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    • All, naturally, true, but I wanted to thank you @skeptic for causing me to read this particular section. Thinking of some recent conversations about acceptable cub squirreliness, I'm not crazy after all, and it's always good to know I'm not the only one who thinks simply meeting the sacred in nature develops spirituality 😃 
    • Well, it's enough to cripple The Boy Scouts of America in the Rocky Mountains. Some might consider that significant. Apparently, also, increasingly in the Catholic church (52/333 million nationwide). An enlightening reply, nevertheless.  I will study it yet for some time. Thank you. I don't think COVID is the reason for losing 145000/150000 in Utah and Idaho. That's a pretty big framing error, even for me, particulary since my mug is in the photo. Nationwide, had Scouting just retained market share, we (BSA) should be at 8 million now. AwakeEnergyScout, do you have a sermon explaining that massive screw up? You can't do anything if you don't have a clientele. Ah, this is becoming quite the metaphorical cobler, is it not? It's worth noting that the Scout Oath and Law originate from Catholic scripture. Catholics have not changed too much in their thinking about these foundational doctrines in 2000 years. Could it be that it is BSA (at 1.2 million), not the Catholics (at 1.4 billion), that no longer appreciates the original intent? Bear in mind that I am still in the program. I love smiles of all sorts at my waterfront. Rather than steal from the Boy Scouts though, could we not just make more pie? Different flavors, even. In my experience, the original flavor so tasty to boys and men, while tolerated by a few others, is not really what they'd prefer. Make them their own flavors! Why can't the-soon-to-be Scouting America, heir to the 110 year-old beacon on the hill, do that? Two-week old iPhone apps manage it, why can't we? Why can't we admit that we need different things for different people and do something about it, rather than squeeze square pegs into one round hole. But please, more, more. I take all comers, acerbic or otherwise. If we don't invite critics, we just live in a cracker barrel. Grow the pie. Don't erase boys.
    • @skeptic Thank you. I cut and pasted from an OldGreyEagle 2008 post as this may be easier to read  ~RS Ladies and Gentlemen. I have been asked to explain to you what the Boy Scout movement is. It is a tall order to compress into three minutes the ideals that are being followed by over a million and a half of boys. The movement primarily is a brotherhood of service of boys and men. Its school of character of citizenship, of personal efficiency for the good of the community. This sounds high-falootin. For what is as we know it, a band of bare-kneed rascals, with cowboy hats and staves in their hands. But remember, you cannot give them character through ordinary classroom methods. You have to use other means. The boys are eager to join in a jolly game of fellowship, with its Healthy camp life and handy pioneer training. Their moral character is developed by our method of self government under a code of chivalry in the Scout law. Their spiritual character is developed by their being brought face to face with the wonders and beauties of nature. The boy is naturally active, rather than passive in temperament, and we give him opportunities of performance rather than of profession. Scouts make themselves efficient not merely for their own good but in order to be helpful to the community. In other words, they train to be good citizens. Character is far more essential to a successful career of a man. Character in its individual members is essential for the character of the nation. And character in the nation is similarly essential to its welfare. As a school of character therefore, the Scout movement is non-military, non-sectarian, non-political and non-class. On these lines the movement has come in the space of twelve years to be adopted by every civilized country. The brotherhood spirit has thus grown up automatically. It is forming a personal tie not only between the states of the British Commonwealth, but also between the different foreign counties, it may just supply that soul which is needed to make the form of the League of Nations a living force, such as will render war impossible in the future. The movement is growing every day in size and in effect. All we want are more men in this great brotherhood of service to do this joyous work for God, their country, and the boys. The work, for all who try it can testify, is well worthwhile. - Baden Powell
    • Nov 6, 2024: US Court of Appeals for Third Circuit:  Judge Cheryl Ann Krause,  Judge Anthony J. Scirica, Judge Marjorie O. Rendell Source (check for updates): https://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/OralArgSummariesLanding/CasesDetails.aspx?hrngDt=20241106
    • Yes, yes, and yes, happening right now as we speak in the US and has been happening for literally over sixty years elsewhere. There is ample proof of concept here - this is a weak argument unless you have data showing that a large enough fraction of parents to cripple Scouting America as a whole refuse to send their children to youth activities that only have other children that are just like their child demographically. And even if you did, it's an argument pertaining to the goal of growing or maintaining Scouting America the organization as opposed to preparing youth to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. And like DuctTape said, parents centering identity politics over a quality alternative learning program isn't really the fault of Scouting America. If the parents in your community can't stand doing things with people that aren't just like themselves in every way, then arguably they were never interested in scouting in the first place. We have always been a movement consisting of different "categories" of people - remember that Brownsea deliberately included scouts of different socioeconomic status.  The current WOSM reference document The Essential Characteristics of Scouting starts with this BP quote that I'm sure you've heard before, in the context of Messengers of Peace if nothing else:  The first paragraph reads     Scouting isn't equally popular everywhere because our ideals aren't equally popular everywhere. But we don't compromise our values just because they're unpopular in some particular place. That's a key strength of our movement. The implied proposal you seem to be making is that while you agree that trans and cis kids are equally important and valuable, we should exclude the trans kids (and perhaps everyone else who isn't able-bodied, cishet, at least middle class, etc) anyway because the parents of the cis kids don't want their kids hanging out with trans kids. Is that correctly restated? Sorry to hear that your troop is having problems, but my unit has to my knowledge 100% straight cis kids and plenty of boys whose parents are happy to have them there, are happy to have them share a campsite with the girls, and wives of male leaders who don't have a problem with them going camping with us female leaders (and vice versa). (To be fair, I don't really care what their sexual orientation is and they're cubs so I could be wrong about that 100%, I'm not really seeking that information.) Heck, one of the probably straight cis boys who's having a hard time got a man to man emotional intelligence talk from one of the male leaders recently. We've had a good recruitment season and have now made up the losses we suffered after COVID. Are you sure that you're framing your unit's problems correctly in the first place?
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