Another Camping MB 9B Requirement Question :)

[fred8033]

Age limit for Eagle ... I've turned the corner on this.  I'm thinking this might be a good thing. 

* Some adults want to work on skills at the same time as their kids.  ... Example - Karate black belt
* Some adults want something in their life to work toward.
* Some adults want to make up for opportunities lost as a kid.
* Many adults are lonely and seeking friendship and social connections.

IMHO, I don't see harm in this.  Perhaps a correction to scale rank requirements should to age and capability.  Perhaps keep the same.

 

[scoutldr]

30 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

 

* Some adults want to work on skills at the same time as their kids.  ... Example - Karate black belt
* Some adults want something in their life to work toward.
* Some adults want to make up for opportunities lost as a kid.
* Many adults are lonely and seeking friendship and social connections.

 

 

One of my Scouter buddies who retired from BSA around the same time I did, was just voted "Potentate" of the local Shriners.  Perhaps BSA should consider an "Adult Division" where those over 18 can continue in the program, but separate from Cubs or Scouts. Work on skills and activities with adult peers, not with the youth.

Edited January 21 by scoutldr
Fat fingers

[InquisitiveScouter]

2 hours ago, scoutldr said:

One of my Scouter buddies who retired from BSA around the same time I did, was just voted "Potentate" of the local Shriners.  Perhaps BSA should consider an "Adult Division" where those over 18 can continue in the program, but separate from Cubs or Scouts. Work on skills and activities with adult peers, not with the youth.

Rovers

[fred8033]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Rovers

What about 27 thru 82 years old ?

[skeptic]

What if we leave the Youth program to the Youth?

[Navybone]

9 hours ago, scoutldr said:

One of my Scouter buddies who retired from BSA around the same time I did, was just voted "Potentate" of the local Shriners.  Perhaps BSA should consider an "Adult Division" where those over 18 can continue in the program, but separate from Cubs or Scouts. Work on skills and activities with adult peers, not with the youth.

But what is stopping adults from doing that now, getting together with adults with similar interests and working on the same skills? 

[qwazse]

4 hours ago, skeptic said:

What if we leave the Youth program to the Youth?

That’s been the strategy for 8 decades of membership decline.

[ddavis2708]

Does Sea Base's Sailing Adventure qualify as a non-motorized trip on the water of at least 4 hours or 5 miles?  I know they do a lot of motoring around, but does the time under sail qualify for this requirement?

[RememberSchiff]

@ddavis2708  welcome tp scouter.com.

[Tron]

11 hours ago, ddavis2708 said:

Does Sea Base's Sailing Adventure qualify as a non-motorized trip on the water of at least 4 hours or 5 miles?  I know they do a lot of motoring around, but does the time under sail qualify for this requirement?

I just looked at how Scouting America describes the sailing adventure options on the Seabase website and I would say that it does count towards 9a and 9b.

[ddavis2708]

7 hours ago, Tron said:

I just looked at how Scouting America describes the sailing adventure options on the Seabase website and I would say that it does count towards 9a and 9b.

The sailing adventure in question is staying in the sailboat out on the water at night, so I don't think that really counts towards 9a. I wasn't sure about 9b because that seems to be about canoeing or kayaking as opposed to sailing.

[Eagle94-A1]

Are your Scouts using nonmotorized means, i.e. paddling, rowing, surfing, or SAILING (emphasis)  on a trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles?
 If yes, it counts.

[DuctTape]

What are their sleeping accomodations at seabase? This is the most important detail.

[Tron]

5 hours ago, DuctTape said:

What are their sleeping accomodations at seabase? This is the most important detail.

I don't think this matters. If seascouts can use nights slept on water why can't other scouts? Why would there be a double standard? 

[InquisitiveScouter]

For requirement 9a (20 nights), the verbiage says "Each night must be spent either under the sky, in a tent you have pitched yourself (if a tent is provided and already set up, you do not need to pitch your own), in a hammock that is safely strung outdoors, in a lean-to, or other three-sided shelter with an open front. Nights spent in indoor lock-in events, cabin camping, hotel stays, or other covered accommodations do not count toward the 20 nights."  So, staying in the cabin of the sailboat does not count.  Sleeping on deck (because they are making a comfortable "ground bed" and sleeping under the stars ... sure!

Requirement 9.b. (4) says, "Take a nonmotorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles.",  So, if the sailboat travels either four hours, or five miles, under sail (not motoring), then, yes, it counts.  

Not sure where it says these nights count for Sea Scouts for Camping MB?  Reference, please?  Other than for the National Outdoor Awards Program?  "Complete 25 days and nights of camping—including six consecutive days (five nights) of camping (Sea Scouts may be on a boat), approved and under the auspices and standards of Scouting America—including nights camped as part of requirements 1 through 3 above. Scouts must complete six consecutive days (five nights) of the 25 nights at a Scouting America accredited resident camp."  https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/advancement-and-awards/noa/

[NOTE: this verbiage contradicts itself... "Sea Scouts may be on a boat" is listed before the "...under the auspices and standards of Scouting America" stipulation.  To communicate clearly, exceptions should be specifically spelled out AFTER stating the rule.]

Nothing specific about this in the Guide to Advancement:

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

Or in articles on Aaron on Scouting:

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/06/24/ask-expert-isnt-camping-night-camping-mb/

https://scoutingmagazine.org/2017/12/no-glamping-allowed/

Or the Sea Scout Manual:

https://seascout.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/3323925-Sea-Scout-Manual-PDF-Posted-02182025.pdf

Let's take this argument to its absurd extreme.  Your unit books a cruise on a cruise ship.  The cruise ship is under power, so the trip does not count for 9b, but it would count for 9a, because you are on a boat?  No.

Because there is an overwhelming number of variations on "camping" and the legalese of what constitutes camping, I look at the spirit of the thing.  And yet, it is difficult to articulate the spirit of it, as long as the "if a tent is provided and already set up, you do not need to pitch your own" clause is there...

Instead of arguing the legalities of it, this is one I ultimately leave to individual Scout, and the leader signing it off.  If you and the Scout agree those nights count, then count them.

My Scouts and I do not count them.  We did our sailing adventure... I asked our Scouts, and they agreed.  We only recorded nights spent on deck under the stars.  And we had buddy boats... one equipped with air conditioning that could be run while moored, and one without (only run while in a powered slip.)  Even the Scouts on the boat not air conditioned agreed their nights below deck should not count toward the requirement.

Final thought... if you need to rely on nights below deck to get your 20 for Camping Merit Badge... (insert a phrase appropriate for Scouting that communicates your level of individual effort just doesn't cut it...)  

Happy Trails

 

Edited 3 hours ago by InquisitiveScouter