qwazse

Unless those are tarp roofs that the boys set up, they don't count.

At roundtable, I suggested developing youth instructors for SM basic (IOLSC). Talk about an idea being shouted down faster than I could speak it! Evidently since the syllabus requires complete "Train-the-Trainer" for all instructors. Seasoned instructors please comment ...

I always thought names should be more affirmative rather than antithetical. "Young Naturalists Society" would have much nicer ring. Anyway, "belief" or "orientation" are not explicitly criteria for exclusion in these by-laws. So, I think that we're talking apples and oranges.

I took Wilderness First Aid this weekend, and could say something similar (3 youth 12 adults). Only one instructor and assistant; however, both adults. Good fellowship, and it was a pleasure to see an older venturer working on her ranger award between college terms. I would like to coordinate a course in our community involving more youth participants and instructor's assistants.

One "red flag" of excessive adult involvement is creating drama instead of attending to health and safety! It's highly unlikely that every boy in the den is bothered about this. Has any boy outright told you they mind the patch being occluded by the colors? If they haven't read p. 32 yet (thanks for the reference, dedkad), how would they know to ask? But just in case the design was made by a boy, who worked very hard to produce and order the patch himself (maybe paid from his individual scout account ) ... After they've read the reference in their Webelos book, ask them what they think. If there's a consensus of dissent, you could decide to let them buck the system, saying it's a senseless regulation. Some of them might appreciate your advise and apply it to the day some other authority (i.e. parent) hands down a senseless regulation. Or, you could tell them that when they're venturers, their crew can design their own uniform, but packs and troops try to follow the national standards. Then ask them to debate what they think is best for their den to do. If they decide it's important that they bend the rules a little to respect little Johnny's hard work in getting his griffin embroidered, make sure you ask them if there are times when they should not "bend the rules."

It is very very hard to put faith in your youth. It's sometimes hard to put faith in themselves. I had one VP-Program want to try a self-defense course, so I gave her the a number of a consultant who had worked with us before and told her to let him know when we were meeting. She was shocked when he showed up the following meeting night with some pads and mats ready to teach some basic escapes! She thought we would just be "planning" the course. That said, there are numerous times when youth wont make those calls and will let you down. (Sometimes, the first call doesn't work, and they get discourage and quit.) Nobody wants to tell an otherwise decent kid that he/she let the unit down. So, we ask the committee for a few "fail-safes". Don't even realize we're doing it! How to undo all of that? Well, you need to start asking the SM where your boys can get some "opportunities for failure." Maybe call them "high risk - high reward" policy changes.

I find things shift back and forth between where I'd want them to be and where they are ... With the crew, I'm pretty hard and fast. They propose a date and event, then see if a couple of adults are free. Or, they ask us when we can take off work then check their schedules. This makes it rough on committee who might rather schedule an event to their liking. More because they feel non-participant's guilt. I don't see it that way at all because if each of them can see their way free to an event that the others can't once a year ... that's four or five more possible events that would otherwise not be possible. With the troop: bigger numbers, more youth who can't drive, etc ... So coordinating with adults is more essential. More along the lines of what you suggest. Is the SPL in the room with the committee? We haven't been able to make that happen given youth schedules, but most chairs are available to talk with the SPL on meeting nights. Whatever you can do to make it feel like the boys are interacting with the committee rather than having dictates "handed down from on high", will help.

Don't know what you mean. I direct my crew. I set the boundaries for how other adults interact with the youth, and I give the youth (pretty wide) boundaries within which they must operate if they are going to take advantage of my services. My committee is there to support them. I tell them how I would like them to do that. Likewise, it's my SM's troop, and I'm there to assist him. I remind folks who may wish things were different that he's "the guy." Doing "the time." And getting "the work" done. In the next sentence SM Bob refers to "our bylaws and methods". Which implies he's got people. Hopefully each is a good soul who thinks it's "his/her troop" too, but makes sure things are done in a way that suits Bob's style. Sussing out phraseology that may not be "politically correct", just inserts more BS into the BS of A.

TB, not really a red flag. I personally would rather have the backing of a CO, but if this works for SM bob let him have at it! I think the real challenge will be finding those couple of adults who can grasp the implications of whatever by-laws there are and build a productive committee around them. Generally older scouts will dive in wherever you put them. I think you're on the right track with starting a new patrol. Then ask the boys what they would like to do most in the next few months (Service, High Adventure, Skills Acquisition). Keep an eye for the "odd boy out" who might suit one of your existing patrols. Later give some of the older boys in the other patrols a chance to swap in to the new patrol. Go through the list of POR's with your PLC to see if you have any gaps, and ask the new boys if any of them want to step up and fill them. Meanwhile, think if there are any practical things that need to be done as a result of the merger (e.g., clean gear, make more seats, organize paperwork), and see if a boy might rather do a service project along those lines instead of wearing a patch for the next few months. They key, I think, is to be flexible and upbeat.

Well, I guess if I relay this to my youth, it would be under "why the nation needs first class scouts." And the moral would be "get me those hike plans and get out there where you'll do the world some good."

How about encoding the record on an RFId and implanting it on the kid subcutaneously?

I hope she sent them some signed peacock patches. Always great to have a great story behind a patch! And, Skep, way to live up to your screen name by making this about corporate media jockeying.

So you still get to be SM? Or will you face off in a game of mumbly peg, loser getting the patch? Our troop absorbed a number of boys from adjacent neighborhoods ... mainly because they saw us as being more boy led. Most of us adults really enjoyed the new boys' company. Some of the adults were a little rough, but to complain would have been pots calling kettles black. Our established boys in the upper age range, however, were a little cliquish (stellar academic and athletic types). It took the younger siblings in both groups to really form a decent bond with one another. During all of this, some of the local adults went and spun off a new troops (technically, merged with a failing troop and relocated it to a different CO), and one adult went from there to spin off a third troop. Lots of reasons for that, but my point is that everyone might like the way you operate "on paper," but a point may come a year or two down the road where there are just too many chefs in one kitchen!

When you have a vehicle crash on the way to camp leaving one family mourning, and four others trying to get counseling for PTSD for their kids and their health insurance giving them a runaround. Those pro's who seem rather quiet at roundtables or wherever you may see them ... they sure know how to fast-track care for your boys. Or a less dramatic example, maybe not relevant to leaders of packs or troops: when kids from your crew volunteer as officers at a council level. the council pro that comes along side them and helps them put together some unique council-wide programs ... he/she will make connections that you have no clue about.

Not really. Many of the scouters in our neighborhood are on local park boards. They help parks think "out of the box" and apply for grants and such to develop conservation areas. Some years all of our eagle candidates may choose a project from a single park, and each boys' projects within a park tends to be completely different from the other. Creativity actually increases because the boys are looking to enhance unique aspects of the park.

Sorry to hear that. I hope you have a chance to explain to parents how their boy (by not collecting the signatures in his book) may be losing a keepsake they'll cherish years later. But, it should be no bother to those "tiger parents" if you focus your agenda on those few boys who are plodding through in a less supervised way. I would also suggest you give those further advanced boys the benefit of the doubt in case one or two of them are high achievers (and not really helicoptered) by asking them to lead an activity they already got signed off. For example, if they know their knots, have them teach them to the other boys. I had a similar experience with teaching Sunday school once. A few 4th-6th grade girls from Christian schools would be in a huff that they already knew the story. It was becoming a weekly rant. So, I showed them the syllabus for the next lesson and asked them if they knew that one too. They did. I handed them the teachers' guide and asked if they would teach next week. One of them said she would and (with a little help from mom during the week and me with discipline during the class) wound up doing a fine job. Then I started freely offering the opportunity to teach to any child who seemed like they wanted to give it a try. It did a lot to improve the fellowship among those kids (and myself).

Well, I'm personally proud of you for trying to push the church rules as far as you can. But, at the same time, you can't outpace a bishop who is stickler for protocol. Just like the LDS allows someone other than the 11-year-old's dad to be with him on a weekend campout, it does not allow him to camp for a week long! So, if you are going to call on rules when they permit you to do something, you're kinda obliged to stick to them when they restrict you. Maybe the boys can approach the bishop with a plan for what they'd like to do. Maybe not summer camp, but a weekend here and there, and some service projects, Scout Sunday, visit a mission or whatever. Maybe not advance to First Class, but maybe Tenderfoot at least do some of the activities outlined in the trail to first class. Maybe the bishop would be willing to be the "community leader" that helps the boys go over their rights and responsibilities as a US citizen. Then maybe your dad can still take a few days off and make it a special time with his grandson. Just because he's not scouting, doesn't mean he can't have fun.

What I did was start a Venturing crew and held the line about putting responsibility in the youths' hands. (The first year, I had to shoo "helpful" adults away, saying they were consultants and were to do *nothing* unless explicitly asked to do so by a youth.) This gave son #1 and his buddies an outlet while still contributing to the troop. My daughter was next in line and took advantage of unique opportunities not available in Girl Scouts. Meanwhile, the troop began putting more responsibility on the boys. (Caveat: leaders who did not like this style spun off their own troop.) Now Son #2 is crew president and SPL of a smaller troop of boys who honestly love each other and in whom I take a tremendous amount of pride. (Well ... there is that fire-bug thing, but I've said my peace and they are slowly coming around.) So I would talk to your two older boys and ask them if they would like to start something that "fills in the gaps" in the troop schedule for them and their friends. Then give your DE a call to see if there is an organization out there thinking of chartering a crew. (You could also talk to your troops' CO, but that all depends on where the "good 'ol boy" vibe is coming from.) I highly recommend identifying a female adult who can help the group go co-ed, but that really depends on how "indoorsy" the girl scout programs are in your community.

Ours is about 2 years out from a similar outcome. Two decent troops have started up in the neighborhood, so the total number of scouts hasn't changed. But our boys just keep looking uglier to those Webelos and quirkier to their peers!

Good point. I assumed not, because the OP asked about "ILST as the opportunity to lock-in those campaign promises". Plus this period is between our council's usual leadership trainings. But, we obviously don't know about opportunities in this particular council. Or if this a troop (like mine) where leadership training is not mandatory. So, how many of you consider attending specific out-of-unit training part of fulfilling a PoR?

Watch, it guys. If these are one person, all this tangential banter becomes an ad homenem attack. As long as you're picking on two people, it's ad homini and although probably equally fallacious, no forum moderator ruled against it, yet. Reporters don't get paid for writing comfortable stories where everyone takes everything for granted. This is fodder for a Venturer's ethical controversy. And actually very good for our older youth to mull over.