qwazse

I half-way agree with Stosh. Bullying always conjures a long-term, somewhat subtle, behavior in my mind. Probably because I think that's the kind of behavior the average scout can slip into if we don't encourage all of the boys to think first about everyone having fun and being cared for. But I can easily see a kid with conduct disorder very quickly choosing "marks" who are less likely retaliate and attempting acts of sheer brutality. (Speed bullying?) A church-camp setting is just ripe for that kind of thing because Christian community in the American church is more of a thought experiment. In scouting we usually get fair warning about those types because parents know them from school or sports. I suspect some of BP's prep school kids posed as much trouble as boys from the hood. This might have been 2C's situation as well. Kids often fly under the radar until they are forced to reckon with "real world" tasks. The good news is more often than not, when the task at hand is truly real, kids are stellar at supporting the weaker link.

Not everything is amenable to a Socratic solution ... Especially if you are facing down 5 hungry boys!

Because, after all, none of us have ever had a friend who would return to the same watering hole of pain and abuse time after time. I don't whitewash it with my kids. The bait feels pain, the fish feels pain, any nerve-bearing beast conceived feels pain. But, there is a difference between pain and cruelty. Fishing teaches us to be less cruel.

Ditto. But stay positive. Just because things don't come up roses immediately doesn't mean you did the wrong thing. The kid is getting a light shined on a dark spot of his life. It ain't gonna be pretty. And I would suspend him until his mom tells me that he has been showing her the utmost respect for a few weeks. The family has issues that you (and your committee) can't fix. In all this, you need to emphasize that for him to move forward, he needs to act like a 1st class scout. We have a boy like this, but the family worked very hard to give him a set of coping strategies (e.g., leave the room, walk it off, avoid fisticuffs), and the kid has the stones to apologize. Also, in these situations, an SPL may feel guilty for bearing the bad news that got the kid suspended. Keep an ear open about that.

What you are arguing over is documentation. What if all of your boys decided not to go to a BSA facility this year, but they all got comprehensive sports physicals? Or, maybe the practice they go to has a doc that waives his fee for scouts if he can just print pertinent medical info from his database, set aside an evening for each patrol, review and updates each boys status, clears them to participate in whatever, and with parents' consent, prints everything in a binder for you -- with a separate sheet of med schedules for your contingent's health officer? Would you still want national to require you to jot everything down on their form as well, just because whatever you are doing is as strenuous as BSA's training bases?

Did it tonight. SM gave the boys present a paper and pen and said "Give me a list of two patrols." There were some points of contention, but the boys worked it out.

One more question now that I've reviewed your post ... Do you mean the "primary" adult? Or, are you talking the 4th-string driver. Also, what is your average distance to your "insertion" or "extraction" points? If it's just those longer distance trips that are a chronic problem: have a plan B location that doesn't involve transportation. Some of the hikes that I plan, actually involve thinking through with the boys alternate insertion points. Once I did have to fall back on a "Plan C" because of heavy rains the week before.

Thing is Brew, if you factor in a half-dozen vehicles on top of the other dozen needed to haul the boys and gear who show up on time. That's more ruts in the road, and may be the tipping point for any farmer who would let this troop pack on his/her property. You want to know ahead of time how many boys you can accommodate with minimal intrusion on your site. I agree that making this a patrol-managed issue is the way to go. Two meetings prior to the trip, each PL reviews the permission slips then during the meeting sounds off how many will attend, who their drivers will be for each leg of the trip, and if there are any unmet transportation needs. If the PL's can't resolve them on the spot, they have a week to make some calls. The issue gets reviewed next week under "old business."

What a disappointment. Encourage your son to have a servant heart. If he does that, the sash will become secondary. That's the Order in a nutshell. For the rest of you folks who want to warn that there's two sides to every story, I want to say that I've seen our very good lodge make poor administrative decisions. That happens. Sometimes if youth don't step up, and adults have no margin to take up the slack, troops will not have elections. Or, parents will be perplexed. Whatever. We're all learning, I guess. But it takes years for candidate scouts and their units to get over missteps like this.

Another guide might require a different medical form (or none at all). But, the general principle remains the same ... http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...k_factors.aspx

Having a Presbyterian CO, you'd think we'd be required to. But we don't. The troop has had a series of CC's who've moved things along quite nicely. They come with a prepared outline, you may request an item be added to the agenda in advance. There are unwritten rules of decorum. Folks don't speak for more than a minute. (For me this is really, really, hard.) Everybody get's a chance to discuss. We settle on a motion, then if everyone agrees (or, at least, is willing to concede), we move forward. The last crew committee meeting ended in a pissing match years ago, so I said "Don't convene unless the crew president is present." I figured if a youth were in the room, folks would mind their manners. Instead, the CC opted to never hold a meeting! This actually helped the youth take a little more responsibility for their destiny, and MC's volunteered to support when asked, so I was fine with it. I agree that the people who find rules of decorum "stuffy" and/or "pretentious" are often the ones who try to muzzle a member or railroad a decision. However, I have also seen a very clever fellow use the rules to derail an assembly for which he had contempt. So, I don't see such things as the "killer app" for ordering meetings. You still need a moderator who is firm yet compassionate and patient.

Get the CC's (and if possible, COR's) perspective on all of this. If he agrees with the CM, your GF needs to decide how she really wants to serve the pack. Bottom line: we expect scouters to uphold the 5th point of the scout law. That includes use of "please" and not blindsiding fellow scouters.

We print minutes for the committee members to review and approve. We post the minutes on our website for everyone else. (Needless to say, personal information is not recorded in minutes.)

I've stomped and spit nails. Apologized for it shortly thereafter. About half the kids stayed on the advancement track. Telling someone that they are not a first class scout is a positive conversation. You set the bar, watch a kid climb toward it. Like I said earlier, you don't bring up a list of past wrongs. (It sounds like 2c did this.) You lay down expectations of what you want to see, and provide opportunities for a boy to show it.

Well before the event, circulate a permission slip. My SM had a generic one with blanks for activity and departure and return dates and parent's signature and the boys filled it in at the meeting. They then went home. At the bottom of the slip was the parent's signature and a line that says "I can provide transportation for ___ boys (check all that apply) __ to __ from the trip. I do something similar with an online trip for the crew.

Bonjour Dee! Your English surpasses my French! BSA demographics are different than yours (Troops are 11-18 year old males, Crews are 14-20 year old co-eds) which may limit the usefulness of some of our advise. Maybe the Brits among us will give you some age-appropriate objectives. (To be honest, I find that 12-14 age group very scary and am glad all of my children have passed it.) But, where would I start? First, I would talk to my co-leaders and ask what they envision. Who are the adults that will be helping you? Do they have the same concerns as you do? Also, is it possible for you to have the assistance of a Venturer or Rover scout?

I've seen a lot of narcissism, so I have every reason to consider this boy is credible. I hope your CC or someone has the stones to run interference with the parents for you. It's sounds like he's heard your opinion on the specific issues. Definitely no need to go there again. Just remember, there are probably plenty of adults who will waste words on him. All you have to do is point out what needs to appear (more kindness, courtesy, helpfulness, whatever) no excuses. We have a boy who's admittedly antisocial, we make it clear to him that we understand and don't care. His success depends on interacting with people; therefore, we will continue to put him in situations where he must do that. Your scout's success, it seems, depends on him growing some empathy. Lucky for him, your troop has situations where he can do just that.

Y'all can stop talking about us old crows as if we're past tense. I was assigned to one of those "9th patrols." Just got to sing it at a roundtable beading with my three other patrol mates last night. Last month, I loaned all of our props from my WB to a 7th grader who was depicting Poe for her class project. Add that to the "why woodbadge" list.

Well, you could read him "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" ... deadpan ... Just like Edwards did. Or you could tell him what you like to see in a First Class scout (the concept not the patch) ... "Would you be able to demonstrate that kind of character over the next couple of months?" Refer to our discussion of scout spirit. Look, we have bad kids in our troop, but until they at least apologize for and fix the messes they create, they ain't advancing. Don't waste words. Speeches are for the enthusiastic.

So ... how do you interact with youth who quit the BSA vs. youth of the same age who are members? They both said that oath and law once. Let's assume that it wasn't some religious epiphany or denial of citizenship that drove him/her to drop, but it wasn't some extenuating circumstance (relocation financial/family troubles). Scouting - in spite of your best efforts to keep it totally youth led - just cramped his/her style. You see him/her around, or they're still your FB friend ... whatever. What changes in terms of your expectations? What stays the same?