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  2. Scouting is tilting at the wrong windmills when it compares itself to youth involvement in sports. Many youth simply find sports more fun than scouting. Some people may be delusional about professional sports careers or scholarships to D1 schools, but for most families, sports is merely a good activity for youth to be involved in during middle and high school careers. Even if they don't make a varsity team in high school, or make the team but spend a lot of time on the bench, they are still spending 4-5 days afterschool practicing, involved in team spirit events, involved in clinics and practi
  3. Agreed. I am blessed to live in an area with multiple active troops. But so many of the Pack parents are strapped for time, they decide at the last minute to visit one troop in the early spring to satisfy AOL requirements. After they crossover to the same troop, they decide they don't like it and assume everyone does the same program, so they drop scouts. First-year summer camp is a big deal and the Cub parents have no idea. We stress to our Pack AOL leader to finish crossover by March so the scouts have time to acclimate to the new troop. Really that's barely enough time. We have alread
  4. Literally just went through this. My district had a unit meeting in a different district. No national policies that could be found. The unit belonged to the district of the mailing address of the charter organization. The only real issues were that the unit was not communicating with the district executive, so he couldn't help them figure out how to solve their problem (which appeared to be the charter org wanted the unit out but didn't want to just drop the charter so they were being nobs to the parents and leaders). As a volunteer trying to help the unit once the district knew what was going
  5. After the whole Hawaii thing how did we not see something happening? I don't think this is that big of a deal. Sure name change, but, we still have shooting sports. We're a very broad topic youth organization, not a shooting sports organization. The reduction in options is not that big of a deal, if a scout really likes shooting, and wants to get into different styles, different calibers, super serious with reloading etc ... why can't they go shoot clays on Tuesday night at their gun club, and roll into their troop meetings on Wednesday at the local church?
  6. We're straying a little but I'll bite on this one. The internet thing is a big deal where I am at. There are parent/leader lounges at most of the camps in my state to allow remote work for parents. Last year it doubled the number of adults able to accompany my sons troop to camp; I agree that we need to keep the scouts off of that wifi, but we need amenities like this to keep some families in the scouting game so-to-speak. Sports are a big deal in my area as well. Most families are delusional with these 4 season sports and the traveling/club leagues. Most varsity teams for any sport ha
  7. Today
  8. There are a lot of possible "shooting" sports, some not so sporty, some just humor. Shooting marbles, shooting pool, shooting baskets, and maybe even shooting mouths. They all still have rules of sorts, though too often ignored in the broader world. I suppose I just shot myself in the foot, as I am going too far afield. 😇
  9. WOW. I wish that would have been the case for friends of mine. One friend of mine had the cable line across the street from his house. His house was less than 100 feet from the poles they were using, and they would not connect him. Worse was the friend who, lived on a corner lot. because his physical address was on a street not in their service area, they would not connect him to the network despite the cable going through his side yard, and connecting neighbors on the street his address was not on.
  10. I thought range and target sports better includes archery. I don’t see archery as a shooting sport.
  11. We are pretty remote. They paid a couple hundred thousand to run fiber optic under/above ground for about 3 miles. But I guess we're not that remote if we were able to get it. Just expensive!
  12. On the name change... because removing the word 'shooting' makes it much safer. (Yes, that's sarcasm.) 'Range and Target Activities' sounds much less troublesome, if you're the type to be troubled by shooting, but if that's what they were after I think it's a mistake. It's not only okay to let kids know something is dangerous, but going into it with that in mind helps reinforce the seriousness of handling not only firearms, but any instrument that sends a deadly object flying at great speeds.
  13. You are lucky. There are some places that are so remote, big telecom does not provide internet services. Only option is satellite, which is extremely pricey. Sadly out state legislators nixed local government agencies from forming their own after big telecom complained about losing customers in the two areas that had it.
  14. Our camp upgraded it's wifi to help leaders who need to work. While it's only accessible from "base camp" and not at the campsites, it seems that the password gets leaked to the scouts and they end up sitting all over the place. It turned into an "encampment" and it was disturbing. Resolving one situation created another one.
  15. Oh, I see! That makes sense. I was a little surprised that you wouldn't have noticed at all. I also appreciate your willingness to explain your thinking process in several steps, and your thoughtfulness. I've enjoyed talking to you, too.
  16. 35-40 minutes away is the McDonald.
  17. We are just now gearing up for travel (or "club") basketball in my household, which starts in 3rd grade. I assure you, I'm not delusional. My son will never play pro basketball or receive an athletic scholarship. My only hope for him is that he's able to play varsity basketball in high school. We live in a large suburban school district. There are currently ~50 boys in his grade participating in the high school's youth program. Only 8 will ever get to play varsity basketball. Beginning in 5th grade, the school sorts the kids by ability through the formation of "A", "B", "C", and "D" teams
  18. Your camps have a McDonald's nearby !?!? 😛 I'm jealous. Our favorite council camp is way the heck out there. It's delightful ... until you need something.
  19. Apologies, @AwakeEnergyScouter - I see were referring to internalized suffering that was mentioned in another post, which I have no problem believing is real (I think we can all relate to some degree). I initially read your post to mean suffering by society from the outward projection of masculinity (also real, but debatable IMHO). I tagged you simply because I thought you've added a lot of thoughtful replies and I've enjoyed engaging with you in this thread.
  20. Yesterday
  21. Another aspect of this is that today's 11 year old is less mature than those of 20 years ago. Whether it's cell phones, social media, games, helicopter parents or whatever, kids have less ability at dealing with hard, challenging stuff.
  22. Your camps have wifi? LOL Seriously, wifi in the past has been a serious concern. There is one camp the troop likes that has extremely pour internet, to the point where their office staff will take turns driving into town to use the local McDonald's wifi.
  23. You may be missing the whole "community" aspect of the travel sports lifestyle. You are more than a family, your child is an (insert sport here) athlete. Yes there is time, but no real planning other than financial commitment. You drop them off for practice, pick them up. Go to games, hang out, head home. You hang out with the other families and commiserate on how much time all this takes up. Kids also get burned out and the casual participation declines considerably after 8th grade. Also good observation in that if the fees for travel (can be $3k or more per season / 2 seasons ann
  24. Few to virtually none of my troop's parents attend every monthly campout. Instead, we have a pool of adults that are able to go every other month or less and still have enough adult supervision. Frankly, the scouts seem to enjoy the campouts more when less adults are in the way. Many of our adult leaders take work with them to summer camp. They work in the adult leader lounge while the scouts are in MB sessions. They don't put in anything close to 40 hours that week, but they are able to knock out some work hours on WiFi.
  25. This mirrors my observations in my area: There is a big hole in the program, the bubble is currently at the age of crossover scouts. These kids missed the first years of Cub Scouting during Covid lockdown. Then when these families returned to activities, they limited themselves. Some chose to stick to sports or other activities, so they didn't consider scouting. So fewer kids made it up the ranks in Cub Scouts. It doesn't effect younger scouts as much: Lions, Tigers, Wolves... because they began school/activities after lockdown. Families are in a crunch. It takes more and more comm
  26. What am I missing with the "travel sports" thing? It seems far more time stealing and financially draining to me. And few of the kids ever will go beyond to make a living, though perhaps it will help some gets scholarships. Again though, I missed most of those options as a youth due to the time period of the late fifties. Local sports groups often were very selective, or developed on civic lines. In my case, while I wanted to do Little League, I could not, as we lived in an L.A. County area surrounded by the city of Azusa, and my address did not allow me to join. Of course, that was befo
  27. " Folks spend way more time figuring our how to game the system than, well, I don't know, going camping." Triple plus star for this. And that applies to most of the more popular and consistent parts of the program.
  28. I just did a crossover with our primary feeder pack. The pack has 90 scouts. Roughly 20 Lions, 20 Tigers, 20 Wolves, 15 Bears, 10 Webelos and 5 AOL. Of the 5 AOL only 1 wants to continue in Scouts. That 1 only joined Cub Scouts this year.... I talked with the other 4 parents. - They are looking to reduce activities after 5th grade - All are planning to increase their kids involvement in travel sports.... So no time left for scouts
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    • Scouting is tilting at the wrong windmills when it compares itself to youth involvement in sports. Many youth simply find sports more fun than scouting. Some people may be delusional about professional sports careers or scholarships to D1 schools, but for most families, sports is merely a good activity for youth to be involved in during middle and high school careers. Even if they don't make a varsity team in high school, or make the team but spend a lot of time on the bench, they are still spending 4-5 days afterschool practicing, involved in team spirit events, involved in clinics and practices and team social events off season. They also have something equally good to put on their college application. As far as travel, there are elite teams that cost thousands, but there are far more travel teams that are just a way to continue playing if you aren't good enough to make a school team --there are elite travel teams that go around the country in their custom buses, but there are a ton more travel teams that are simply glorified rec level teams. Sometimes parents will overemphasize the sports prestige and goals so as not to offend scout leaders -- it's easier to say they are focusing on sports in hopes of getting a scholarship vs. they really don't like scouting as much. Sports involvement is also portable. It is really easy to play for one team in the spring that serves one need, and another over the summer or in the fall to serve another. There is no easy, real corollary to that in scouting other than maybe combined HA crews for things like Philmont. As far as the unfit, short family, maybe that's why they want to encourage their kid in sports. Unless you are in a unit that does a lot of hiking or high adventuring, scouts seems to be becoming increasingly sedentary and advancement focused. 
    • Agreed. I am blessed to live in an area with multiple active troops. But so many of the Pack parents are strapped for time, they decide at the last minute to visit one troop in the early spring to satisfy AOL requirements. After they crossover to the same troop, they decide they don't like it and assume everyone does the same program, so they drop scouts.  First-year summer camp is a big deal and the Cub parents have no idea. We stress to our Pack AOL leader to finish crossover by March so the scouts have time to acclimate to the new troop. Really that's barely enough time. We have already made summer camp deposits and program selections before they arrive. I am thinking they should meet several times with their prospective troop as AOL scouts before crossover.
    • Literally just went through this. My district had a unit meeting in a different district. No national policies that could be found. The unit belonged to the district of the mailing address of the charter organization. The only real issues were that the unit was not communicating with the district executive, so he couldn't help them figure out how to solve their problem (which appeared to be the charter org wanted the unit out but didn't want to just drop the charter so they were being nobs to the parents and leaders). As a volunteer trying to help the unit once the district knew what was going on it was a nightmare because the unit was imploding because they were meeting so far away from where most of the families in the unit lived.  A little bit older situation that might still be ongoing. My district has a unit that refuses to participate with council except for what they are mandated. The unit sends all of their leaders to neighboring councils for their training (IOLS, Wood Badge, etc ... ), they only camp at the neighboring councils camps, the SM has been heard literally stating "If we could register with the neighboring council we would" so that makes me believe that you have to register with your council that your CO geographically falls in. My DE has told me that as long as the adults are getting trained and the unit is camping he would rather have that then have an untrained unit that doesn't camp and so he lets it be.
    • After the whole Hawaii thing how did we not see something happening?  I don't think this is that big of a deal. Sure name change, but, we still have shooting sports. We're a very broad topic youth organization, not a shooting sports organization. The reduction in options is not that big of a deal, if a scout really likes shooting, and wants to get into different styles, different calibers, super serious with reloading etc ... why can't they go shoot clays on Tuesday night at their gun club, and roll into their troop meetings on Wednesday at the local church? 
    • We're straying a little but I'll bite on this one.  The internet thing is a big deal where I am at. There are parent/leader lounges at most of the camps in my state to allow remote work for parents. Last year it doubled the number of adults able to accompany my sons troop to camp; I agree that we need to keep the scouts off of that wifi, but we need amenities like this to keep some families in the scouting game so-to-speak.  Sports are a big deal in my area as well. Most families are delusional with these 4 season sports and the traveling/club leagues. Most varsity teams for any sport have a cap of about 20 players total. If you don't play varsity in HS it's very unlikely that a kid will make it onto a team in college, and then there's little to no chance of professional (or Olympic if your sport veers that direction). My sons unit lost a kid to baseball this Spring and it's a joke; the mom and dad are both around 5'6" and not fat, but clearly they have never had an athletic build. The dad was all like, we might be back, but we're setting him up for varsity in a few years, and then on to college ball; the delusion of these parents that don't understand the genetics aspect of high level sport play. I feel bad for the kid, unless he has some magical growth spurt that puts him 6-10 inches taller than both his parents they're building him up for a very big fall.  I think the new AOL program is going to fix some of these crossover problems. Several years ago the pack my family came out of started pushing Scouting Adventure super hard, first, and it has had much higher success in successfully crossing over AOLs to troops. The pack also started pushing multiple troop visits. The new AOL Bobcat adventure codifies those activities and establishes that troop visits start in September. Now that packs and troops are being told in doctrine that troop visits need to happen often and early I think we're going to see more AOLs crossover. This last minute go visit a troop in Feb-Mar crap has never been good.
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