qwazse

I can see both sides of the "babysitters" argument. I don't ask for a lot of adults, just good ones. That apllies to both Scouts and Sunday school. We have built a heavily parent-dependent culture. That's on us. Other scout associations around the world make their older scouts run the cub programs. My sons, as adults, were asked to help the youth soccer program. They were not asked lead a den. Think about it. Why doesn't NESA send every Pack CC a list of every adult Eagle Scout who currently lives in their neighborhood?

Some ideas are here

This really depends on your troop. I grew having no idea that scouts didn't walk at least 100 yards from the SM's car before they pitched their tents! Summer or winter, we'd have the farthest camp from the parking lot (if at our regular summer camp, that was about a quarter mile uphill). We'd pitch our canvas tents then some of us trudged back down to haul up the 10 gallon army-surplus water bottle. (Camel-back? We had the whole hump!) I'd be sitting there sipping my bedtime cocoa wondering what the guys in the cabin down the hill were up to, and I'd pity them for missing the stars on the new-fallen snow. But, I'm pretty sure those guy's cars were also parked back down by the camp office. That hill was not fit for cars -- especially ones pulling trailers -- on a good day.

Wow. That's cool!

There's a reason why I omit the f- word doublespeak from my posts. It's BSA4G that's in demand. For the past two decades, I've met girl after girl who broke ranks with their friends who prefer "glamping" to proudly participate in the BSA via any door that was open to them. None of those young women have said, "Please, Mr. Q, may I bring mom and dad along?"

In sort of chronological order ... No more Eagle, old guys. Bird Study? Bye Bye. It's for boys, so make it school. Bookwork MB's have them drool. Girl, Godless, Gay? Don't say! SCOTUS: "National, have your way!" Achievement? Bah! Identity! Drop the First Class Journey. Uniform the committee. Fancy knots in rows of three. YPT? That lawyer's fee! Secret files are so scary! No adult? Stay at home! Camping kids go on their own. Explorers camping. Really? Call them Venturers, set them free! NESA's Eagle promos grind. There's one on Silver! "Never Mind!". Older ventures, that's not fine. Twenty-one can't be the line. Paperwork for all adults. MBC's must join the cult! Girl Scouts, where are you? "Find us flushies." Boo hoo. First class ladies: "Help us please!" Old farts: "They make us sneeze!" The World Jamboree's coming. Don't blow it! Scouting's co-eds are cool, and they show it! Even Saudi and Pakistan know it. We'll be fine.

The OSHA regs make things tedious. But ... I really appreciated Son #2 asking me to help with his project and be his project adviser. He had a fierce independent streak, which was great for academics, but limited how patient he could be with manual skills that require lots of instruction and attention to detail. This project provided a balanced way for us to polish some of those rough edges. For my project, I taught myself how to use a belt sander that was lying around in the basement. Never teach yourself how to use a belt sander. Had I asked ANYONE, "Who knows how to work this thing?", they could have have taught me safety and shop vac skills that would have spared my church social hall a boatload of sawdust! Some eyes were at risk. I wrongly assumed the church would not front the cost of safety goggles. I did manage to stain a bunch of tables nicely, but there were some old school painters in town who, had I taken a moment, would have taught me the ins and outs of faux grain. So, the increased involvement of adults has changed the flavor of projects, I think. But, they've also enabled boys to pick up more skills and knowledge.

@EagleVolunteer, welcome to the forums! Do you remember Mazda's "Dogs ... love ... trucks" commercial? Boyscouts ... love ... paperwork! Ask him if there's a young adult in the troop who can help you with the milling and assembly. He should be responsible for mocking up and drawing. If your 3-D drafting he and a buddy should be looking over your shoulder as you do. Surely, there's a hand tool that one can use instead of a Kreg jig. Same for finish hardware. We live in a century-old house. Screwing knobs was part of the kid's skill set from when they were old enough to yank them! He should be responsible for the sanding and finishing. (Citing "leadership development", Son #2 tried to dump that part of his project on me after I cut the hardwood pieces. I said he could go recruit a sander/stainer or leadership develop himself into one while I take a hike to the coffee shop. Mrs. Q being the fine woodworker in the family, she trained him in the process and he pulled it off quite nicely.) In general, you have the right idea. Yes, you should do the machining. But, ideally, the boy should interact with you piece by piece as he watches his project come together. He might even realize that a cut will need adjustment. That process of thoughtful supervision is central to leadership development. Hopefully he can be there with a buddy or another adult so they can learn together.

Or, the girls might field two patrols; and the boys, two. Within their units, no SPL necessary. But the PLCs, deciding to coordinate tightly, might decide to elect an SPL for their frequent-and-often activities at the same place and time. He/she may select an ASPL from either the same or different unit. Two troops, four PLs, one SPL, one ASPL. National sees two charters. Youth PoRs are not on the charter. Even if they were, an SPL would be on one roster and no SPL would be on the other troop's roster and nobody would dare yank the SMs' chains about it one way or the other. The SMs see youth develop leadership .... to the point that SPL may put on his/her resume: "Boy Scouts of America: Troops ###B/###G, ___ rank, Senior Patrol Leader" SM is listed as a reference and backs the claim.

Guys, your quotes just keep getting better as I type! 1. National has no way to track or control how patrols form. It might be cool if they did. Each youth would fill out an online survey on each scout in the rest of the troop and produce a "friend matrix" that would tell the SPL who would best cluster together in patrols. Or it might be just as cool if we keep 'big brother' out of this. 2. National has no way to prevent any two troops from working in lock-step. Any two PLC's could decide they want to camp, hike, and meet together. That's how a spin-off of a spin-off troop and ours eventually merged. The boys looked at their friends meeting just down the road and told us that being two troops was just plain stupid. We shuffled back and forth between CO's, and ultimately settled on the one who wasn't going to charge us rent, but we let the boys wear either of the two unit numbers on their sleeve. 3. My observations of other co-ed scouting groups (including venturing) does not show that boys would be "muscled out" of leadership positions. This is because there are more youth to care for, the outdoors is big, and everybody has to step into a PoR for their patrol (and later, their troop) to succeed. My observation of co-ed contingents on backpacking trips indicate that it is completely random as to who takes the lead. 4. In our culture, girls only look like they have more organizational skills than boys. That's because they haven't been challenged to get their patrol geared up to hike 5 miles to someplace where they will need to set up their own shelter and provide their own food, and all the rosters in the world won't make up for personality conflicts. So, they stay at home and get out their tablet and plan sleepovers, or trips to the mall that require heavy coordination of parent pick-up/drop-off time. 5. Thanks to GS/USA's sequestering of the best troops into isolated clusters of no more than 15, American girls have next to no experience with tour plans like: "Insert Friday, extract Sunday, we've got everything in between, adults Mrs. ___ and Miss __ will supervise from a distance". That development is arrested until they go to college or the military. They start adulthood trained to manage detail: good preparation for corporals, not so good for generals. So, my larger concern for BSA4G -- at least in early years -- is not girls "outleading" boys. It is adults willing to provide girls the controlled chaos that our boys have grown comfortable with.

Now, if the scouts built the camper themselves, they should count it towards camping nights!

Pertinent sections of the g2ss https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss03/: Overnight camping may include. This is not family camping, which is defined (emphasis mine) as: If staff were National Camp School trained, they should have known about the winter sports helmet recommendation https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/alerts/winter2009/: What's unsaid is what staff did, if anything, to set up a safe-sledding area.

The message of a charitable giving knot IMHO: A scout is thrifty. He manages his finances for that rainy day ... and so that he can return some of his earnings to the people who he sees doing good in the world. But, this knot may also be given to the person who inspired a donor to act. From http://councils.scouting.org/Council440/Donate/James West Award So when you see someone with that knot, ask more about their story. Find out who made the donation in order for them to wear it and why.

For those who are concerned: From https://scoutingmagazine.org/2008/01/know-your-knots/

Welcome to the forums @justbill !

@HelpfulTracks, we don't usually count Learning for Life members - as many of those participants aren't even aware that their school registered them in the BSA. Excluding that (as well as 18+ year-olds in Venturing and Exploring), we see steady declines in the traditional program - going back to the nationalization of the 18th birthday requirement for Eagle.

No plaques for me please. On the other hand if, in my name, you create a $600 campership for scouts or scholarship for scouters' training or even a gas buy-down for parents who transport scouts, I would be truly honored.

Nobody says six consecutive consecutive weeks!

Well, if they've never done any kind of boating on the ocean, there's no comparison. But, yes, every day of every adventure is on water. Some, like Bahama's adventure, involves island exploring, others, like scuba, bring you back to base in the evening. You don't have to be a collegiate swimmer, but you have to be comfortable swimming a couple hundred yards ... in rather deep water ... with heavily-toothed critters scuttling below out of sight.

Except for issues like camperships or waiving dues for specific scouts - which involves some privacy - committee members benefit from the presence of DLs at their meetings. But that starts asking for more than one hour a week from your DL!

You need to search less quickly. There are, quite literally, boatloads of adventures: http://www.bsaseabase.org/Adventures.aspx. That said, mask, fins, and snorkel are integral to most of the adventures ... sort of like hiking boots at Philmont. Even the out-island adventure that you mention involves snorkeling gear. There's also fishing, and if you're lucky, seafood.

Just flew home. Feels good to have one's face hurt by stepping outside. Less deceptive than that sun getting you all cheery only to have you watch your face peel off later.

Honor God and Country Help Others Obey the Scout Law[ Three fingers symbolize those three points. I don't think the thumb holding down the pinky was meant to symbolize anything - it was just a way to draw attention to the other fingers. So, I like option 1.

My issue with the "masculinity" mantra is that, having met scouts from other countries who are no more or no less paragons of their respective sexes, I found men who are no less masculine nor women who are no less feminine than our own citizens. My impression is that boys become masculine with or without the presence of girls in their troop. The cultural influences that foster gender dysphoria (or identity discovery, as a progressive may call it) may overwhelm notions of male or female mystique. This may be especially true in (BSA or GS/USA) troops who value ideals to the near exclusion of the promise of scouting in the outdoors. In contrast, the pioneer spirit of men and women working together to settle in a strange land side-by-side may be what youth need to rekindle the notion that we humans were created uniquely to complement one another. But, that would require any set of boys and girls to be tasked with monthly challenges of hiking and camping independently with their mates.

There are plenty of scouting forums that ban discussion of the 3G's and politics and general. I don't mind that there's a mix of both. I'm trying to get my head around lots of things. Only some days is it the patrol method or scoutcraft. This week I'm dealing with a couple of young relatives (an their dad) who are about done with scouting because the SM vetoes the boys requests to camp every month, freaked out when the one 14 y/o boy wanted to spend the night sleeping out in 30 degree weather (south Floridians) , and avoids back-country like the plague. On top of it, the dad and I got skunked fishing this morning, so we had nothing to distract us from our little worlds of trouble! On weeks like this I don't enjoy hearing that someone like @Eagle94-A1 also has adults who refuse to deliver on the promise of scouting, so it's nice to have a forum that I can look to for a decent current I&P back-and-forth where I can simply up- or down- vote.