fred johnson

Hardest thing is being humble enough to get used to how another troop does things. Every troop is different. You might be used to things being done one way, but then another troop does it different. It takes time to get used to another troop.

Qwazse is right. Good description. But I'd also have a discussion with the SM. Make sure he's on board with it as you need his signature. If he hesitates or won't give a clear answer, try again. If you still can't figure it out, find a troop that will help you close out the rank.

There is another path. Separate him from troop activities, meetings and camp outs. That would protect your scouts. If he completed the requirements except scout spirit, maybe let him define a path that would satisfy "reasonable" expectations for that. IMHO, time participating in your troop is over. Perhaps, helping him complete his rank in these last eight months would provide a chance for life lessons. But I do believe you need to separate him from active participation in your troop to protect everyone.

When helping a scout advance, it is wrong to worry about a slap in the face to all eagle scouts ? does he deserve to be part of this elite group ? is he one of the finest examples ? The keys for advancement are Has he fulfilled the requirements "Scout spirit" ... People are not perfect. Is he trying to live by the scout oath and law? Being reasonable, could you let him progress for a time period and restore some trust. The keys here are Can you influence and help the scout ? Can he meet your reasonable expectations ? Do you put scouts at risk ? Will the scout hurt the troop or drive away scouts ?

Agreed. I just question the original assertions that single-gender programs serve each gender better. Assertions are often wrong when opposite whelming numbers.

Wow! You sure that was not your troop doing it instead of the council. I'd be surprised if the council staff had time or the council had the budget to do those checks. That's alot of work. For many years now, we've been using online advancement. There's no place to put the counselor name. The paper form for recording advancement doesn't have it either. Sounds like a troop practice and not a council practice.

The big question ... What does your gut tell you? You've known the scout for a long time. I sense you are asking in this forum as you are saddened by what your gut tells you. Every youth caught with drugs in school is effectively arrested. It's part of the process. Routing to the juvenile court system is normal. Sometimes there is an intervention process. But, if there is large volume, it could be different. I am not sure schools care "user" versus "dealer" as it's a fine line with it being friend-to-friend and who-agreed-to-do-what and who initiated the brilliant idea. I think the "volume" tells more. My gut says the scout needs to go elsewhere to spend his time. Second time ... parents hostile in the past .... It's time to protect your scouts, your troop reputation, your volunteers and clearly communicate it's not acceptable in the troop. I'd ask the "committee chair" to talk with the parents letting them know the decision. It's not about ditching the responsibility. It's about you the SM still being a friend for the scout ... even if he's a former scout. The CC or COR should do the dirty work.

And in the last 100 years, almost every school, college, university and work place has gone co-ed. Go figure.

District does sign-off on the eagle application. The signature is on the Eagle application.

I agree with wanting to help and be a friend. I just put things in reverse order. If he's going to be a member of my troop, he needs a path for advancement. So for me, the question is whether he can productively be part of the troop or does he put our influence with the other scouts at risk. Or put their health, safety and future at risk. Does he want to be part of scouts? Does he value what scouts value? I fully agree. You can't tell what is in a person's heart. But by their past actions (that you carefully discuss privately with others), you can usually project the future. Some people are attracted to the edge of society. Some people are attracted to that which they are told not to do. Some search it out. But for my scouting unit, if I think I can have him in scouts without risking the other scouts or the troop, then I feel I need to give him a path for advancement. The one challenge would be "scout spirit". There would need to be something (time, action, discussion) that would make me willing to sign it.

Sad. I'm not sure what the DE was thinking. The only possible results were to let it happen or it would die. It would never be a council fundraiser unless the council had staff to run and administer it. Units pretty much never run council level activity. Maybe a district level. But districts don't do large fundraisers outside popcorn and FOS. Futher, the CO would never want the council running an event on property they owned or rented after they offered it to the troop. This was a lose-lose situation for the DE and he should have moved on.

I fully agree. Separate Eagle and his external punishment. Be a friend. It's not your job to punish the scout for external issues. At best, I'd use "scout spirit" requirement. Let him know it's hard to sign off that he's living by the scout oath and law when these things happen. Perhaps, suggest a short window of time through which he can live by the oath and law. Then, you would sign. Overall though, be a friend. Not your job to give further punishments. But ... you do need to protect your troop. We all want to help every scout, but a few bad scouts can kill recruitment, hurt retention and the troop's future.

I wish you the best. I've seen this situation and it's hard. I'd have to ask a few questions (or more) to comment About the scout How old is he? Do you know the boy from previous years as troop parent, ASM or other? Is there someone you can ask about the boy's scouting career? Does the boy want to be in scouts? Or is he "parentally" driven? Does the boy value what scouts is teaching him? How is the boy affecting your troop? Is he a good or bad influence? Are current or future parents hesitant about your troop because of his actions? Does he bring this stuff or behavior issues into your troop? I ask these questions as you need to judge ... whether this is a minor issue that does not affect his scouting, whether it delays his advancement whether it affects his membership Generally, you need to take a hard line on somethings. Hard line on the behavior is not acceptable in scouting. If the scout can't work within those boundaries, he needs to find somewhere else to spend his time. He can and will drive other scouts and their families away. Bad behavior can be taught to other scouts. As for advancement, depending on the situation and how it's being handled you can delay advancement? This is really 100% a judgement call ... except for there needs to be a hard line. The behavior is not acceptable in scouting. Further, scouting is not part of someone's treatment plan. You don't spend time in scouting to kick a habit. We just don't have the resources to support such treatment. But if you can function within expected boundaries, they you are fine. I wish you the best. This is definitely a case where the details provide the guidance.

GTA is pretty clear. It's the in-between people and direction they give and the time to put that direction in place. Only scouts raising $$$ or more. Then, only if $$$ and you are raising funds in one of these ways. Then, everyone needs to do the form. Then, swing back to the GTA words. It's hard as the communication takes six months to a year to get everyone back on the same boat. So for the last few years, everyone has been out of wack with current expectations because expectations change and it takes time to get the word out. That's why I like referring to GTA and sticking with that. But even GTA can open the door for interpretation. GTA also says ....

District doesn't sign the project final report. The district chance to review the project is the EBOR.

Same for our packs. Huge issues because the council only collects what they are concerned with. Then the pack has to upset the family when they say "Well, you really owe this much more.". It's misrepresenting the cost and insulting to the unit leaders. It instantly creates a separation and hard feelings between the council and the unit. It's just wrong. I should correct myself. On recruiting night, the pack collects what the pack needs. Period. We've never been told we can only collect BSA membership dues. The issue is with the new council / national online self-registration system. If someone joins the pack through that system, they only pay "part" of the cost. So then they are a member of BSA .... but .... The pack doesn't consider them part of the pack until they pay pack dues. I just don't understand what national / council are thinking. Are they saying units can't collect membership dues? I've never seen BSA say units can't collect dues. So if a unit has membership dues, can you still be a unit member and not pay the unit dues? It seems wrong to promote this in-between undefined quasi state of being a BSA member but not fully a member of the registered unit.

Fully agree. Also by pursuing it, you will create negative experiences for the adults that absolutely will trickle down and affect the scouts. Positive vibe and healthy adult-to-adult relationships are more important than trying to recover funds. Focus on future. Providing good experiences. And, providing good financial future decisions.

It's a positive that comforts me. EBOR members made a mistake in the scout's favor to approve him. I'd rather have mistakes in the scout's favor than against. EBORs should have know the path toward addressing failures. But if a failure happens, I'd rather have it made in favor of the scout.

Sounds positive. Not necessarily perfect, but perhaps you have a chance to continue in this unit..

Scamming ... Yeah, I've seen that both in scouts and at work. Essentially, the person wants success based on the end product being accepted and avoid evaluating the idea, the effort, the planning or if it was even a quality product. And, then acting as a victim if you push back because of their circumventing expectations. In scouts ... I've seen a few EBORs where the scout just didn't do a quality job planning and developing the concept of his project. In fact, I've seen some where the scout effectively just put in worse than junk in his plan. If he had been on my team at work, I question whether I could trust him to lead again. He'd require more observation until that trust is earned again. And, I would have not signed off on his work product. I would have extra work now finding a way to get him or someone else to fix it. The challenge is EBORs want to pass the scout. They want to give him that positive experience and recognition. I think the front end and back end need to be taken more seriously. The proposal reviewers need to emphasize the planning, developing and leading. The project report reviewers and the EBOR members need to be willing to push back on poor quality.

Sadly, I'll agree. I'd just like to remove the word "leaders" as too often adults that just show up feel as leaders for the youth. But then again, sometimes even the SMs don't get it.

Yeah. I've seen things like this before. People can justify many actions. A leader could have the opinion that they put in so much work that their own son should get to go to camp for free. Or, a den leaders could have helped raise so much money that they have the opinion they have a right to spend more of the money. I know one unit leader that had the opinion they had the right to spend the funds they raised for the unit to the tune of thousands of dollars and high adventures for the dad and kids. Essentially, almost 100% raised went to family and almost zero to the unit It nearly killed the unit. But leaders changed and now it's one of the best units in our area. .... There are many ways to justify what you have described. Your case seems like a failure of leadership and process and not necessarily a misuse of money. Leadership and the process to spend the money should have been better thought out and executed. The idea and decision should have been shared with the committee. The treasurer should have spotted the issue too. Maybe everyone would have arrived at the same opinion. Maybe everyone would have been accepting if communicated right. It's best to do as earlier advised. State the current funds available to the pack and track it to the best of your ability. The past is the past and you weren't the CM then. Be responsible for your time as CM, not his. Onward, help the pack account for the funds. As for your future with the unit, can you just move on from this? Can you leave this be? Do you build relationships and trust with the current leaders? If not, it is best to move on.

Hugely agree. IMHO, more than the requested number of adults at camp actually hurt the program. Adults keep trying to find a purpose. To interject. To provide their opinion. To help. The best summer camps we've had is where we had the camp minimum adults there. Sometimes we had to switch off. But generally, the bare minimum adults was the best. Way too often we see way too many adults and adults that are not in-sync with the scoutmaster and the rest of the program. THINK ! How many times do we see committee members regularly interacting with scouts? It should be scoutmaster. If he needs help or isn't there, it should be the main ASM. That's it. You don't need one for advancement. One for fire. One for quartermaster. One for aquatics. One for auditing scout activities. That's make work and it adds stress for the scouts and takes away their independence. Adults go to town, golf, eat-out, etc because they don't have a real role. Politely suggest they stay home or get them a different camp site.

I get texts from my older sons regularly during the day. And, they keep their phone silenced pretty much all the time. I used to hear that teachers would threaten to confiscate the phone. Now, I think it's just reflected in grades. --> Ya don't listen == Ya don't get good grades.

Normal. It's less about missing home and more about a coping mechanism. If they know they can get out of an uncomfortable situation by acting less mature or acting like they need help, they will.