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  2. Jackdaws

    possible fee increase coming

    This is the part that just kills me. We can't sell that much popcorn around here. Its way too over priced. So the BSA assumes that we can just wave a magic wand and make it all better. BSA needs to come up with something else that is cheaper and that people wont mind paying for. We really should just seize the GSA and their cookies.
  3. When they used to regularly come to CU, where I was, and just kick the tar out of us. Them and Nebraska. Those days taught me the benefit of having the outdoors as a passion. Yep, pain can be a good lesson.
  4. 5thGenTexan

    possible fee increase coming

    I will accept 17% all day long, but I think it will be more than that. My DE says an increase up to $48 and I don't like it but will probably go along with it. The suggestions it might be $100 or more will cause me to bail. This is my third year as a leader and I am CM this year planning on WB in Jan, so I am just a parent. There are 4 of us in my family and $400 a year to National is not going to be possible. I know the original letter from National said that to cover the increase we could just sell more popcorn and that line of thinking makes me say unkind things.
  5. shortridge

    Where would you go?

    Leave? No. I’m going to be right where I am, as CC of my daughter’s troop until she ages out, then working with my sons’ Cub pack as they get older. The program is solid at its core. I’ll take care of my local kids and they’ll have a great time. National can do whatever National does, and it doesn’t affect the day-to-day unit program a whole heck of a lot. I do agree that Cubs has gotten far, far too long. If my boys join, they’ll be waiting until Tiger or more probably Wolf. Lions is pretty ridiculous. There are only so many times you can visit the police station and go pumpkin-picking and play fitness games over five years to complete what are basically the same achievements. I understand that the pros did it to scoop kids up sooner and compete with toddler T-ball and preschool soccer - but sports are seeing youth burnout as well! Kids’ interests change and they get bored.
  6. Cubmaster Pete

    possible fee increase coming

    Exactly. Even if it's only that, and as @ParkMan said it's not that much, but are parents going to say "Increase? Nope. I will spend my allocated $ for youth programs elsewhere" Unfortunately, people aren't as loyal as we would like to hope. There is too much out there to be a part of. And current negativity towards the BSA, warranted or not, makes any increase a hard sell. Believe me, when I need to go to families and ask for MORE money, I will surely blame Nationals ineptitude. I have no issue throwing them under the bus.
  7. Today
  8. walk in the woods

    possible fee increase coming

    @ParkMan The structure of your argument makes sense, but, I wonder if it isn't incomplete. Another analysis goes something like this: Current costs for Susie Cub Scout, $200, Tommy Tenderfoot $500, Parent Leader $300 (let's say) for a total of $1000. Assuming a $33/person increase that becomes effectively $1100. The question isn't whether a family can absorb the 10% relative increase, rather, the question being prompted is if the BSA is providing $1100/year worth of value.
  9. walk in the woods

    Signing Scout Phrases (ASL)

    My son was non-verbal due to his autism until he was almost 4. We used sign language to help him communicate, but, it wasn't standard ASL. Rather, we used word-order. I'm not an expert but, as I understand it, when you see the signers along side a presentation they aren't signing a word-for-word translation. Rather the signing has a different structure. Word-order is basically learning the signs for "Be" and "Prepared" and using them in that order. Anyway, I think this is the book we used. It was 20 years ago now so the memory is foggy.
  10. ParkMan

    possible fee increase coming

    To be fair to those families. When someone joins anything - be it simming, scouting, soccer, whatever - they do a little cost/budget/benefit analysis. When you start changing the costs, families inherently are going to re-do that analysis in their mind. For some they really can't afford the new amount. For some, they just dislike having to pay more and so have a lot of frustration when they are asked to pay more. Of others, they look at the new amount and think "no problem". As I mentioned in @Cubmaster Pete's thread - based on my back of the napkin calculations, this will increase the cost of Cub Scouts from $200 to $233 (17%) and Scouts BSA from $500 to $533 (7%). These kind of increases are certainly not something I enjoy, but seems absorbable based on the benefits I see from the BSA. My gut tells me that most people will be able to absorb the increase. In my opinion, the specific things you get from the National Council are not worth an additional $33 a year. But, the value I get from the Scouting program in the BSA system is easily worth a 7% to 17% increase. The program structure in the BSA is very good, the activities provided by leaders for my kids outstanding, the advancement program is terrific, the facilities maintained by the councils & national outstanding. The district & council level programming provided is a nice bonus to our unit activities. The adult leader support & training that comes from volunteers & professionals is pretty extensive. I'm sure I could easily name more. Is it worth it to me to move to a less developed program over a 7% to 17% increase - I really don't think so.
  11. Cubmaster Pete

    possible fee increase coming

    I think they are referring to the BSA regulation about 2 deep leadership at every Scout function, no matter what it is.
  12. DuctTape

    Limit for Cub Scout nights of camping

    Do samples have to be followed verbatim, or can they be modified to fit the pack? Of course this question is rhetorical.
  13. Sentinel947

    possible fee increase coming

    Guide to safe Scouting requires two registered adults over 21 for all Scouting activities.
  14. qwazse

    Signing Scout Phrases (ASL)

    @FireStone, sorry to say I can't help you. I've used online sites for religious terms in ASL, but not scouting. However, you might want to call around to agencies that serve hearing impaired. Your local hospital or county courthouse could be a good start. Round here, I would call the school for the deaf. Sometimes they can send a volunteer. They might even know a few scouts in your area who sign ASL. It's definitely more fun to learn from someone who uses it as a first language.
  15. njdrt-rdr

    possible fee increase coming

    Can you tell me where you saw this requirement?
  16. Seems to me that for such an effort to be taken seriously by Scouts, that all of us Scouters need to wear our uniform to work too. Clearly, some people will not be able to do so because of their job requires a uniform or special clothing. I have worn my uniform on rounds at the hospital many times on Scout Sunday with positive responses from my patients, colleagues, and staff. If we as volunteers cannot bring ourselves to represent Scouting, then it is hard to expect our Scouts to do so.
  17. My kid is a sophomore. There's no shot at him wearing a Class A uniform to school for the day. It would be more possible for them with wear a class B shirt but since that is not an official uniform that can't happen either.
  18. mrkstvns

    Signing Scout Phrases (ASL)

    Interesting question! I can't imagine that such things don't exist since ASL is one of the "languages" in which you can earn an Interpreter strip.
  19. ParkMan

    Supporting the Patrol Method - as Unit Commissioner

    What an awesome!!!! idea. What a brain dead decision by the SE - doh! From hearing these stories, I realize that I'm in a pretty decent council with empowered volunteers. There's got to be some kind of national advisory board that hears these stories and establishes policy for SEs. Here's hoping...
  20. TAHAWK

    Supporting the Patrol Method - as Unit Commissioner

    Our District Committee voted unanimously to do it as a district, to be awarded at Klondike Derby or Camporee or District Dinner, with ceremony at the unit as a last resort. Council Exec vetoed on grounds leaders might see it as pressure. Imagine that , a ribbon's-worth of pressure to deliver Scouting to youth. 😉 Shortly thereafter, all districts were abolished, creating some interesting Bylaws issues.
  21. ParkMan

    Supporting the Patrol Method - as Unit Commissioner

    Why not do this anyways? As a UC you're a district level Scouter. Invent the award locally and start promoting it. Honestly, in our district folks would care way more about a local award than JTE.
  22. TAHAWK

    Supporting the Patrol Method - as Unit Commissioner

    Not black and white, and, like all scoring system, subject to "gaming," but JTM doesn't even try. If you have more than one patrol. all Scouts, except troop leadership, belong to a semi-permanent patrol that meets, camps, performs service, learns, and participates in troop program together. Patrol Leaders and,If you have more than one patrol, the SPL are elected by democratic vote of the Scouts. If you have more than one patrol, have at least X PLCs, including an annual program planning event, at which the patrol leaders, chaired by the SPL, plan the troop's program for the year, inclusive of all troop meetings and other activities, and prepare a written annual program plan. The SPL presents the troop annual program plan to the Troop Committee and, with the SM's support, asks the TC to support that program Have at least X patrol meeting lasting at least one hour every month. Have at least x patrol outings a year Have at least x patrol service projects per year. Scouts primarily learn Scout skills in the context of their patrol. All patrols by month x of the program year have names, patrol medallions, flags and yells, cheers, or songs. Every Scout by month x of the program year has a job within his patrol and can explain the responsibilities of that job in summary fashion. All troops certified by their UC (judged by the DC to be performing as UC to minimal standards ) to be complying with the X points of the Patrol Method certified by the District Program Committee, to be annually awarded a ribbon for the troop flag bearing the words " Scout Troop" and the program year (e.g. "2020"). The ribbon shall be publicly awarded at a district event. The SPL leads troop activities, working through the patrol leaders whenever practicable. Of course, this would be more fair if BSA actually explained what The Patrol Method" is.
  23. When JTE first came out I remember being told that they would tighten up the requirements every year to slowly improve all the troops. I'm not sure what happened to that idea. One of the problems with JTE is that it is entirely based on easily measured concepts. The number of meetings held, number of campouts, number of advancements, etc. This is straight out of SMART goals. It is entirely based on the methods of scouting with no room for the aims of scouting because character, the oath, and law can't be measured. I could see a problem with with measuring improved growth of scouts and silly arguments between the districts and scoutmasters as they try to decide who deserves gold. However, character has never been a simple idea to measure. If it were, the bible would be a very simple algorithm to measure people's character so they could see whether they were good or bad. Instead, there are lots of stories about struggling with good and bad. If the PL doesn't know what his patrol is then, sure, that's a huge red flag. Can you imagine the list of rules for trying to measure how well a troop uses the patrol method? What a nightmare. I'd much rather see the SM and ASM's sit down with a knowledgeable facilitator to evaluate their aims. Rather than a ranking make it a win/win way to help develop units. It would be great to see that in Rogue Scouts as well. I think I'll go back to my woodworking shop. I'm trying something new. There was a huge wind that took down some trees at my mother-in-law's farm and a cherry tree got knocked down. I'm hoping to get a local sawyer to come and slice it up for me. I have a spot all ready to create a stack to dry the wood.
  24. Our Pack has done "Pack Pride Day" in the spring, wearing Class B t-shirts to school, but mostly as a recruitment tool. I could see this being done in Class Bs, but wearing the full uniform to school can be tough for kids. I know they should be proud to be scouts, and most are, but wearing the uniform in school rarely has the intended effect. Unfortunately it invites more criticism than compliments. I wouldn't even ask my son to do it. But ClassB he's ok with.
  25. FireStone

    Signing Scout Phrases (ASL)

    Anyone have a good resource for someone who knows zero sign language to learn a few Scout-related phrases? Most importantly, how to sign "Be Prepared", but any others would be a nice bonus for me to know. I've done some googling but I'm not knowledgable enough with ASL to know what the proper sign is, ASL vs. standard sign language, etc., and I don't want to get the wrong signs. I made the classic scout leader move of volunteering to teach this and will now go about figuring out how to do it so I can teach it. 😄
  26. Yesterday
  27. Sentinel947

    Where would you go?

    Not much between here and the Steel City. Maybe Athens. 🤣 As much as the news can be dire or frustrating regarding the BSA. I'm all in for at least 2020. If I'm out after that, it'll be because of life circumstances vs something that the BSA does or something that happens in the news.
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    • This is the part that just kills me.    We can't sell that much popcorn around here.  Its way too over priced.  So  the BSA assumes that we can just wave a magic wand and make it all better.   BSA needs to come up with something else that is cheaper and that people wont mind paying for.    We really should just seize the GSA and their cookies. 
    • When they used to regularly come to CU, where I was, and just kick the tar out of us. Them and Nebraska. Those days taught me the benefit of having the outdoors as a passion. Yep, pain can be a good lesson.
    • I will accept 17% all day long, but I think it will be more than that.  My DE says an increase up to $48 and I don't like it but will probably go along with it.  The suggestions it might be $100 or more will cause me to bail.  This is my third year as a leader and I am CM this year planning on WB in Jan, so I am just a parent.  There are 4 of us in my family and $400 a year to National is not going to be possible.  I know the original letter from National said that to cover the increase we could just sell more popcorn and that line of thinking makes me say unkind things.
    • Leave? No. I’m going to be right where I am, as CC of my daughter’s troop until she ages out, then working with my sons’ Cub pack as they get older. The program is solid at its core. I’ll take care of my local kids and they’ll have a great time. National can do whatever National does, and it doesn’t affect the day-to-day unit program a whole heck of a lot. I do agree that Cubs has gotten far, far too long. If my boys join, they’ll be waiting until Tiger or more probably Wolf. Lions is pretty ridiculous. There are only so many times you can visit the police station and go pumpkin-picking and play fitness games over five years to complete what are basically the same achievements. I understand that the pros did it to scoop kids up sooner and compete with toddler T-ball and preschool soccer - but sports are seeing youth burnout as well! Kids’ interests change and they get bored.
    • Exactly. Even if it's only that, and as @ParkMan said it's not that much, but are parents going to say "Increase? Nope. I will spend my allocated $ for youth programs elsewhere" Unfortunately, people aren't as loyal as we would like to hope. There is too much out there to be a part of. And current negativity towards the BSA, warranted or not, makes any increase a hard sell. Believe me, when I need to go to families and ask for MORE money, I will surely blame Nationals ineptitude. I have no issue throwing them under the bus.
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