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@MattR, you just explained why I could never remember BSA's mission statement. I no longer feel inadequate! I like bringing up youth to be responsible for the well-being of our nation's families, communities, and resources. On that note, car-camping could teach a load of responsibility if scouts worked with their driver check the lights, fuel, oil, breaks, and tire treads and pressure, they got out and cleaned windows and mirrors at refueling stops, pick up litter and shake out the mats, on freezing nights, raise the wipers before bed checks, inspected each car's roadside emergency kit and first aid kit.

I was just thinking about how the Scout Book app is a ways from keeping up with patrol-method requirements tracking. (E.g. PL's can't sign-off on requirements. Although they claim they may add the feature at some point.) Consider the following low-brow high-tech procedure: Each scout (or his parent) creates an account on the cloud (e.g. Google Drive) ... maybe with a folder labeled 'Rank Advancement '. The scout gives 'read' rights to the folder to his SM, advancement chair, and parents. After some requirements get signed off in his hand book, scout saves a photo of that page to his drive. The photo might be named 'Second Class', same as any previous photos for the same rank. That way, as he posts updates, the old ones are archived. He could also save photos of his participation diary, miles hiked, etc ... He could have a photo of his completed blue cards as well. In advance of his conference, the SM could bring up the scouts photo for that rank. He could then cross-check the book, if necessary. End of conference, he snaps a picture of the page and shares it with the advancement chair. BoR transpires. Advancement is filed by the current means. If the PL wants to plan activities, he can go through boys' pages and see if a few need something in common. Or he can look through everyone's picture of MBs and see if someone did something cool. If not, he could just ask at a meeting, but where's the fun in that? If the BSHB is lost, the leaders can rebuild from the scouts' most recent photos. Advancement track: done. Personal responsibility: taught. Teamwork: shared. Money otherwise spent on software: dutch oven pizza party!

Older scouts need fellowship. That means games, laughter, service, and food. Instead of time instructing scouts -- only have of whom will stay on task during a meeting -- give them half hour opportunities: A venturing patrol for the next big activity. (Training might be them hiking 14 miles to the younger scouts' 3 in the same day. I.e., avoid the pitfalls that @blw2 described of wrecking fellowship.) An Eagle scouts advising Life scouts huddle. Set up games for younger scouts. Special service projects for your CO. Skits and Song (Yes older boys can sing if they try) improv. Cook up a treat in the kitchen that they may share with younger scouts who can demonstrate a skill. Or, a cracker barrel for your PLC.

In one sense there's no structure that needs to be maintained. Somewhere, some boys and girls are going to pick up a manual or see a few videos that inspire them to hike out and spend the night under stars or canvas. Either those of us who've done this sort of thing before will support them, or we wont. Either BSA will up us, or get in the way.

Yep. I'm not a fan of the new training regimen. I think we lost something significant when so much became "... in the comfort of your home ..." rather than "... at your next roundtable ..." or "... with our trainer at meeting hall ...". As much as it was a hassle, you got some fellowship out of the deal. And, sometimes that included an invite to an awesome hike.

If you can team up with a local school or YMCA to have lessons for the community one evening a week, I suspect quite a few able-bodied counselors will come out of the woodwork. I disagree with @SFF about being content with boys just being able to earn an MB at camp. We are scouters. Generating opportunities year round should be our game.

This question is bigger than BSA. Many national youth programs may falter if benefactors of all types cease to believe in them. If only partisans would take the money they blow on these hideous TV campaign spots and sink it into local youth programs ... That would tip the scales for me ... an ad that said "Instead of bashing the politician we hate/dread, we donated the money for the remainder of this spot to boys and girls clubs. Enjoy the next 25 seconds of air paid by other sponsors. See you at the polls!"

I like @perdidochas's point. Bring a buddy. Shoot, arrange a bike hike with your entire troop, if possible. I favor a boy earning one or two badges from his folks because years from now those blue cards (if they manage to be preserved that long) will bring up fond memories. It's amazing what seeing a parent's or a friend's signature again after a few decades can do for one's mental health. So much other stuff that I've wasted space on, I'd never miss.

No. If there are parents who don't trust you, there's no amount of proof (short of them riding on your handlebars) that will convince them otherwise. And if you are a smart as you seem to be, there's no data that you couldn't fabricate. Earn the badge old school: scout's honor from the best MBC you can think of. If that person is Mom, so be it.

Well, I guess the main attribute of a CC is a knack for asking adults for stuff. I think there are real advantages to a pack CC who also serves as a troop MC.

Some months they are more autonomous than others. And, if you browse through old posts on this topic you'll get a better idea of the ebb and flow. I rib our SM a lot because he has a servant heart, and offers to run errands for the boys. But, when that doesn't work out to the boys' liking (e.g., a key ingredient is missing) it's on them to solve it. And there are reasons besides laziness that drive boys to want to be more troop and less patrol. Overcoming those is a process.

@ItsBrian take a look at the requirement again! If you read https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/merit_badge_reqandres/personal_fitness.pdf carefully, you may be relieved (by about 3/4).

@MattHiggins, file this under "all politics is local". We usually let the boys adjust their camping arrangements the week before the campout. That is, we expect them to come the Monday before telling us who will be joining their patrol for the weekend. Yes, this opens the gate for adult intervention. So, the PLC has a 15 minutes pow-wow after each meeting (rather than the more typical monthly meeting). This helps them be "first-to-know" about who's on what roster, and gives them a chance to "task" adults with things that will actually help boys lead rather than replace their leadership. The best solution for patrols is a group of boys so tight and proud of their identity that they would more than happily arrive at camp as a "patrol of one" if need be, for the sake of his buddies. Inculcating that vision is truly challenging. But, it's fun when you see it happen.

This is the problem: we are given clear rules. They are the first pages of the MB pamphlet. You yourself cited them in your opening post. Then, you asked "Why even volunteer to host a MB class if you know that you have likely set up your scouts for failure due to your interpretation of the requirements? " (Emphasis mine.) I infer that somewhere along the line: Someone lead you all to believe "with" means "without" in some cases, and somehow your scout thought his situation was one of those cases. That's not interpretation. That's illiteracy at best. Arrogance at worst. Most likely, somewhere in the middle. Somewhere you equate earning a partial blue-card with failure. Leading a workshop is a success even if a kid goes away with as little as an MBC's contact info. Opportunity: about as big a gift as can ever be given. So, my apologies if you are more willing to adjust your thinking on this than your phrasing lets on. With some folks, it takes a long while for the above to sink in. But, it does need to sink in. It really stinks to see 11-12 year-olds hit these adult-generated roadblocks. At least your scout has local contacts so he can quickly wrap up his partials. But, we need to lay blame where it belongs: BSA was clear. The MBC followed the requirements as written. The volunteers and pro's who organized the course weren't. This creates choppy waters indeed. A scout cannot control what he is told. But, he can control what he reads and set his standards accordingly. On the bright side, learning attention to details like this will pay off for him when he goes to do his Eagle project. Who knows what hideous workbook will await him by then!

I really hate how this happens to new parents and scouts. You think you're being sent to something that -- by squinting very carefully -- will allow a scout to bypass the tedium of very first phrase of a requirement. By sins of omission and commissions, workshops practice this deceit on the inexperienced. I assure you that it enrages our SMs. Because, it's fun getting boys started on the road to success. You need a paradigm shift. And, like most people who need one, you don't believe you need it. When I was a scout, the working assumption was you would attend a merit badge pow-wow to meet a counselor and learn how to perform some of the requirements -- not to complete all of the requirements that day! Having met the counselor once made it much easier to call him/her later to wrap up the badge in ensuing weeks. Your working assumption going into any MB workshop was that at best you will earn a partial. Partials were supposed to be a good thing. They cleared the stack of things a boy could do easily, giving him a plan for knock out the one or two things that couldn't possibly be done by first meeting. An honest workshop would make this clear. In fact most should be two weekends: one to introduce the badge and help the boy get get the "counselor's approval," and one to come back and demonstrate what he did with that advice. (Actually, with the fire-starting thing ... it can be a long wait for a clear day in western PA.) So, the Boy's Life link ... is it an "honest workshop"? It provides resources, but it also quotes the requirements verbatim ... "with your counselor’s approval." It could do better by opening "Share this site with you counselor and with his approval select ..."

Make sure they have a link to the Learn it Young. Remember it Forever. video from Scouts South Africa : And at least one of the many Happy Scouts videos, for example this one from Slovenia: Bottom line: if your course is a bunch of rules instead of fun and challenging and international (because it's not the Nation Wide Web), go home.

Wow, scouts being friendly (well, at least their leaders encouraging them to do so) who'da'thunk it?

So, you now know that to not seek a your counselors guidance is a bad idea. I'm sorry that the workshop that you scout attended set him up to violate the spirit of adult association clearly intended by this requirement. I'm not hating the player, just pointing out that putting it on red five at the roulette table is rarely profitable. Hopefully your troops counselor is like @MattR and will give him a simple project to work on ... Unlike me who would have him pick an excersize from the back of the FORTRAN Coloring Book!

So how could a scout get approval from his counselor before the workshop? (I hope everyone sees where I'm going with this.) Anyway @ItsBrian's suggestion is as good as any.

I would only worry about this if the scouts express concern about implying that they are something they are not. Or, they think they might not take the oath seriously if they aren't American (as if saying they will do stuff "as an American" somehow gets them off the hook for as long as they aren't citizens). Two possibilities come to mind: "As a sojourner in America ..." "As a {insert provenance here} ..." It also wouldn't hurt to find out if there is something of the sort that people from their homeland would say.

I'm sorry for the "you know it when you see it" attitude. The problem with too much detail in a BSHB requirement: it intimidates boys. That's not what we want. We want them to work with a mentor (for swimming it is usually an adult) who can help them reflect on a concept. Here's part of the swim test description from National Camp School: I honestly have never met any life guard or scout who has thought that this was problematic. The requirement takes a back seat to forestalling death. If we have the slightest inkling that next time a scout jumps in the water he wouldn't make the distance, we'd ask him to come back for some coaching and retake the test. Most days, if you pull a scout out of the water after he barely covered some distance, you can flat-out ask him "Was that in a strong manner?" And, having never read verbiage like that, he'll give you an honest appraisal. Maybe it's my upbringing. I knew I had mastered the breast stroke only after the pool director (a veteran from the Women's Air Corps) didn't cuss at me. That was better than any possible sign-off or patch. God rest her. If she was still living when my kids were learning to swim, I would have arranged the one hour commute for them to learn from her. Now I'm not encouraging anyone to take up her style of student-teacher interaction. (Most of you couldn't survive the chain smoking required for it.) But accept the fact that someone who's had to rescue a few victims (and you usually don't have to guard for long before you do) has a pretty clear vision of what they need to see before they clear your scout.

@hawkwin, I'm not sure what problem you're having with this. Our SPL asked our PL's to not sign off on any trail to first class requirements until they've seen a scout perform the skill a week after it was taught. He effectively expected scouts to be able to tie a knot in a strong manner. We're supporting him.

Actually very few endorse a candidate -- relative to lively debates that I may have heard in the 70s and 80s. Since then, the fear of losing non-profit status is palpable. Issues are slightly different, but even so I only heard one pastor in as many decades ask congregants to contact their representatives about an issue (specifically, to let them know that invading Iraq did not meet criteria of just war.) Talk shows have filled the void left by pulpits.

It could be a case of "When government runs like business." It's been interesting to see the gerrymandering cases in PA and WI (among others). Academing solutions of how to redistrict states have been cooked up (e.g., https://arxiv.org/abs/1710.08781) but deciding bodies want to have their cake and it it too.

The thing is, I feel like I've always been taught (and have taught my kids) to respect Girl Scouts, Campfire Girls, Swedes visitng Jambo, etc ... all my life. (My SM had requisition tents from the QM for when GS Troop who needed to borrow tents ... and smiled to myself when they came back with a perfume scent.) Then these decades of polarization come and suddenly those programs become second class, NESA our rowdy fans cheered excessively, and our program gets pegged great -- but our leaders arrogant and bull-headed. So, we try to provide what others seem to have lost. Some of us are uncomfortable with the sacrifice, and the solution? Marginalize anybody who feels we've moved beyond them? That's a great way to drain our brain trust, our manpower, and ultimately, our camps. Think units sparsely dispersed, districts as bigger than councils used to be, councils the size of areas. But, who cares about money? Someone may step in where a traditional-minded leader steps out. But at what costs? Scouts without a trained leader who they trust? Disenchanted boys abandon Oath and Law (or never get a chance to learn them)? One more angry kid stewing at home until old enough to acquire munitions? One hiker injured alone on a trail without scouts strolling by to treat him/her. There are enough I suggest those of us who find redemption in BSA4G should refrain from disparaging remarks regarding unisex-minded scouters, and replace them with this simple thought: we need them. Our boys need them. Even our girls need them. Unisex-mined scouters are doing a great job with our youth. If WOSM includes many organizations who deliver the promise of scouting according to the customs of their countrymen and deems them worthy of the world crest, we certainly can respect our own citizens who desire to do the same.