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Short answer regarding Eagle app: no. Worst case scenario he's a camping maniac, meets requirements at age 11.4 and someone doing the math tells him to wait six months for his BoR. meanwhile he keeps earning MBs and racks up instapalms. Not pretty, but not calamitous. But if he's anything like the one scout in Son #1's den who started a little early, he'll take his good old time, and that gun-jump will be of no consequence. You all sound a little harsh. I'd tell the scout that if he completes his Webeols badge, he can start attending the AoL, then next year he could be a denner for his buddies in his grade and help them to AoL quickly and move on to more fun things. As soon as he meets the age/grade requirements for crossover, he can do so. Talk directly to the scout. If he's mature enough to read, then he's mature enough to know what is required for crossover. Don't make this a committee decision. Read the book, do what it says, flex where you can.

Just like our POTUS needs a scout by the podium to hold a swear jar the next time he addresses a throng of scouts, we need parents to have their scout hold a moan jar for us while they wish for moonbeams. They drop in a quarter for each minute of moan. @Cambridgeskip, at twenty pence a minute, that should give you a bit of extra ice cream, even if the EU pulls a sugar blockade! P.S. - I think our district executive (DE) would be the counterpart to your GSL. Although, as you may have read, we often manage them!

I can assure you that top on the list of unpleasant crew advisor experiences is telling a half-dozen gun-ho girls that we lack the requisite female adults for them to join our expedition. These girls rightly trusted the male adult leaders, so the sense of the YPT rule was completely lost on them. On the other hand, they found (strong-armed) a female leader for the next weekend. I was quite proud of them for the rebound. I can only imagine this being replayed for clusters of girls throughout the country. If you've got a dozen like that, put it on them -- not church, nor troop committee -- to find the woman (and possibly a second) of integrity and dedication who will train as their SM/ASM. It's old school (with just a little more paperwork): form your patrol first, find your leaders second.

If the kid is a bully, then the parent is probably at wits end. He may not have the skills to deal with the situation his son put him in. (Yes it may be more complicated than that. The parents may have done things to frame the kids character, so they're reaping what they've sown. That doesn't change the mess that they're in.) The parent needs your pity, not your wrath. And, pity is really hard to do from a position of leadership. This could be a situation where your son stood up for himself and it didn't go well for the other kid - detention being the tip of the iceberg. I've seen plenty of those as well. If so, unless the two of them figure out how to reconcile differences peacefully, it will not be easy for your son going forward. Teaching a boy to be steadfast through fire requires a lot of attention from parents. Taking a stand while keeping a soft heart takes only comes with lots of guidance. You don't want to be obligated to adult leadership in a troop in those situations. The other adults can be there to help your son, but you need the freedom to hand him off to them, and be ready to touch base on the car rides home.

@TazDevil22, welcome to the forums. It's the CC's and COR's signature on the applications. You could try winning them over, but unless the SM is going around flying off the handle causing you all to be upset one another, they'll take his word about who is or is not assisting him. Take this for the opportunity that it is. Block out time in your schedule to read a little. Or master a scouting skill like a real adult. (For example, now that the young backs have completed IOLS, I'm spending more Sunday afternoons with the local orienteering club.) Also, you might need to sort out what it is about your son that's getting a parent all fired up to the point he doesn't want your boy around. This might mean asking other parent's of your boy's friends to give you a frank assessment. All that takes time, and ASM -- if done well -- drains on that time.

Yes, I know that more than half of our nation's college grads get a job that requires a degree within a year of graduation. Daughter was in the other half, took a year for the oil slump to rebound for her to get a job with the company she targeted.

@ParkMan this is a situation where the troop leaders don't have the stones to call a spade a spade. I've been painfully clear to parents that BSA requires me to have 5 female youth and one female ASM. Without that, no troop. Some CO's may skirt the boundaries on this, I'm pretty sure ours wont. If I were a pro, this would definitely be a situation where I would call GS/USA for their best troop and connect this girl there. I guess that's why I'm not a pro.

LoL! One of our Eagle scouts completed Merchant Marine academy and got his captain's license. Not sure about income, but he's driving some pretty big toys along some very scenic waterways. The path there led through theater. So I agree that trades should not be neglected, but ... I'm not Ivy league in the least. But in general their syllabi for comparable classes cover far more than material. Plus, connections ... I'm sorry, but no High School or trade school in the US would let me splice genes, frequency modulate synthesizers, read the language of my grandparents, and bring a computer system crashing to its knees (unintended hazard of iterative processing). The wife, the kids, and I went through stone cold sober. But, yes, alcohol dependence is a serious issue ... with higher prevalence among college students. It makes for great drama. But most students would resent their time in school being characterized as such.

FWIW, on the bus ride home I noticed: 1. The union hall had a sign up for roofers needed (will train) starting at $31/hour. 2. A girl in a BSA uniform was walking down the sidewalk carrying a WVU backpack.

It's called Boy Scouts for a reason ... Well, the "reason" is to stand in contrast to military scouts -- to use the same skills but towards peaceful ends. This is quite the opposite of some folks' impression, who think our net effect is to fuel the gears of war.

IMHO the point of all of these personal growth conferences, especially at the upper ranks, are: Increase the youth's comfort and skill talking eye-to-eye with adults. Help the youth reflect on his scouting career and make plans going forward. Help adults discover what is inspiring or discouraging a youth ... in hopes of finding ways to encourage or exhort him/her. Help adults discover what the youth would like from their unit, but really never thought to ask. I'm mainly thinking about the importance of that last item. Take your son for example, say he and his buddies and the lunch table have a bright idea for something to brighten the life of the troop, but it would require adult buy-in. It might be a great idea, adults might rally behind it if they hear of it, but in the business of running the troop and a bunch of other things on the PLC's agenda, each boy forgets to bring it up. That idea never gets past the lunch table. However, one of the boys is likely up for an SMC or BoR. If those events get scheduled promptly and an adults asks "What could the troop to do next?" in that context where the youth has the floor and nobody's rushed, he might remember his buddies' bright idea, and it might resonate with a few volunteers -- possibly even the right volunteer -- to help the youth make it so. My guess is that artificial delays in personal growth conferences exponentially lowers the odds of a scout recalling a bright idea. Or, think of it this way, lets say an average scout who ages out in your troop earns Eagle and a couple palms. That's 5 sets of upper rank conferences. But, if there are artificial delays in conferences, you might only get to touch base with the scout 4 times. This doesn't affect the troop's palm count anymore (thanks to insta-palms), but it does reduce the amount of formal adult association. Less feedback, more missed opportunities.

Seems like we've just worked through the embattled erstwhile privelaged class (EEPC) argument in a nutshell: Thesis: This EEPC is being marginalized. Counter: Show stats. Argument: See, The ratio of EEPC:non-EEPC with X is declining, so much so More non-EEPC than EEPC are getting X Soon EEPC will have no access to X and will be crushed like worms on the pavement. Counter: But in terms of odds of success: That ratio is: 9:10, not exactly the definition of "crushed under foot." More EEPC are getting X than ever before. Members of EEPC who apply for X get it as readily as non-EEPC members. Aggressively recruiting non-EEPC to X has also enabled EEPC to get X as well. Rejoinder: Well, X isn't that valuable anymore. Look at all of the EEPC who've done fine without it. So, there's an attack on EEPC that can be demonstrated by their now increased access to some meaningless X of which non-EEPC are getting even more?

Yep. To quote myself ... At the outset, you said you were more concerned about other boys whose schedules may run afoul of this policy. So, run the marathon. In general the faster path to resolution: SM and ASMs go to district roundtable and compare notes with other troops during the Boy Scout breakout session. I've seen the Great Seneca District of Laurel Highlands Council do this quite well. SM's can ask for a thumbs up/thumbs down regarding their policy from the other SM's. As a crew advisor, I learned to get most of my advice from the council venturing committee. No offense to my crew committee, but they had never been venturers. I had one fella joke "You mean advisors have advisors?" If they're good advisors, they do! Troop committees (by virtue of more familiarity with the program) are a little more capable to deal with these things, but they are more deliberative. As far as your troop is concerned, the long term pay-off will be adults getting feedback from each advancing boy ASAP. If I were you that's how I'd pitch it.

Well, when a youth started identifying as a slinger of cannabis, we rejected him. It seems to have helped. Over the years we have discussed reasons for rejecting other youth for their own good. But, let's suppose rejecting a youth is harmful. Take the youth rejecting his/her biological self, is he/she not also causing harm? Are we not obliged to exhort him/her to refrain?

Caveat about that "older scout's hero" gig, you might find yourself saddled with some serious discipline issues. Scouts who don't want to bend sometimes break bad. That's not to discourage. It's just to give your committee a heads up that they can still hold scouts to high standards yet don't take them for granted if all they do for the troop is be decent souls in their community until they age out.

That's a strong case for a program that doesn't let girls think they've "arrived" until they earn some type of personal management badge. Hmmmm ..... Seriously. Because she ditched GS/USA, and this isn't part of the venturing curriculum, Daughter had to be brought up to speed. Fortunately, Son #1 was willing to help with the training. He'd not only earned the badge, but had been through my "Need $? Submit budget." school of hard knocks.

@WisconsinMomma, you have been lied to. College (2 and 4 year program) acceptance rates are up to 70%. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cpa.asp Actual undergraduate enrollment in degree-granting programs https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cha.asp In other words, that male:female ratio has been pretty static for some time, with about a 5 point gap when percentage of population is considered. As @cocomax expressed, young men are seeing less return on investment in college and will not enroll straight out of high school, causing this gap to widen. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d16/tables/dt16_303.80.asp?current=yes. But that will only increase the call for male students to enroll in colleges. For example, to remain competitive, the two all-female colleges along Pittsburgh's academic corridor started calling themselves universities and enrolling men.

@Momleader, and you think the same thing hasn't happened with pictures of our boys? We have to complete the paperwork and behave with unnatural circumspection thanks to these "sick/weird/unsavory types". I have had this constant tension with my scouts (not just youth, but adult scouters who put together images for training videos and such) about modesty their in social media presence, especially in uniform (be it scouts or sports). Some of my fellow parents accuse me of being "Old World" or spending too much time with muslims. (Neither is an insult in my book.) Or, play takes-one-to-know-one regarding me and those "unsavory types". (Which is an insult, for which I need to remind myself that ad hominem indicates hollowness on the part of the accuser.) We as a culture are stuck in the '60s. Only it's the 1760's, 1860's, and 1960's all at once. So, I have learned to breath deep and accept that for everyone like me and you whose alarms raise at such things, there are others who think, "Aw, cute, looks like something for my kid." Get to know the moderators of those pages, and learn how to discretely express your concerns. See if that improves things.

I've noticed that our boy scouts, starting with Son #2, have been ambivalent towards NHS. The boys don't think they need it as much as girls think they do. As a family, we certainly didn't think NHS contributed to anybody's career goals. Again, with the average male college applicant more likely to be accepted into a college than ever before, the general need for high school honor societies has diminished. Son #2 was making high marks, was mentoring youth in church, and was a Life Scout. He figured that was all he needed.

I love to hear about active well-rounded kids. I'm still a little confused about the rush. I'm assuming he advanced to 1st class at summer camp, so he's been active for about two months? So, he tells his SPL and SM that he has to suspend activity until December (excepting a couple of campouts), and has a scout in mind to fill in for Chaplin's Aide while he's out. He leads his team to the golden net championship. Then he returns just in time to plan out the troop Christmas party and prep everyone for Klindike derby. He knocks out a few MBs while being active through January, and qualifies far Star by Scout Sunday. That gives him time to achieve Life by August. One more soccer season, then Eagle by July. He's 13 now, he'll be fifteen then. Goal achieved.

Why is it so hard for boys to accept that 11 of them are in a one patrol troop with no need for SPL or ASPL? The oldest two or three are JASM, Instructor, or TG. With a small troop, the positions are similar. They should team up with the SM and make sure some busy work gets done, and maybe make some calls to other troops for a friendly campout and competition on whatever the troop thinks their one patrol is best at. The other boys should be the patrol, with the one PL and his APL. No PLC needed. They come to meeting, JASM/TG/Instructor asks what they want to do in the next month, ask PL what he needs help with, and they help him call in assistance when needed and not a moment before. @ItsBrian, I pitched this model to Son #2 when his troop became this small, and they soundly rejected it. Seems like you guys are also afraid of letting go of big troop bureaucracy. Any idea why?

I usually let these be on the shaky legs on which they stand. But when they seem to come in spades, it might be time to correct. Barry, you should know by that ad hominem serves only to hint that any real arguments you have are specious. If at any point I have lorded my erstwhile rank over someone else, please quote. I vow to contact them personally and apologize. Until then, let readers know that your aim is blind. If I can claim superiority in anything it is memories: of young women and men at a camp fire baking bread on sticks, of them settling in on an Appalachian plateau beneath a stand of hemlock for a game of cards before dusk, of rocks and bogs and songs and dance, of one helping another up the giant's ladder on a nigh-time ropes course, of the foreign scout helping her American mates remember their knots. If you want to challenge my arrogance, such as it is, challenge that I have been deluded by experience, that my judgement is clouded by smiles of a rather peculiar brand of youth - exceptions from the rest of the nation. Yes. The crisis is that scouters have fabricated a lie about needing an institutionalized safe space for children of each sex across all parts of the nation. In doing so, they have alienated boys who so happen to patrol with their sisters and girlfriends to achieve the pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with their mates. Since colleges have increased integration, a larger percentage of American boys than ever are likely to complete college https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/11/gender-education-gap/546677/. That an even larger percentage of American are also likely to complete college does not negate the historic academic potential for our average high-school male. Meanwhile American scouters have touted sex-segregation, and a smaller percentage of American boys and girls than ever are likely to join scouts. What kind of safe space is it when your target audience wont join?

@Bill2018, Welcome to the forums! Dad of soccer kids here. In front of the whole troop, Son #2 handed over his SPL position when he realized that he could not be at meetings and many activities because of his fall schedule. I consider that to be a proud moment in his career as a scout. He picked up with responsibilities with the troop as soon as the fall season ended (late because of playoffs). I can't remember if he became SPL again. But because of being responsible like that, I don't think anybody questioned his tenure. I'm sure your son can be a star player to his team and star scout to his troop. It's okay if he takes 8 months to do both well.

What those of us who have experienced coed scouting in any of its forms have generally concluded was that the premise "that boys and girls behave differently, learn, differently, and develop differently" was not sufficiently global and universal as to mandate segregation. Further, the premise that GS/USA, with its present management, could serve as the outdoor program for all American girls has been proven false. Finally, the false narratives implicating harm to boys when institutions like colleges aggressively recruit women have shown themselves to be the pathetic conspiracy theories that they are by the mere fact that the odds of a young American male holding a college degree are higher than ever before. Decades of lies. So, should one be angry at these past two dozen months of smoke and mirrors? Maybe. But, screaming "Don't drink the bug juice!" when not only does it not kill, but it actually satisfies thirst, does not make those passing out the cups the worst of liars.

Two great celebration on one great day: National Hunting and Fishing + Fish Amnesty Day To the ones we catch and the ones that get away!