fred johnson

This is more a safety issue than a dollar issue. Safety - It does need to be reported and addressed. The goal is that the next time this camp happens it's not a person that's hit. Dollars - There are many ways this can be paid. I think the key thing is I'd ask directly to the DE (and if no DE, than the scout executive) that you get reimbursed. If it was me in the scout office, I'd want to get this paid.

"mbs" to have pre-requisites" ... I'm slightly scared at that idea. But then again, I'm open to it slightly for several reasons. Some thoughts.... Wilderness Survival MB can be a fluff MB. I've seen scouts earn it and really question whether they learned or grew. But then I saw those same scouts years later building their own camping survival pack and planning to go into the woods and try it out. So, the MB must have taught them something. Some pre-requisites make sense. ... Maybe ... First Aid .... maybe ... could be a pre-requisite for many badges. then the badges could just review from first aid what is appropriate for their badge. Minimize redundant content. ... Camping ?? ... for one or two ... I've seen too many scouts that take a few years to earn camping because of the number of nights involved. Maybe use it as a pre-req for Wilderness Survival. But I'd hate to see it as a pre-req for hiking or many other MBs that the scout might like to try. Communication or Personal Mgmt ... As a pre-req for troop leadership ?? no. My main objection to pre-requisites is that it moves the MB program from picking and choosing by the scout to a structured set of rules like going for a college degree. IMHO, the MB program is more for picking and choosing things that might interest the scout.

I don't see more requests for service projects. What I'm seeing is scouts looking for easy eagle projects by asking beneficiaries that have had projects before. Beneficiaries have a list of desired projects and even have the materials. They want scouts to provide the labor to get them done. But I don't think it's the beneficiaries that are the issue. I think the scouts too often look for the easy Eagle project.

At first I thought this was a joke about democrats. Then I read it on NPR and MSNBC. So it must be true. Okay. Seriously. It creeps me out that this is true.

As for summer camp you already paid for ... is it a troop run camp or a council run camp the troop attends? If a council run camp, then the troop only faces losing their deposit. And they only lose the deposit if they don't have any late sign-ups. My experience is if the troop manages it well, they can be out zero dollars and could refund you. Or at worst, refund you what they would lose. But as CalicoPenn says ... if you can't get your money out, explain it to the council and indicate that you have already paid for camp and would like to camp with another troop as you've already paid. My key point ... The dollars should not be the stopping point. Money can be worked out. Just decide earlier than later so the troop doesn't spend the money.

Huh. Well I learn something every day. Here's a PDF. On page seven is a screen shot of the page for recording rank dates. I've cleared out dates before. I thought it became effective. The PDF says to contact the registrar. Huh .... not how I remember it. http://www.miamivalleybsa.org/files/d/usr/1162/Wright%20Brothers/BSA%20Online%20Advancement%20Walk-through.pdf I'll have to ask our registrar next time I'm in.

I'll do one or two one-on-one merit badges with my own son. But the value is really working with others. So if I can make the experience special, I'll work the merit badge with him. I definitely don't want to do more than just a few badges with my own kid. But that's me.

Why would you need to travel to HQ to fix stuff? Simply log onto BSA online advancement and back out any advancements. You can "almost" completely edit a scout's advancement that way. I just went in and re-confirmed it's that easy. Same with scoutbook. Clear out the date earned and BSA should clear out the date earned.

One caveat that could make a big difference. ScoutBook is moving forward with an automatic bi-directional sync with BSA's main advancement database. That would be a huge feature to most units. Here is ScoutBook's posting about it. https://www.scoutbook.com/mobile/blog/73/scoutbook-advancement-record-sync-with-internet-advancement-pilot-update/ Seems like just months away. But considering the previous post. ... Admiral, if we go "by the book". like Lieutenant Saavik, years could seem like months.

I fully agree. BSA has a horrible reputation with technology. Especially for ScoutBook. Years waiting for basic simple improvements. Requests for what I'd consider simple enhancements critical to a functioning troop are effectively DOA. Even worse, as ScoutBook is BSA owned now, ScoutBook has multiple times prioritized BSA's needs over unit needs. This is frustrating as ScoutBook is supposed to be a unit focused tool. If you want detailed control over advancement, TroopMaster is a better tool as it has reports, exports, details, etc. If you can give up a bit of control and live with what you get, ScoutBook is a great way to go.

I view these less as clarifications and definitely not change in expectations. IMHO, the changes explicitly state what should have already been clearly read. For example you cite, the project is required before being 18. That's the requirement. The adult signature is paperwork. If the scout had his project done before turning 18 but did not get the scoutmaster or beneficiary signature before turning 18, it should not be a wall stopping the scout from getting Eagle. I think this is a good consistent clarification. The scout's journey of advancement (learning and doing) is to be done before turning 18. Paperwork. Rank advancement submittal. BORs. etc. Can happen after you turn 18. The real issue is the council you reference requiring paperwork being submitted before the scout turns 18. That was never a national requirement ... in the last fifteen years that I know. I pray it was never the grounds for a scout not earning Eagle.

These are interesting clarifications. 4.2.3.5: Added clarifcation that unit leaders cannot require a Scout to provide certain documentation as a precondition to a unit leader (Scoutmaster) conference. 4.2.3.6: Clarifed that counting service hours provided elsewhere in the community is not “double counting†and they should be counted toward advancement.

I don't want to take this on a tangent, but I think it's a great question. Those of us with "trained" patches get no where near enough training on how to deal or advise on things like this. I really wish there was more well done training on things like this. Beyond this, I have some ideas, but I'll pass to see what others say.

Ummm .... Just how many memorized sets of values do we need to be a scout ? It becomes ridiculous. Here's the order in terms of priority and usefulness in my mind. Pledge of allegiance Scout Oath Scout Law Scout Motto Scout Slogan Philmont Grace ... or others Outdoor Code Hygienic precept Snoring statue Meal maxim Yeah, none of our scouts or leaders know the outdoor code as it was not in the requirements when any of our scouts started. We value scout oath and law ... motto ... slogan, but the outdoor code will take the next generation to start valuing it. It's part of changing culture. It was not in the book when we started and it's just not useful as it's already at the core of who we are as scouts.

My first boy scout camp out ever. The senior scouts kept telling the new scouts what would burn. We kept finding the brand new scouts running around camp to find samples of what would burn. ... Yeah, the figured out the hand sanitizer stuff really quick.

It would be fun to have one. But it's more my jealousy than actually choosing one. If I'm going to pull something to camp, it had better have space for camping gear, etc. If we do more than just troop cooking, then we need multiple trailers. One for adults. One for each scout patrol. That's a lot of trailers. I could see really enjoying it if it was for me and one or two others and we could put our great in the trailer too. Or it would be great for a large picnic environment. Otherwise, I just don't see the purpose.

My ideal is the scoutmaster at the end of his SMC walks the scout to the CC and says this young man needs a BOR. Then, it's the CC's job (or equiv person) to make it happen. Now it's not always the ideal as the SMC isn't always the last step or one of many other reasons. But that's my ideal.

My approach is scouts solve scout sized stuff and adults solve adult sized issues. Usually scouts can deal with way more than you think they can, but some things are not fair for them to resolve. In the later category, I'd put ... Resolving disorganization among the adult unit leaders Resolving non-supportive scout leaders But you should always not assume those are the reasons ... Maybe your son needs to speak up and emphasize his request for a BOR. Maybe it's somehow just not being realized. Did he actually explicitly ask the the scoutmaster for a rank BOR ? Was his request clearly acknowledged ? In our troop, the scout's responsibility is to request the BOR. Once it's requested, it's 100% the adult leaders responsibility to make it happen. No call me later to schedule it. No "next troop meeting". Once it's requested, it's the adult leaders job to make it happen. So with that .... Step zero ... Make sure scoutmaster conference is done and signed off. If not, request it. Step 1 ... Talk with your son and explain that even adults don't always get things right. That sometimes life gets the better of people. Ask him to be understanding and kind. This is a life lesson that will serve him well. Step 2 ... Have your son call as requested. Hopefully it ends here by the review happening and his earning rank. Step 3 ... If he has trouble or if it's scheduled and then doesn't happen, then you step in to talk with the committee chair to ask what's happening. Politely. Friendly. Very sensitive to the situation. Just explain that he's been asking for many weeks and then called as asked. See if there is a reason your son keeps getting blown off. I'd also explain that your son fulfilled his duty by requesting it (multiple times) and that you expect the adult leaders now own the job to make it happen.

There's a difference between not using all the methods and implementing it different than BSA. Anyway ... good luck in your future endeavors.

Use of program - Yes BSA has been flexible. Units can emphasize areas and do more or less. Advancement related - BSA has been very clear and even more clear recently. Units can't add to the requirements. A rank requirement of six month in a POR is six months in a POR. Your unit can choose to have elections every three months or six months or every year or even just elect as people step down. That's fine. But when the scout hits six months, the POR rank requirement is complete. In terms of Stosh's post, it's a clearly well document francise rule and expectation.

I wish I could find the root document that we've learned from years ago. It had a philosophy behind each SMCs for each rank. Identified different purposes for each. Here is an okay version from BSA scouting web site. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/questions.pdf There are lots of guides for SMCs and BORs.

Not condescending. But yes I am trying to mask my emotions as it doesn't help. I don't like these situations. Units creating rules they can only enforce with the ignorance and submission of their own scouts. My experience is that BSA, councils and CO's are absolutely not adversaries ... usually. It does happen at times though. Usually in situations like you describe.

It's not about PORs being only BSA PORs. Lots of troops have special unique PORs. That's absolutely fine. It's about the specific practice of possibly not crediting a scout because they step away after nine months. That's mis-representing BSA's advancement program to shore up an individual troop whim. Be less advancement focused by using BSA's advancement program as documented and spend your energy on getting your scouts outdoors and doing things. Requiring more or different advancement expectations is being overly advancement focused and just not scout friendly. It's about delivering the program as designed as documented and as promised. If you have a BSA recognized POR and the scout wants credit for it after six months in the job and the rank requirement is for six months, then he's fulfilled the rank at six months. Requiring a year or equivalently not crediting him with the POR or not crediting because they step away after nine months is wrong. Period. If there is over emphasis on the advancement, it's with those manipulating advancement to shore up their own program. Anyway, this is turning nasty and not progressing. I should step away.

Also using SOAR in multiple units. Great tool for managing weekly emails, email lists, calendar, roster, sign-ups, etc. It's not an advancement tracking tool, but it's really well setup for a unit committee to have the right infrastructure.

My experience is things get muddied because people purposely create mud to obscure their actions.. Similar, discussions fail when people are set to do it their own way. If your COR wants to create different non-BSA requirements to support a different non-BSA rank, go for it. Just tell your scouts that your troop doesn't use BSA advancement and chooses to use your own advancement program. Be honest and open. Then, I wouldn't argue with you and I could understand. But if you claim credit for BSA advancement and ranks, follow BSA.