MattR

I think this is getting closer to the crux of the problem. There is training and there is coaching mentoring and encouragement. The troops use both. In fact, it's heavily weighted towards the latter. The councils barely use training. For other than safety related training, the model is one and done. So, how to run a scout troop? It's based on the lowest common denominator and one and done. Outdoor skills? One and done. Everyone here says one needs to seek further on one's own to improve. This doesn't match the problem of having fewer parents with outdoor skills. They don't know what they don't

I really hate to be a cynic, but I don't know if the origin of the debt matters. They're losing money and in the red, and they used Philmont to get more money. If they're lucky membership will stop declining, but for now it won't go up. Eventually they will run out of money, file for bankruptcy, and then it gets interesting. I'm more curious about what happens after they file for bankruptcy. In particular, would a judge say "you guys are clueless, it's time for you to get better leadership?" The BSA keeps saying the problems are all external; membership, volunteers, society, whatever

Just to verify, I went on facebook and looked for Stinnett's facebook page (he's a lawyer in Colorado Springs). He put up two posts on the 21st: he quit his Philmont position as Camping/Program chairman and his National Committee Member position. So, I guess there's no point in sending him any email.

While there is less community it certainly isn't less relevant (look at suicide rates over the past 50 years), and I think that's the key to your last question: what image should the BSA project? There may be fewer parents interested in developing responsibility and self sufficiency in their kids, but the BSA isn't even close to getting the attention of those that are left. But I do agree that the image problem is a wreck. Part of the problem is the need for some better PR. Maybe we can get our UK friends to ask the Duchess of Cambridge if she'd pop on over and visit some scout troops aro

The aspiration is no yellow snow.

We ask the scouts to knock down the roofs so nobody gets hurt playing on the snow and it caving in. They get more and more solid so it's difficult to completely knock it down after a day. And think about it. We walk into an area with 3' of pristine snow and create tracks and caves and tent slots all over the place. There's no way we can leave it the way it was.

Not sure if this is related, but I have a really nice axe and they explicitly said don't use a sledge hammer to push the head in further as the sidewalls of the head could split. That's also my half axe, so not sure if their full axe is not built with thicker walls.

If marching band is ever combined with scouting I will quietly exit. Sports, at a rec level could actually work. A patrol of soccer players could go look for other patrols in other troops for a pick up game. Or ultimate Frisbee. Or robotics. For those that enjoyed the activity but don't want to go full type A competitive, it could me more fun than a normal meeting. Lots of opportunities to learn useful side skills. How to have fun at a skill you suck at would be great.

A couple of comments. The video shows the use of a splitting maul. Few scouts learning to use an axe can even control a full sized axe, much less a maul. There are different sizes of axes. The sizes are 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and full. A 1/4 axe is a hatchet. A 3/4 axe is often sold as a "boy's axe" and is really good for younger scouts. I have a half axe (be careful how you say it) that I really like because I can hold it with one hand and, with a sharp blade, can split most of the wood I deal with. I didn't watch the whole video but something I noticed is that the guy is standing with his feet

@swilliams, I respect that you don't like how the LDS church wants to run their program. At the same time we need to respect their program.

Well, I'm not there yet. The whole premise of this thread is a bit antagonistic and given that, y'all have been fairly good. I have to agree with the comments that the BSA and LDS just grew apart. I know several LDS members that are disappointed with the split. I'm also guessing that the outdoors will not be used much in the future LDS program. That will be a shame but I'm not trying to make a world wide program. Now that I mention it, I guess there already is a world wide outdoor youth program. I think it's called scouts or something and it's doing real well. Maybe the BSA should figure

And hence, too much kool-aid drinking. I hope it's someone that can sell a lot of popcorn. I'm hoping Chapter 11 will force that change. Time to drain the kool-aid, so to speak.

@Onslow, my guess is you're getting a response you didn't expect. Hang in there, you're at least trying. It sounds like this culture you're seeing is new to you. Don't be so quick to judge. Keep listening and watching. There is goodness everywhere. If there's anyone that needs scouts it's these kids in the town you're describing. Nobody else is trying. So it would be great if you would. To those that see this as the usual tribalism in our country at the moment, all I can say is never waste a problem.

Once a year we hand deliver an addressed envelope and a flyer to a few thousand homes. We tell them if they put out their old x-mas tree on the curb we'll recycle it. In return we'd appreciate a donation. It's a good fundraiser, completely based on the honor system, and the scouts have a bunch of work to do.

Thanks, @Saltface. I suspected it was something along those lines. There are aspects about it that I really like. Primarily, motivation from within, not some mythical award. Also, it's much simpler and easier to explain. No parents are going to get wrapped up in pushing there kids to get eagle. It's kind of like Venturing. Skills are nothing more than preparation for doing something you want to do. They aren't a check box to get an award. On the other hand, many people, teens especially, don't know what they don't know so how do they get some guidance? I could see adults causing just as m

Are there Cliff notes for this? I got 30 seconds into it and it reminded me of talking to my 92 year old dad when he has something really important to tell me, but Can't. Get. To. The. Point. I skipped and sampled and all I got was kids can pick what they want to work on.

Maybe the national media issues do hurt scouting, as the view of scouting, by the parents that don't put their kids in scouts, is not positive. Hence, fewer new parents, fewer new leaders, online training. This is a national media issue. If national doesn't put anything out then they don't get ahead of their message and whatever bad media is put out by other people is the only message that all these parents get.

This is why you can ignore the parents. The scout might just turn out okay.

@RainShine, l agree that several months is too long. I also agree that finding more time to make this happen is also good. I'm just not sure about the details past that. Who is asking the new scouts what they would like to accomplish? And giving them some options? Play games, learn skills, earn a new rank? Typically they want to advance. Get them interested in taking ownership in their destiny. That's more important than when they get a rank, and the ranks will come from that as quickly as you might hope for. Do the new scouts, or the scouts that might sign off understand the process? I'm

I've seen fairly bad MB fairs and some better ones. Not sure I've seen anything great. Whether the focus is on interest or size of class isn't really the point, is it? What's the point in these fairs? Sure, we want the scouts to learn something and interesting counselors are always better than just grabbing someone and throwing them in, but don't we also want the scouts to work with a counselor at a level more than they get in the standard class environment. Introduce yourself, find out about the MB, what's required, talk to your SM, get the blue card filled out, get the book, read it, prepare

I've heard the same thing about only wearing uniform when fundraising with popcorn. Like you, we ignored it.

I think the game needs to be fun as well. The mindset of too many parents is that there's a trade-off between fun and purpose. It starts working when the two happen simultaneously. Maybe this is why it's so difficult to come up with a message that parents respond to. Who needs kids that know how to have fun in the outdoors? How will that possibly help them get a job? Which, BTW, is the only reason for extra curricular activities. Honor? Community? That won't pay the bills. That's what we're up against. Sorry to sound cynical but it's been a bad week for scouting for me.

I think everyone should mention their definition of cold weather camping. For us, the 20's are considered cool for September, but not that unusual. Cold is below 0. Umm, I don't want to take 20 minutes to put all that clothing back on. Wide mouth Gatorade bottle. Say what? That's one issue I've never seen. I'd be surprised as most watches are based on a crystal. They will lose power to the display before the timing circuit fails. Better yet, bury them in snow. Snow is a great insulator. If we left our large water bottles out they'd freeze solid. A better thing to do wi

I had to look this up. I wasn't sure it was in the original paper. It was the same except for the bold font. Anyway, this reminds me of a discussion I had with a group of people that are going to Rwanda where my wife and I sponsor a kid to go to school. They were talking about different kinds of poverty. The Africans have a material poverty. Many advance Western countries have a community poverty. This paper spells it out. Something else we talked about was the best way to help the people in Africa. Surprise, surprise, a lot of ideas were similar to developing leadership in a scout t

@Eagle94-A1, I think a lot of troops are having this problem. I think our district has shrunk by some 40% in the past 10 years or something. The troops don't lose anyone more than before but the packs are failing left and right because nobody will step up to lead. I'm also wondering how many neighborhood kids would be more likely to join scouts if their neighborhood friends were told about it at the same time. Rather than use Facebook to get the word out, use the Nextdoor app. Find a patrol first, then find a troop to plug into. In a way, making the patrol without finding a troop is the G