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Lot of good comments Summary is the BSA (SA??) has not fully defined what it is and what they do. When I joined way back when it was a game with a purpose, we had adventures, learned things, sampled many different hobbies and interests, and most importantly learned to work in groups and take care of ourselves. As we matured we went from follower to leader. Over the years the BSA strayed from that to want to become the swiss army knife of youth groups. We do everything. Also more focus on advancement and formal learning and less emphasis on experiential learning. 1/2 the required

Welcome to the forum, @Eloisefig. That's certainly no fun. It sounds like you've already made up your mind and I can't blame you. Good luck. But I'm not sure how much better luck you're going to have elsewhere. It seems to me that every troop I know of is struggling. Anyway, I few observations: In your meeting with the SPL and ASPL you dumped a whole lot of new ideas on them that they likely don't understand if they've never seen it before. Babies don't take smaller steps then older children, they stumble around and crash a lot. Sometimes they need to be caught before they crack the

How about going back to an earlier version?

I would say my troop is pretty outdoorsy. We camp 10/12 months, with a lock in IF possible in December and 2 weekends of Scouting For Food in February, being the 2 months we do not camp. Even during COVID, we continued to meet, virtually and outside, had monthly day trips in the outdoors, and even did our own summer camp. Yes we car camp, but we also backpack, cycle, and do canoeing and whitewater activities. And the Scouts pick Summer Camps with the program they want, with the only caveat being it has to be within an 8 hour drive. The last 2 batches of Webelos that visited, the activitie

To be honest, I think the program is too easy to get wrong and consequently scouts are not joining or are leaving because they're not having fun when they're younger or not being challenged when they're older. It's just that simple. Add to that the economy and work environment (always on) and the parents aren't having fun either. The program is confusing, contradictory and looks like it's been evolving over a hundred years in high level committee meetings. @Jameson76's comment that the BSA needs to focus on what the program is really rings true to me. If it's teamwork/ patrol method and

I have been told that Scouting has been my surrogate family, with the adults in my life being surrogate fathers, the Scouts in my youth as surrogate brothers, and depending upon what age as an adult I was, me serving in a older brother or father role. I have served in various roles for over 30 years, and until recently also had a passion for Scouting. Read some of my posts over the past 5 years so see issues. I have rebuilt so much over the years, and the current state of Scouting is deeply depressing: declining membership, inability to get council support, ad nauseum. My troop is dying

18 Eagle required MBs can be done fully/nearly fully indoor while 4 (cooking, camping, hiking and cycling) have substantial outdoor requirements. BSA lost me on "scouting is outdoors" when they added Citizenship in Society merit badge. Most of my Eagle Scouts have said Wilderness Survival should be Eagle Required but yet BSA went with another discuss/research/report type badge. In addition, my Troop was the only one to camp outdoors during our recent district's Klondike. In the past the Patrols camping outdoors would be awarded more points...not this year. In fact, the Patrols who did

25+ years from now, folks will still be saying "Boy Scouts," "BSA," etc. Just look at Venturing and all the older names that had nothing to do with the Venturing program still in use, i.e. 'venture crews," "Venture Scouts," etc. And I can tell you from the discussions i have had since it was announced, folks with years of irreplaceable knowledge, skills, abilities, time, and treasure are upset. In my neck of the woods we have lost a lot of folks over recent membership changes, and finding replacements is difficult to impossible. Best money example is the current FOS goal is 5%, yes FIVE

I think that changing the name to appease simpletons isn't a good solution, but it seems to be the way the BSA wants to go anyway. Rather than expect people to be critical thinkers and rise up to the organization's level, it will come down to meet them. We saw this with the elimination of the Bobcat badge. Simpletons were confused so the solution was to destroy a legacy rather than insist that people take time to learn and understand. To me, the BSA has been the only constant in my life. My parents divorced when I was young, so neither was in my life 100% of the time. We moved around

After talking to a professional recently, the writing in the wall that the "trial" period of 8/24-7/25 will be successful and full integration will occur. Also from the discussion, if you do not go coed, the council may not be able to help you recruit. I know my troop's volunteers will be meeting about folding the troop at the end of the year. Between existing challenges, and hint that we need to go coed or we will not be supported hit hard. But as @Scoutldr said, That is the sentiment of a lot of the boys I have worked with over the years. Sadly there are fewer and f

And then you join and realize 90% of BSA activities are meetings and merit badge clinics where you have to write reports while adult leaders argue if googling information for your report was sufficient or if you should have used an Encyclopedia written in 1982.

Adults are the worst enemy to patrol method. We apply our sensibilities and biases to a process that the youth see no issue with. Last campout we had 5 patrols. 1 patrol was two scouts. 1 patrol was four scouts. They had a great time, they cooked and enjoyed their meals and were happy to have only their own dishes to contend with. I subscribe completely the B-P's POV: "The patrol system is not one method in which Scouting can be carried on. It is the only method." There is another tenant of B-P I fully subscribe to: "My ideal camp is where everyone is cheery and busy, whe

Hello from the U.K…. Been a wee while since I posted round here. Anyway I thought I’d swing by as I’m currently at scouts and it’s all gone a bit American! And I’m stood in a corner with not much to do with the PLs in danger of making me redundant. The scout program here while using the patrol system tends to use it as a way or organising a troop rather than the patrols being totally independent. At the moment however I have all 5 patrols doing their own thing having planned it all themselves. (Some looking a bit more organised than others but that’s teenagers for you) I’m in serious

But after 13 years of pushing this the membership numbers are still going down. What bad assumptions are they making? Maybe it's a bad assumption that just having scads of documents around will make it easy for parents to pick this up and do well. Have you ever wondered why so few parents are willing to volunteer for scouts? Is it really all their fault because they're lazy or is it too complicated on top of the fact that their work life is already insane. If summer camps can't get parents to show up unless they have wifi for checking into work then that's a hint there's a problem. I coac

It took a while, but I stopped letting overly demanding sports programs, and over the top coaches, get to me. I tried to make the youth understand that there are myriad choices in life, and making them is part of the "growing up" process. Ultimately, they need to choose, hopefully with focus and balance. Too many chose the overly demanding sports road, but with luck may have carried a small piece of the tenets of Scouting with them. A few, returned and refocused on Scouting. We never know. One of the good things about contact with the troop family over decades is that on occasion I see t

This thread is bumping with all of the controversial topics. I don't buy the stages of decline. Most of the changes are in line with the international scouting community (the name is more inline with international naming conventions, 173 of the 216 WOSM members are full coed at last count, shooting sports is heavily regulated in most countries, this seems like standardization not grasping for straws.). I've heard the moms discussion points, it's what BSA teaches the professional scouters to focus on. For some reason there is an emphasis on hooking moms on the value of the program and lit

I gave up referencing myself a while ago, so I won’t link to the thread that shows this data, but here goes anyway … while BSA was mulling over including girls in packs and troops (under the corporate double-speak “family scouting”), there was a WOSM census that revealed that membership declined in nearly every European country immediately after their scouting organization incorporated girls. Recovery to where they would have the same number of boys as they did before desegregation would take decades, if it has occurred yet at all. The UK took 25 years. So, if BSA is indeed about serving

To acquire Venturers in any significant number, the registration fee will have to be less than the cost of a pizza and a movie. While we’re rumoring, scuttle but says there are co-Ed troops being piloted. But even on an informal basis this is happening. I was manning a station at spring Camporee and saw several patrols of mixed sexes. One or two may have bee ad hoc, but a couple operated well enough that I figured they weren’t segregated OPO.

The obvious answer is that we haven't changed the name of the organization enough. I'm certain people will be knocking the doors down now.

Last time National improved the program, Bill Hillcourt had to come out of retirement to lead it.

I see this idea often, not just from @HICO_Eagle “The BSA would have done something if only the abused kid would testify.” First, that’s pretty classic blame the victim. Second, in my case in the 90’s, an ASM did raise concerns and was told it was fine and the YP rules were being followed. After several years of abuse I did testify, on my own with the support of my family and zippo from BSA. So it’s always frustrating to read that because in the instance I know, the exact opposite happened. I doubt I’m one in a 100 thousand. On balance wouldn’t it have been much much bette

Now we are talking about BSA in general. You are way off on the homosexual vs bisexual comment. The great majority of pedophiles are heterosexual. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1556756/ On whether the Boy Scouts did their best... I don't think I can add anything that will change your mind but note that your description of how an SE or TCC would have analyzed the situation has no mention of doing the right thing and is all about liability and reputation.

So far in 2024, there has been no news regarding our federal Charter-required Report to the Nation though I heard of some Reports to State which BSA National encourages. No word yet of any live feed (e.g. youtube) of any parts of NAM. Let's go digital! I prefer, unfiltered direct conversation with Mr. Krone and Mr. Pounder, preferably with an opportunity to send in our questions and feedback. Please no more filtered, condescending after event reports - 5 Things You Need to Know About ... My $0.01,

Some other KPI (Key Performance Indicators) you may want to consider Number of Scouts lost on outings last quarter and actively found Number of Scouts lost on outings last quarter that you did not look for but who seemed to have turned up anyway Scouts left at gas / food stops last quarter while driving to or from outings Number of rain jackets forgotten at last outing with rain (can also be expressed as a percentage) Number of class A shirts misplace that seem to have magically been found Number of items "stolen" on an outing last quarter that were "found"

When my financial advisor found out I was a scout leader and taking other people's kids in my car and out camping, he recommended I carry umbrella liability insurance. I have done so for 30 years now. It is very reasonable in cost. You can be perfectly innocent and not at fault, but if you get sued or accused, it can cost you everything to defend yourself. Such is today's litigious society that feels if my kid gets hurt, SOMEONE has to pay, no matter the reason.

We do (about) three meetings per month, with a short PLC after each. These build up to the outing. Then, the outing... The regular meeting night after an outing is a full PLC (so one per month), where they go over all stuff necessary. The other Scouts/parents get that night off to further recuperate from the outing. We have one day trip/service project per month... mostly an outdoor activity. So 4 meetings and two outings per month... 1/3 of our activities are aimed primarily at outdoors. We have the most successful Troop in the council. Most meetings (mid-spring through

See attached for the history of rank requirements. You can see the trend from simply... Cook for your patrol to getting meals approved against a budget following my plate. Just an example of how this becomes an issue... My nephew was denied his first class cooking completion because he went over his self estimated budget. The SM told him that staying within budget is part of the requirement.... Could you imagine better ways to kill motivation of a 12 year old then talking about food budgeting? I digress... Even through the 1990s, the rank requirements were almost exclusively outd

If worrying about there's alcohol and smoking, then our troop would cease to exist- we meet at an American Legion Post, where there is a bar open for members while we are meting in the room next door. Been that way for over 70 years. We're OK for meeting weekly under such conditions, but not to use a range once a year? I could absolutely see having a checklist and stipulations on what is required when using a sportsmens club versus a commercial range- namely, a fully certified instructor must be present. I've never experienced a sportsmens club that would be OK with a member drinking at t

Another decision not mentioned in National Report, FleishmanHillard ($$$) which has previously worked with the BSA, was chosen as PR Agency of Record (AOR) in November 2023 with a focus on the rebrand. BSA Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) Michael Ramsey said his team is amplifying the organization’s message to reach youth and families across the country via national press releases and a social strategy that “leans hard into” Instagram and LinkedIn. “We have a lot of our leaders on LinkedIn,” said Ramsey. “But video is the backbone of a lot of the things we are doing. We are also lookin

I wonder if work culture has also had an impact on membership declines. Both of my parents had good, steady jobs with the same employer for 30+ years, but they rarely worked over 40 hours per week. Today, my wife and are always within 20 feet of our laptops. We log-in during off hours to get caught up or work ahead. At times, I wonder if this is really necessary since our jobs aren't that great; however, they are good enough where we don't want to lose them. I'm sorry to say the thought of taking kids camping for a full weekend sounds exhausting.

Probably trace this directly to Hawaii I think. No changes noted for archery.

I’ve been preaching for a more simple cub program for many years because it pulls down the membership for all the other programs. But, I fear it’s the troop program that will be changed, which doesn’t need change. National has rarely shown to make changes to better the program toward a better program. Barry

I've been thinking about it for a couple of days. I've come to the conclusion that the BSA was pretty much my home. It may sound silly, but I can remember the first day I walked into the BSA office in my current council. I had never set foot in that place before, but I felt like I had just walked into my home once again. I did a little reading on rebranding this morning and found out that it's not unusual for brands to lose 20% of their loyal customers following rebranding. I was extremely passionate about the BSA and worked hard to revive a unit, expand the program, and be involved as mu

Another random thought, it does explain why Jim Kirk was never a Boy Scout. https://y.yarn.co/193eb197-66ad-4b5c-843a-0519c7779c8b.mp4

All I can say is keep up the good work. What do you and your scouts want to get out of the program? Awards? Ranks? Badges? Or is it about learning life skills? Encourage them to pursue Wilderness Survival in addition to Eagle requirements (7 MBs are elective). If your scouts don't like your district Klondike stop going. Find another one. Keep building skills, ranks and awards will come.

You must be doing it wrong. 75% of scouting is outing.

"Normalizing" is not always a good thing.

Not necessarily. I talked to one professional recently, and the implied message was that we need to create a coed pack, and have a girls troop, or no longer get recruiting support from council. Grant you We have had 0 support for over a decade now, so it will not make a difference. Where there is a will, there is a way. I cannot tell how many couples I saw when I was involved in Venturing.

I guess I don't understand the need for "affinity groups" in Scouting. To me, when one joins Scouting, one sheds all of one's other identities. Same when I go to work. In Scouting, I'm whatever position is on my sleeve and an Eagle Scout. I'm not Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc. I'm not gay, straight, etc. I'm a male only for YP and bathroom reasons. I'm not Dr. Armymutt, I'm Mr. Armymutt or just Armymutt. When someone holds tightly onto whatever they are outside of Scouting, I question their values and their commitment to Scouting. If the idea of simply following the Scout Law

There is literally no need to change the name. The stated reason is to bring in more people. Tells me that they don't care about the people already in who have been in for years and are totally cool with most of the changes - I'm still annoyed about trashing the Bobcat rank. Sorry, but to me, when an organization changes its name, it loses its history. You can claim it hasn't, but it has. I never met a single girl who didn't join because Cub Scouts was a program under BSA. I have met plenty who didn't join because it was too expensive. I'm not seeing how spending millions of dollars to

Because GSUSA was not meeting their desire for an adventurous program. And their leadership does not want to change. While society does indeed teach there are no differences in roles, psychology and other sciences do show otherwise. Give me until the weekend to get the research collected. Because research from way back, and event to this day, shows that both boys and girls need their own spaces without the opposite gender present to develop. Again, GSUSA has not listened to their base, and have lost many over the years.

I feel like the name change helps remove a distraction, the constant complaining from folks who still felt like the name "Boy Scouts of America" was some kind of mandate that girls not be allowed. Removing the basis of that argument ("Boy" in the main organization name) means there is no argument anymore. It's part of the org name, it's codified into the primary brand identity. It's done, we can (finally) move on from having to defend the contradiction in the name.

Name changes and minor program tweaks won't make a significant impact. I'm seeing a complete collapse of scouting in my area. Multiple Packs ending, others seeing limited growth. Multiple Troops in my area are also near collapse. Summer camps, camporees are losing attendees. The answer from National... A name change? I think the change is fine, but hopefully I hear about their plans to reverse the decline.

What a surprise (not). We conspiracy theorists knew this was the plan all along. Now that the objecting religious sponsors are out of the way, time to make the move.

Take out point 5, everything else applies when drivers are on their own. Before cell phones, we moved a whole troop of 120 six-hundred-miles and ended up at the destination with in 15-20 minutes. So it works well. Before cell phones, we used radios that had a range of 50 miles. Our trailer broke an axle in Colorado and all other cars knew within minutes. A plan was set to which car would help and which ones would continue to next stop at a safe place for a bunch of scouts. Much better than stopping a whole caravan of cars along side a busy two lane highway. Barry

This is Hooey, When the initial allegations came forward about the nude photos he could have been removed as a member of the BSA period. There is no god given right to be an adult member of BSA. How many young boys could have been saved? And they did have standing as he was part of their organization. Taking nude photos of young boys and having sexual relationships with them is neither homosexuality or bisexuality. How can you possibly say they removed the threat as best they could when after the nude photos came up they allowed him access to children. That is called gross neglig

He was blocked re-registering in the 1970s and 1980s. The 1968 letter had the SE say they could not ignore the accusations and said it was Brock's actions that led to the result. For 1968, this seems like it was handled well ... for 1968 ... before computers ... before modern laws. This sounds like BSA's files worked well. The one thing that surprised me is no police report. So so so many of the files do have police reports. I bet there was not a 1968 chargeable crime. The 1960s were a long time ago and so much has change. A lot has changed.

What can we say, other than good for her. https://richmond.com/opinion/column/hanover-hypocrisy-book-censorship-girl-scout/article_ca2c06be-fde7-11ee-8aea-939bb71a3f14.html

Those are all great ideas. I'd add: Form an adult patrol. Act like a patrol. Make a yell. A flag. Camp apart. Have your own kitchen, just like theirs. Do your menu, just like they do. Have your own grubmaster. Plan your own patrol activities when it's patrol time. Set the example.

"We are so afraid of the kinds of dangers that are actually so rare that we are not allowing our children to prepare themselves for the bumps in the road of life. Then, later on they fall apart," Boston College Professor Peter Gray told WBZ-TV. "They are far better off if they have the kinds of experiences in which they learn how to judge danger themselves, how to solve their own problems, develop a certain degree of courage, learn how to deal with the small amounts of fear and anger that naturally arise in play....We've taken away a lot of recess, we've shortened the lunch hour so kids a