MattR

I think everyone should mention their definition of cold weather camping. For us, the 20's are considered cool for September, but not that unusual. Cold is below 0. Umm, I don't want to take 20 minutes to put all that clothing back on. Wide mouth Gatorade bottle. Say what? That's one issue I've never seen. I'd be surprised as most watches are based on a crystal. They will lose power to the display before the timing circuit fails. Better yet, bury them in snow. Snow is a great insulator. If we left our large water bottles out they'd freeze solid. A better thing to do with small water bottles is to insulate them, put boiling water in them, and put them on your thighs inside your bag. It'll keep you warmer most of the night. In the morning you'll have warm water to drink.

I had to look this up. I wasn't sure it was in the original paper. It was the same except for the bold font. Anyway, this reminds me of a discussion I had with a group of people that are going to Rwanda where my wife and I sponsor a kid to go to school. They were talking about different kinds of poverty. The Africans have a material poverty. Many advance Western countries have a community poverty. This paper spells it out. Something else we talked about was the best way to help the people in Africa. Surprise, surprise, a lot of ideas were similar to developing leadership in a scout troop. Don't tell them what they need. Help them find out what they need. Encourage them to solve their problems on their own, and don't jump in to save the day. One thing they did focus on a lot more than we talk about, was developing a relationship with the people you want to help. In fact that's the only thing we're going to do while there. Play with kids. Talk to parents. Enjoy their music. Letting them know they're not alone while solving their problems.

@Eagle94-A1, I think a lot of troops are having this problem. I think our district has shrunk by some 40% in the past 10 years or something. The troops don't lose anyone more than before but the packs are failing left and right because nobody will step up to lead. I'm also wondering how many neighborhood kids would be more likely to join scouts if their neighborhood friends were told about it at the same time. Rather than use Facebook to get the word out, use the Nextdoor app. Find a patrol first, then find a troop to plug into. In a way, making the patrol without finding a troop is the GS model. While I think a patrol should be with a troop, this would help bring friends together. A group of friends always makes for a stronger patrol.

One data point for you - my troop. $75 to the unit (we spent $220 per scout last year but fundraisers covered about half of that) $200 to our district (most districts are around $40, and I just found out ours is a very strong armed "suggestion") $15 per campout, except district run campouts which are $30 $350-$400 for summer camp (and anywhere from $350-$1200 for a high adventure trip) $15 for Merit badge event Gear and such sounds the same as us.

I don't think it's the money. If things were going great, membership was increasing, and volunteers were aplenty, nobody would mind that much. But it's just the opposite. Underlying all the angst is a desire for leadership. Everyone here believes in the program and if something came from national that really helped with membership and volunteers we'd be less grumpy. I'm not sure what the answer is. My gut says it's nothing major, more like focusing on making the message and program more succinct. Adapt training to busy families and a wide range of interest and backgrounds. Have vision.

The scouter's camp fire. Pull up a stump and join us.

True, but everyone here is rather passionate about scouting. Everyone seems to vent in their own way. One group not mentioned are those that didn't reply. It could be they don't care, or maybe they're wise enough to not worry about what they can't control.

Well then, you better stick around because we have a ton of good advice. My feeling about scout rank, especially for AOL's, is that it should be fairly quick. It's more a way to teach the scout about the advancement process because they already know the material. it's also a great way for the new scout to get to know his scout leadership. I'd say that only scouts should sign off on scout rank. Either his PL or troop guide, depending on how new scouts are incorporated into the troop. Since you're going to be the new SM, please ask us a lot of questions about the patrol method and aims vs methods. This is really critical and our experience is that it's typically not very well covered in whatever training you might have. Best of luck!

@5thGenTexan, you're clearly not having fun. One important question you haven't addressed is whether your son is having fun. If he is then he should stay. And you'd have more fun if you stayed with him. If he's not having fun then by all means, take a break. The real fun starts in scouts. But let's assume he's having fun and so you have to stay. Now the question is how do you have more fun. What it all boils down to, from the little I've seen, is that you're letting a lot of stuff bother you. This is not a critique of you, we all do this. We all want it to run smooth, and fun, and great. We've invested our heart and soul into this program because we believe in it so much. But that can be counter productive. The truth is we're all a bunch of volunteers with varying skill levels. Just an example: the parent that planned the B&G. It was expensive. Some things were wrong. People were upset. You could have done a better job. However, this parent tried. She volunteered. I bet she can learn and do better next time. And if not, so what? Do the scouts really care? I bet they don't. If you stand up front and make funny faces and they laugh, will anyone really care whether the cards were signed? Look at all these events from the level of your son. That's what's important. Other than the vaping guy, I'd say make peace with the rest. Sometimes community is the most important part of the program. Whether you keep volunteering is up to you, but I'd encourage you to figure out how to make scouts fun with your son. Trust me, one day he's going to leave home and then you're left with memories. Make them good.

I would really like to see what was covered in those 3 hours. Typical discussions, problems encountered, push back, examples, all of it. It would be fun to re-create it. I just helped with IOLS, teaching knife and axe, and all I could think was this should be a week long.

That's great! I can imagine it worked better than a basket as sliding off the end of the blade would be better than waiting for the basket to stop. Good for the scouts.

I once heard a CSE mention "getting out in front of the message." Same thing as ypt applies to what their product is. Yet I see nothing. If there is an advertising program I wonder if national creates media and it's up to each council to pay for local play. Does anyone know? It would explain why there's nothing near me, my council can't afford it. If I'm right, this model is a mistake. My guess is most councils are broke and don't have the experience to use advertising effectively.

We can't find enough volunteers to help run it. It's hugely disorganized but I'm just trying to, as the old SM minute says, help a few star fish get back into the ocean.

We do it in Feb, when the food bank says they need it most. Our council wants us to do it in Nov, so it matches up with the council in Denver and we get more press. Go figure.

Yep. Not my idea. I'm so far from cubs I really don't remember any of it.

I was talking to some LDS scouters in my district about what they have for youth compared to scouts and they said, other than merit badges, it's very similar. It's outdoors and youth led. I haven't looked at it though. If the only difference is Eagle then, sorry to say it, but that's no reason to stick around.

I think powderhorn is mostly high adventure skills. Climbing, backpacking, cycling, canoeing. So maybe there's no point on how to organize a high adventure trip in what I wanted. But the rest of it would be useful.

Yep. That replaced FOS. I told you my council is broke.

I'd say training. Think of all the most fun scouting activities and most of them require specialized, certified trainers. Aquatics, shooting, climbing .... Our most important goal is getting scouts to take care of themselves. That's what makes scouting unique to all other youth activities. Shouldn't it involve learning the best ways to reach that goal? I don't want to start another WB argument so let's call it Scouter's Peak, where adults are taught how to develop youth. Not SM specific training, which is really an introduction to scouts. Not woodbadge, which is trying to teach adults how to lead. But something to teach adults how to develop the youth. i.e., give us the tools to reach our aims. Spend an entire day on the nuts and bolts of patrol method. A day for the rest of the methods as well as turning any skill development into a game. A day or two using those skills to learn more in-depth outdoor skills. A day for developing high adventure trips. This is what I thought, or hoped, WB would be. I'm going to help teach IOLS this weekend. The I stands for Introduction. There should be training for that one person in a troop that really want to excel at these skills. They will be the ones that develop the scout's skills. How to do it. How to teach it. How to make it fun. How to encourage using it. I have an hour to do all the knife and axe skills for both Baloo and Scouts. It's going to be a very brief introduction. "This is what it looks like. If you want to learn more, please call me." As for policies, I have no qualms with saying your scouts can't do anything on their own if you don't have an adult that is fully trained.

We're now at $60 to national $200 to council $50 to unit (which we haven't changed in about 10 years) I'm hoping the council will be limited to the $60. That would be a big win for us.

I couldn't handle it anymore. I fixed the title. I don't doubt this at all. From national's view there are a million kids out there with no training whatsoever and hundreds of thousands of adults with no training either. They don't trust us. What could be changed so they could trust us? "Don't ask why, ask why not." I think that view would help improve the program. When I let a scout lead without adults around it wasn't just any scout, I had to trust them.

Just a guess, but maybe the Circle 10 council is a long way from the sea? Like in the panhandle?

Since you made everything else from scratch, try getting a spaetzle maker and making your own. Some 20 years ago someone from Germany brought us one. It's easy and tastes good. We're still using the same one.

Our scouts like the open mic part of reviewing events. That's where the funny stories come out. It's usually a case of you had to be there but the scouts have fun. Make it a celebration as much as praising scouts for a job well done. Yes.

When they used to regularly come to CU, where I was, and just kick the tar out of us. Them and Nebraska. Those days taught me the benefit of having the outdoors as a passion. Yep, pain can be a good lesson.