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I agree with Hawkwin. I sympathize with Ms. Ireland, and since girls will be able to earn Eagle in the near future, I wish she could have the chance as well. But in all fairness, she can't. They don't even have the 11-17 girls' program set up yet, and I can see why it will take the 18 months or so it is going to take to set it up. As we discussed with the new rules on Eagle palms, there is always going to be the "last person" who either had to follow the old rules or isn't eligible at all. Unfortunately, Ms. Ireland is that "last person," or one of them. I think BSA needs to hold the lin

Well if they're "just" dollars, I'd be happy to be the custodian of those dollars, if you're offering.

New Assistant Chief Scout Executive and new Division Directors? I am glad they are hiring people to oversee the changes, But I hate to see new levels of administration added, when resources could be spent closer to the boys!

Have all the boys sign a troop necker and date it.

Its the ladder of advancement past the glass ceiling!

A potential lesson for either Ireland, or if she does get special treatment, anyone else that is excluded. Life isn't fair. While I would like to see her given the chance to get Eagle, I think both her and the family would show an incredible amount of maturity if they simply said that Ireland helping other girls obtain the chance to get such is "Eagle enough."

If they bend the rules to accommodate the first girl there is going to be a lot of screaming and yelling from our Troop's Scouts and Scout parents about how we and BSA have been making THEM jump through all these hoops without exception. How will they react? I think a few may quit in discuss but more likely adults will relent and grease the skids for those boys remaining. She may have been doing the same things but she was not a legal scout, sorry. My son#2 just aged out and wants to continue being a Boy Scout, not an adult leader, not a venturer, but the rules say 18 and out. Awarding t

Stosh, if the recent actions of National has shown anything it is not really 'my' program it is their game and rules and they can change it when they want to. But yes the scouts (and it tends to be a subset) are my scouts. There still some boys I might want to call up for lunch just for a check in, or call over if I see them around town. And there are the ones who you never really considered that you connected with who walk up to you in public and shake your hand (or even hug you) and tell you the really appreciated it you (or give a belated apology for being extra-difficult). THAT is getting

Since we got a negative sterotype of old school Scouters, let me offer this negative stereotype of new volunteers. You have these just crossed over parents who had little to no interaction with the troop their sons have joined who try and take over. Since they never visited the troop, let alone camped with them, while their sons were Webelos, they do not understand the "unorganized chaos" of the Patrol Method. They complain that the leaders are not doing an effective job and want the Scouters to jump in and do stuff that the Scouts are fully capable of doing. Just not up to an adult stand

"Junior Leader Training," in the late 1940s, 1950s and early 1960s was a week-long outdoor leadership and Scoutcraft course based on a B.S.A. syllabus and offered by council, perhaps through a district of the council. Those learners completing the course received the hexagonal "Green Bar"/ JL [junior leader"] patch from National Supply Service. (Shown with Staff rocker.) In the 1970s, B.S.A. (and the U.S. Army) adopted a national training program for youth leaders called, successively, Troop Leader Development Conference, Troop Leader Training Conference, and Junior Leader Traini

Really? Do you know how many scout coffee mugs I have in my cupboard? Oh, wait a minute, that gives me an idea on how to clean out my cupboard. Thanks for the suggestion.....

I don't know what the big deal is about ladders. I fell off a 50' ladder once as a kid. .... good thing I was only on the second rung.

Maybe this would be a convenient occasion to consider leaving the Native American ceremonies and nomenclature to the people who invented them, and come up with something of our own. We might even consider reducing the ceremonial aspect, regardless of what "theme" is chosen. Full disclosure, I have not been involved with the OA other than doing the ordeal when I was a Scout. I never really participated after that. I think I've seen it called "sash and dash" in this forum. But that's my opinion, anyway.

I have friends that missed Eagle by a few weeks or months. Should they whine a s complain to national to get special treatment to get their Eagle? These were guys I was in tigers with. Some had good excuses for not making it with things well beyond their control. If they make this girl and Eagle I will send my badge in. It won’t be worth anything if they let her in. It will be a patch that can now be bought with the right attorney and parents willing to crusade for their kids. The rank is becoming worthless.

Slippery slopes on membership vs program requirements. To use sports as an analogy, we've decided to allow gay kids "play", gay adults "coach" in our sports league. That doesn't alter the rules of the game. Letting the Ireland family bully the BSA into changing program requirements is changing the rules for one "Player". Like if in soccer one player can use their hands and nobody else can. It breaks the game.

Live feed link https://livestream.com/bsa/nationalcouncil/videos/167216449

Exactly, we are all suckers for that sort of thing.

Terrible idea. Sorry, she's just not the right age at the right time. It sucks, but it is what it is. Eagle is not a measurement of being a good Scout or a good person, and she should be comfortable with the fact she is both of those things, but not an Eagle Scout. If they make this exception I'd be hard pressed to see how the flood gates of exceptions just bursts open.

This "my" thing was a pet peeve of the late great OldGreyEagle. Somewhere on another plane of existence, he is trying to get an Internet connection and tell us it's "the boys I serve."

I hope it is under 4'. From the G2SS: *Step stools, with one or two steps, are permissible for use by youth if the total height is 4 feet or less "Cubs, someday when you are a Star Scout or Life Scout you will be allowed to use one of these ladder-thingies"

Yes, the obvious symbolism must have gone right past me.

I think that could be a good thread: Scout uniforms from around the world: goofy or not goofy? Not really a thing for me. I liked some of the 1970's Pier Cardin styling (berets and belt loops) but also like it when some of the boys wear the retro all green uniforms that make them look like park rangers. I got mixed feelings about the current one as have been re-hashed over and over on this site over the years.

You never know, my son actually earned one non-required MB twice at summer camp, 2 or 3 years apart. I think it was Geology. He forgot he had earned it the first time. Not one of his prouder moments. But he didn't get the actual MB patch the second time, so it didn't go on his sash. (And of course it doesn't "count.")

Mighty crisp looking scout pants in the photo; like they just came from the scout store. Well if you want girls to feel welcome maybe they can use some pictures from the Troops that were free range beta testers of the concept this whole time. Just as valid as models. But they might have used the same uniforms. As for two Camping merit badges, my boys ages out with 3 or 4 months of nights out of camping maybe they deserved an extra. Using a real scout may result in a fake spoof merit badge in a shot.

My understanding, Ms. Ireland wants admission into Boy Scouts now so she can meet all the same Eagle requirements by her 18th birthday. Time is not on her side.

That said Wisconson I have seen what you have experienced in our OA Lodge where we had to do a merge and one Lodge was more adult run and the other (and in my opinion just more fun) was youth run. Any merge is tricky...someone has to give up some turf...but some of the grumpy old men drove the terrific youth leadership away. And those terrific young men have plenty of better things to spend their time on if not wanted and some of the old timers, who are retired, know they can wait them out.

I am just thankful to know that I'm not alone with this kind of experience. There are a lot of wonderful, helpful, kind people in Scouting, and then there are a few kind and well meaning people who might just be grumpy lifers.

If they bend the rules for her, then why not change the whole 18 years old and out (seems arbitrary...right?). Maybe make retro Eagles for those that never attained the rank. I mean maybe the young man (or woman) could not find a troop that fit their needs. So let's make an exception. Maybe they were ADHD and could not effectively track the 12 weeks of chores so they did not complete Family Life...so let's make an exception. They were really busy and never were able to get to a city council meeting so they never got Cit in the Community back in the day, so let's make an exception. Etc E

Either way, it makes good press for a struggling program. I'm sure the win-win means National and the girl. What about the rest of the program?

Hmmm..... I do believe I have more experience than anyone on this forum working with co-ed youth programs. Anyone out there been able to successfully hold a Venturing Crew together for more than 13 years? Not many I'm sure. The He-man Women Hater part of me has nothing to do with women, but has everything to do with trying to preserve the unique nature of BSA in our society. A "safe-place" (borrowing from today's rhetoric) for boys to focus on developing a caring moral character in today's society. Well, now that that has been changed, there's no real reason to play the charade of BOY Scou

It takes two to tango. In many respects @SSF and @Eagle94-A1 are correct. The clash of generations has been around since day one. The problem is not that the Old Guard is stoically entrenched or every Newbie Parent is looking to gain some advantage for their scout, it's the fact that neither of them of them are willing to get on the same page and work at doing what's best for all the boys in the unit. For centuries, the conflict has settled down on the cusp of level 4, sometimes slipping into level 5. Level 4 is the Game of Conflict and Level 5 is Divorce. The old guys think it's fine

Not sure where you get the facts to leap to this erroneous canard. I fully supported female commissioned Scouters as a District Chair. Please note that I gave largely stayed out of the "end of the world" thread, as I went through that almost thirty years ago when we got female uniformed Scouters and I appointed several to district jobs on merit, yet here we are, as I already noted. The World did not end. I actively helped convinced National to allow our NYLT course in 2010 to have two female participants a year early so they could staff the first official year of female particip

Please take this as presented in the most respectful way. The only time I refer to "my" scouts is when I am distinguishing them from other scouts. Otherwise "my" is not a common part of my vocabulary. The program isn't mine, it's the boys'. The troop isn't mine, it's the boys'. The activities are not mine, they are the boys'. etc. I guess I learned that a long time ago in a place far away. My parents held no interest, no claim, no involvement in my scouting experience. They didn't drop me off at the door and take off. I rode my bike or I didn't go. I paid my own way except for my ori

Actually, I was addressing your comments about chauvinistic male leaders when I said the girls will lose out. @Stosh is exactly right when he says the boys will lose out. I suspect he's talking about the degradation of the single-sex Scouting program that has been so successful, and the erosion of places where guys can go to "be guys" without people thinking that's a bad thing. If you think the "new parents" (I assumed you imply these are the parents of girls) will suddenly sign up, then you and I have two TOTALLY different experiences in Scouting. Whether incoming guys or girls, whether

BSA 2017: Be Prepared. For Life. BSA 2018: It is what it is.

That was a rule in the 80's? Wow. I feel like 90% of the things I did in my late 80's / 90's era scouting were against the rules.