as well as freedom of expression. Moving to curb corporate charity, on the other hand, is seen as the ideal field in which to fight a crusade. *P.S. - One of the authors is a relative, so pardon the shameless plug.

@JCM, If I were SM and heard about such shenanigans I would be spitting nails. I would ask my COR to dismiss that ASM. (Chances are he would talk me off of that ledge.) I would call the lodge advisor ashamed and embarrassed by what happened. I would follow his and the chiefs lead about what should be done after that.

While we're on the subject. The Venturing Officers Association are tasked with a council-wide event for this. A local park loans us their "Lazy River" so we can "race" dozens of boats at a time! Went through the walk-through with a couple of officers, and I can hardly wait 'till August!

Yep lots of hats. Some with funny names. A party chair sounds like something you'd set around a table with cake and ice cream! Really, a lot of stuff is made up as we go along. Hopefully some folks out there can give you a few ideas of how they handled some of those tasks.

Welcome to the forums. Thanks for your service to our country. Anymore giving back is just gravy. On behalf of your cubs, thanks for that too!

Also, lest anyone else think this is an irrelevant tangent, Chaplains Aide is a position of responsibility available to boys in a troop. So whatever we learn from the military may apply to us if BSA welcomes the godless into troop life before gays or girls.

Sorry, it only walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. It's not insured like a duck. Call your DE. This sounds like a great service you all are providing to your district. Hope you can keep it flying.

Oh, I'm pretty sure my youth could tell you a few "war stories" about me and the SM! One of the more productive sessions of our Venturing Leader Specific Training is when we bring in youth as a panel for these new advisors and committee members to ask questions of. My point is this, if your best backpacker is an adult, fine let him show you all of his gadgets and gizmos, but maybe a scout or two who hike a lot can shake down their packs as well ... and tell you what they liked and didn't like about local trails, where they'd take cross-overs vs. venture patrols, etc ... If you've seen boys who've done a bang-up job teaching orienteering to first-years at summer camp or a district event, why wouldn't you want them teaching soccer moms and dads? There's no YPT violation having a scout shadow an adult while they try to navigate an open-field course with 20 other people. On other things, like when to call your DE or SE, or how to fill out advancement forms ... sure maybe you need adult doing that. But there's no reason an SPL can't be the master of ceremonies and introduce instructors and keep things going.

Jesus told a parable of a judge who feared neither God nor man. If He thought highly enough of the fella to use him as a simile for the Almighty, I should be in no position to split hairs. Of course, if he had ever been a member of the BSA ... might have to think twice.

The military chaplains that I've known were a breed apart ... working really hard to be all things to all people. Pluralism breaks down on the battlefield. If a Catholic is at death's door with whatever chaplain happens to be in the room, that Chaplain better be prepared to offer last rites, whatever his background. Yes, I would expect an athiest chaplain to pray over my sorry soul. I really don't care what he believes. *I* believe that the Almighty would regard his prayer in spite of his barrel full of doubt. Fact is you never know exactly where a preacher stands with his theology any given day of the week. They're like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. Of course there are times when the lines aren't so blurred. And that's when a chaplain with a less religious bent might come in handy. If a soldier knows there's this guy on base that isn't going to guilt him about not going to church, he might approach him about getting the help he needs.

A question like this was brought up while I was teaching venturing leader specific training. My bottom line: when adults aren't courteous and kind to one another scouts don't want to be there. I repeated, "When adults argue, youth will leave." Your scouters need to apologize to the boys. If they don't do it on the same night because they can't stand to be in the room with one another, Clearly being unreconciled Is hurting them too.

I think it is insulting to some athiests to suggest their opinion about the lack of existence of spirituality constitutes a spiritual belief. I might use it in an apologetic or debate, but it is just plain rude to insist someone give ascent to something beyond mind and body when they are convinced it doesn't exist.