Class A Required at Meetings

[Alec27 2]

Our troop has been going back and forth about whether or not to make the Class A mandatory at all weekly meetings.  But the question was raised...what is the official BSA position on uniform mandates, specifically as it pertains to meetings.  Or maybe there is no such official position?  Again, I'm only looking for BSA policy with regard to uniform requirements at meeting, or some type of blanket statement that would cover that topic.  I've done about 2 hrs (on and off) worth of searching and reading and cannot find anything concrete.  Thanks all, as always !

YIS

[mrjohns2 582]

Read the guide to advancement. That probably has the most definitive answer. One cannot fail a BoR for not wearing the uniform alone. So, that is about as close as you can get to a position. If the uniform isn't required for a BoR, how could it be required to wear to a meeting? Are you going to turn Scouts away if they aren't wearing it? You do know the Scouts in your troop are just volunteers, right?

[qwazse 4345]

I'll let others find the sources, but there are two opposing concepts that apply to the field uniform:

• A uniform is not required to be a member of BSA. The intent here is that we are not to discourage from membership a scout without means to buy a uniform. This goes way back to when the uniform was the most expensive aspect of membership, and a neckerchief of a particular color was the bare minimum.
• The PLC decides on the troop uniform. This typically involves neckerchief design and how/when it should be worn. It also involves defining the activity uniform. But in effect, if the PLC, for example, refuses to wear standard issue pants or shorts, what are you going to do? Furthermore, the SPL leads uniform inspection. How does an SM handle this when the SPL is okay with patrols showing up at ceremonies without their field shirt? On the other hand if the SPL has got the PLC gun ho about that impeccable head to toe  De La Renta look, how does an SM tone down expectations so that scouts with limited means can feel that sense of belonging?

So, if it's being initiated by the boys with the endorsement of the SM, we can't keep a troop from trying to look sharp. But, my suggestion to such a troop is to maintain a spare set of field uniforms so that scouts in difficult situations (either financially, or they are just coming straight from football practice ot a meeting) can have something they can put on when they get to the scout house.

[T2Eagle 902]

Qwazse has it nailed.  The uniform expectations of the troop are set, either implicitly or explicitly, by the PLC. 

When you say "Our troop has been going back and forth" do you mean the adults or the scouts?  If it's the adults they should just drop it because it's not really their call (I know they don't want to hear this).  If it's the scouts then they should be encouraged to struggle through the issues Qwazse lays out.

In direct answer to your question, the only rule you will find is the one regarding BORs.  Extrapolate from that what you will.  

If it's your adults driving this and you can't persuade them to leave it to the scouts then the best advice I can give is to ask these questions.  Do you really want scouts basing their decision to attend a meeting on whether they can or want to get their uniform on? Are you really going to send kids home who show up in no uniform?  While you may end up with a larger percentage of your scouts in uniform you will inevitably end up with fewer scouts in attendance.  Has anyone ever really thought it was a good idea to start an initiative whose accomplishment means fewer scouts?

Edited September 25, 2023 by T2Eagle

[fred8033 1593]

Troops have a big mix of families.  Some families have their act together.  Uniforms ironed and ready to go.  Others, can barely get by each day and never know where the scout uniforms are.  Others are somewhere in the middle.  ... Above answers are correct.  I just suggest thinking of this with a soft and compassionate heart.  At the same time, a well uniformed troop is a pride point for the scouts too.

[DuctTape 1231]

One thing to add to the discussion is the Uniform is one of the Methods, it is not an Aim. That the PLC understands why uniforms are part of Scouting and that they decide how to address uniforming is what is important.

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

Official policy from Guide to Awards and Insignia: (G2AI)

"While wearing the uniform is not mandatory, it is highly encouraged. The leaders of Scouting— both volunteer and professional—promote the wearing of the correct complete uniform on all suitable occasions."

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33066/33066_Official_Policy_WEB.pdf

(Entire document available at https://www.scouting.org/resources/insignia-guide/ )

Now, what is a "complete uniform"?  There are three variations "authorized" in the literature.

1.  "Field Uniform"  See the description of this in your BSA Handbook,  (page 21, as I am using the 13th Edition, 2016 printing.  YMMV.  = Shirt, Pants/Shorts, Belt, Socks, Shoes/Boots, Cap (optional per PLC), Neckerchief (optional per PLC))

2.  "Activity Uniform"  same page = "When you're headed outdoors to do something active...T-shirt with Scout pants or shorts, or wear other clothing that is appropriate for the events of the day. [emphasis added]

NOTE:  you'll notice this does not say anything specific about the "T-shirt", nor about Scout socks/belt/cap/etc for Activity Uniform.  IMO, this gives the PLC carte blanche to decide what uniform is appropriate for their outdoor activities.  [BTW, "uniform" means all alike 😜 ]

3.  Neckerchief only - "When engaged in Scouting activities, members may wear the neckerchief with appropriate nonuniform clothing to identify them as Scouts."  ("nonuniform" means they don't all have to be alike 😛 )

From the G2AI, page 13 https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33066/33066_Special_Regulations.pdf

[But, also earlier on page 13, a Troop (the PLC) may decide not to use neckerchiefs: "Scout neckerchiefs are optional. Troops choose their own official neckerchief. All members of a troop wear the same color. The troop decides by vote, and all members abide by the decision."]

The PLC decides what uniform is to be worn at meetings and events, and as "officers" of the Troop, part of their job (and every other Position of Responsibility) is to "Wear the Scout Uniform Correctly"

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/510-046_PocketCards17.pdf

Now, with all that info, what does your PLC decide to do???

Enjoy!

P.S.  If you want to wear the "full" uniform, here is a checklist/inspection sheet for determining correct wear:

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-784(23)-Scouts-Uniform-Inspection-Sheet.pdf

Incentivize the behavior you want.  If the PLC wants "full" uniform, then have an inspection, and give some awesome prizes for the three (or more??) Scouts who score the highest in whatever criteria the PLC has elected.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by InquisitiveScouter

[FireStone 423]

I'll just reiterate what others have said, that scouts are coming to meetings from a variety of situations, which include scheduling challenges, sports practices, financial difficulties, etc. Just something to keep in mind when setting Troop policy.

I think a uniform standard is great, but with a reasonable amount of flexibility to accommodate all of the circumstances that scouts and the troop might encounter. At the end of the day I'd rather see scouts in meetings than not, so if the uniform policy is in any way prohibitive to scouts coming to meetings, that would be something that I think the troop would want to correct.

[mrjohns2 582]

5 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

P.S.  If you want to wear the "full" uniform, here is a checklist/inspection sheet for determining correct wear:

I know that collars(neckercheif over or under), hats, and neckerchiefs were unit choice, I never noticed the leather vs. web was. Is that new? It still says that you should have current membership card, but makes it clear you can have digital proof. I love how they keep brining up that you can't have cuffs on the pants. It would be interesting to know who at national is anti-cuff! I have seen that in the awards and insignia guide, but never noticed it here. 

[BetterWithCheddar 125]

On 9/25/2023 at 1:52 PM, FireStone said:

I'll just reiterate what others have said, that scouts are coming to meetings from a variety of situations, which include scheduling challenges, sports practices, financial difficulties, etc. Just something to keep in mind when setting Troop policy.

Great point. I'll add: If the BSA is going to survive, it has to be OK with being every family's 2nd or 3rd favorite activity. I'm a Den Leader and it's not uncommon to see kids arrive 15 minutes late in their soccer or baseball uniform with a bag of food from Subway. You'll never hear me make a peep about their timing or appearance. I'm just glad they made it. 

 

[AwakeEnergyScouter 247]

On 10/8/2023 at 6:17 AM, BetterWithCheddar said:

I'm a Den Leader and it's not uncommon to see kids arrive 15 minutes late in their soccer or baseball uniform with a bag of food from Subway.

Heard at the end of last den meeting at 8 PM, twice from different parents: "Come on, Name-of-scout, we need to go, we haven't eaten"

Scouts were in T-shirts. Excellent. But scouts also need food in bellies.

Edited October 9, 2023 by AwakeEnergyScouter

[skeptic 997]

Reflection of our current society.  Overscheduled and overwrought.  

 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:17 AM, BetterWithCheddar said:

Great point. I'll add: If the BSA is going to survive, it has to be OK with being every family's 2nd or 3rd favorite activity. I'm a Den Leader and it's not uncommon to see kids arrive 15 minutes late in their soccer or baseball uniform with a bag of food from Subway. You'll never hear me make a peep about their timing or appearance. I'm just glad they made it. 

 

[Old man Voice] "In my day, when we were coming from {insert activity here}, we went into the bathroom and changed into our Scout uniform, AND WE LIKED IT!" (OLD MAN VOICE OVER) 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Seriously though, I remember several times coming in late and changing in the bathroom. Heck I went from a HS senior ring ceremony (semi-formal dress)with my date to an Eagle Court of Honor, changed into uniform, went to the ECOH, and as soon as the ceremony was over change back into coat and tie and go to ring dance.

But the absolute best was my girlfriend's winter formal. Prior to going, I had to MC a Court of Honor. She shows up to that in her formal, and I had my tux on a hanger. As soon as the ceremony was done, changed and  to the formal we went.😂😂😂😂

[Eagledad 2779]

On 10/8/2023 at 6:17 AM, BetterWithCheddar said:

Great point. I'll add: If the BSA is going to survive, it has to be OK with being every family's 2nd or 3rd favorite activity. I'm a Den Leader and it's not uncommon to see kids arrive 15 minutes late in their soccer or baseball uniform with a bag of food from Subway. You'll never hear me make a peep about their timing or appearance. I'm just glad they made it. 

 

My high school teacher son said his experience of low quality schools to high quality schools come down to expectation from the faculty. My experience as a scout leader from cubs to council was the same. Scouts will make an effort if they are appreciated for it. You are not giving the scouts the opportunity to shine. Even a scout shirt and football pants shows willingness to show their pride of being a scout.

Barry

[AwakeEnergyScouter 247]

39 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

My high school teacher son said his experience of low quality schools to high quality schools come down to expectation from the faculty. My experience as a scout leader from cubs to council was the same. Scouts will make an effort if they are appreciated for it. You are not giving the scouts the opportunity to shine. Even a scout shirt and football pants shows willingness to show their pride of being a scout.

Absolutely, that's all true.

The question isn't whether you should set high expectations, the question is what you do with those individuals who consistently do not meet those expectations. Do you let it slide or do you kick them out?

Are you saying kick them out, then?