Question About Investigation Procedures

[scoutlaw74]

Hello…looking for some helpful advice here. My son, who is an Eagle Scout and a member of his OA Key 5 was told today that he is under investigation at the National level for an accusation he knows nothing about (nor has he engaged in any inappropriate behavior). He’s 17 and devastated. We were just wondering what the procedures are for investigations. He is also heading into ROTC in the fall and is also applying to the military service academies. He is absolutely devastated and confused as to what this is, why it’s happening to him and what the next steps are. Can anyone please advise on what the investigation procedures are in scouting? I understand not all can be disclosed but a general understanding of what happens would be helpful to him. He is beyond devastated by this. Thank you all! 

[fred8033]

I've never heard of a national level investigation.  Local councils investigate, remove membership and submit records to national for their ineligible volunteer files.  

• Perhaps someone has heard of a national investigation.  I haven't.  
• Who told him?  Did he receive a letter telling him he is suspended from scouting pending conclusion of the investigation?  
• Does your son have any conflicts or other interpersonal experiences that might have escalated?  I've often seen over zealous complaints submitted by upset parents.  By "over zealous", I mean the complaint itself is a type of abuse against the scout and/or his family.  
• Your son might not have been directly involved.  ... example ... A bad event involving others results in a report.  Someone might have written that others knew and/or did not follow the rules.

Scouting investigates are a different breed.  It's confidential.  It's not a trial.  You don't get to see the complaint and/or defend yourself.  If there was a possibility of a crime, mandatory reporting to police would have already happened.  So, it's some type of conflict inside scouting.  ... Worst that can happen is membership revoked.  I've never seen Eagle taken away.  ... If the local council can't cleanly complete the investigation, individuals are often removed to protect BSA.  Membership is a privilege.  

IMHO ...

1. Your son should do everything he can to defend and/or protect himself.  Follow-up.
2. Move on. 
   • I love scouting, but it's not everything in the world. 
   • If the magic is gone, find the next great experience / activity / adventure.

Edited June 26, 2022 by fred8033

[MattR]

On 6/25/2022 at 2:32 PM, scoutlaw74 said:

was told today that he is under investigation at the National level

Told by who? Maybe this is just a misunderstanding. Ask the council exec what's going on.

[scoutlaw74]

Thank you so much for the advice. Since I posted here my son has learned more, and it appears that he was accused by a female scout of inappropriate behavior and making threatening statements, which are not true. Thankfully after my son has respectfully addressed the situation, and although it is being taken seriously as he and I both recognize it should be, my son is providing the council with extensive documentation to demonstrate that this did this not happen and that he was not present at the said time this allegation occurred. I am actually quite proud of him as he is definitely conducting himself in a trustworthy, courteous, obedient and patient not to mention respectful manner as an Eagle Scout should, and the council is thoroughly investigating this in a thorough manner with his complete and respectful cooperation. He is mostly saddened that a fellow scout would accuse him of this, and he doesn't understand why he was targeted other than the possibility that there is a group of girls who do not like him because he has expressed more conservative political beliefs in the past (there was also some bullying about this that had occurred prior to this toward my son, which he ignored but is now being taken into account). I deeply appreciate the advice offered, and we believe that the truth, as it always does, will prevail, and we both hope that the person who made these allegations learns and grows through the scout program from this experience.  Thank you all for your advice, this was a rough weekend, but my son is confident that the Scout Law and truth will prevail. 

[Tron]

Stay strong, defend your son. 

Once this investigation is over, if your son is reinstated to his position(s) I recommend accepting the reinstatements and then resigning after a short period (So the reinstatements are official, documented, and witnessed.). A few reasons for the eventual resignation(s), first to dissuade other false accusations by adding a cost to BSA (remember our #1 resource is volunteers), secondly to send a message that your son was volunteering and his time and commitment was as privilege to the BSA, and it's units. I hate false accusations, they weaken true reports by clouding the field, and the false accusers are never punished in a justifiable and fair manner for the damage they caused.

[scoutlaw74]

Thank you so much, he is only 17 and he is heading to the military and he is also a Spaatz Award recipient in Civil Air Patrol (which is even more rare than Eagle, and he’s the 2296th recipient in the history of CAP). He states himself that the Scout Law shapes his character and the core values of CAP, especially Integrity, shape his personal leadership philosophy. He is also a reverent scout and lives with faith in his heart. He doesn’t want to resign or lose scouting. He has remained active even after earning his Eagle rank (no “Eagling out” for him). He loves scouting and is committed to the program and we both have faith that the truth will come out. The most difficult part will be what happens when it does. My son originally asked for a restorative conversation with leadership when he first reached out about the bullying, and I know it is going to be difficult for him to deal with the consequences for the person making these accusations as I know he’ll want forgiveness and a conciliatory approach (that’s just who he is) but I don’t know if that will happen or should happen. Sadly, you’re right, stuff like this makes it incredibly difficult for BSA to discern the truth when scouts make false accusations. Ultimately the truth is going to come out, and above all, a scout is trustworthy. 

[johnsch322]

21 hours ago, scoutlaw74 said:

Since I posted here my son has learned more, and it appears that he was accused by a female scout of inappropriate behavior and making threatening statements, which are not true.

Shouldn't the inappropriate behavior and making threatening statements be reported to the police?

[qwazse]

13 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

Shouldn't the inappropriate behavior and making threatening statements be reported to the police?

Not necessarily. It may not be an actionable offense. (Most bullying is not.) Since the scout has been given scant information, we don’t know which authorities have been informed. Although we’d expect them to interview the scout by now, sometimes they do not.

Moreover, it may be a false report. In which case the accuser could be in very deep trouble were this taken to the authorities. Even if it is not taken to the authorities, this could be a very difficult time for the accuser if her claim cannot be verified.

@scoutlaw74, if your scout is a victim of a false report, he may need counseling in a few months. Vindication is not always enough to overcome the trauma of false accusation.

[jcousino]

My understanding under ypt is that scouting does not do the investigating. That's the job of children protective services (CPS) (law enforcement). Once the youth made the complaint the duty of the camp was to notify the scout ex and contract the youths parents and law enforcement. Threating statement are actionable, not sure what level the  inappropriate behavior reached. I do believe that bully is actionable in some state's. If the Youth has not been contracted by CPS by now it has not likely been reported. Scouting not following its own rules. Please if i am wrong let me know , So as a required reporter i would have called CPS myself. There no place for youth on youth violence If the lady is totally making this up making a false statement to CPS is a crime on her part

 

john

PS look at all the changes in the past 2 years in scouting to combat youth on youth problems

[Eagledad]

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

Not necessarily. It may not be an actionable offense. (Most bullying is not.) Since the scout has been given scant information, we don’t know which authorities have been informed. Although we’d expect them to interview the scout by now, sometimes they do not.

Moreover, it may be a false report. In which case the accuser could be in very deep trouble were this taken to the authorities. Even if it is not taken to the authorities, this could be a very difficult time for the accuser if her claim cannot be verified.

@scoutlaw74, if your scout is a victim of a false report, he may need counseling in a few months. Vindication is not always enough to overcome the trauma of false accusation.

We live in strange times. Seems that false accusations is becoming a common method of acting out at other people. My high school teacher son says the schools deal with it almost daily. And while many of the accusations are are obviously untrue at the time they are reported, they have to be investigate to show no bias. Forum moderators even have to deal with some of this stuff. 

Barry

[Eagle94-A1]

1 hour ago, jcousino said:

My understanding under ypt is that scouting does not do the investigating. That's the job of children protective services (CPS) (law enforcement). Once the youth made the complaint the duty of the camp was to notify the scout ex and contract the youths parents and law enforcement. Threating statement are actionable, not sure what level the  inappropriate behavior reached. I do believe that bully is actionable in some state's. If the Youth has not been contracted by CPS by now it has not likely been reported. Scouting not following its own rules.

Law enforcement may have been called in and it is being investigated by them. Those things do take time. HOWEVER, BSA policy is to remove the accused from Scouting, EVEN IF NO EVIDENCE IS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME (caps for emphasis), The safety of the members is paramount.

1 hour ago, jcousino said:

 If the lady is totally making this up making a false statement to CPS is a crime on her part

It may be a crime, but how many folks making false reports actually get convicted? There are numerous accounts of false reporting in the news. Incidents at Columbia and Duke Universities immediately come to mind. And do not forget the guy in Georgia, who went to jail for a number of years, because of a false report and perjury during the trial. He was later exonerated when the accuser finally admitted she lied.

And I know a Scout who falsely accused a Scouter. The Scouter was removed immediately from Scouting, and placed in the IVF, DESPITE THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION SHOWING CONCLUSIVELY THAT HER STORY WAS THE TRUE STORY! (caps for emphasis). She was never reinstated. As for the "Scout," he eventually received Eagle and continued with his life as normal. Nothing happened to him. 

 

 

[scoutlaw74]

Wow, these are really horrible things…thankfully my son is forthcoming, cooperative, respectful and patient. He is providing all that he can to support his innocence, and it appears that the council is demonstrating trustworthiness and is thoroughly investigating, which he knows the truth will come out of. My scout is also reverent, and he is holding onto his faith, Sunday night he fell asleep in prayer with a blemished rustic knotted wooden cross he loves in his hands. I do have faith that truth will prevail for him.

[FormerCubmaster]

3 hours ago, jcousino said:

My understanding under ypt is that scouting does not do the investigating. That's the job of children protective services (CPS) (law enforcement). Once the youth made the complaint the duty of the camp was to notify the scout ex and contract the youths parents and law enforcement. Threating statement are actionable, not sure what level the  inappropriate behavior reached. I do believe that bully is actionable in some state's. If the Youth has not been contracted by CPS by now it has not likely been reported. Scouting not following its own rules. Please if i am wrong let me know , So as a required reporter i would have called CPS myself. There no place for youth on youth violence If the lady is totally making this up making a false statement to CPS is a crime on her part

 

john

PS look at all the changes in the past 2 years in scouting to combat youth on youth problems

At least in my state, CPS won’t investigate child-on-child verbal bullying unless there is an element of physicality to it or unless the victim and perp live together.  (Threats of physical violence would be referred to law enforcement, not CPS.)

[scoutlaw74]

This is something my son and I have discussed….this is very, very serious, and my son knows it, he also knows he didn’t do this and he has faith that the truth will come out. He was following the buddy system too. What I don’t understand is how can a scout make such a serious false accusation and persist in doing so? How does a scout live with themselves in good conscience having done something that can ultimately be illegal? My son, having taken to heart the lessons of scouting, and he had an amazing scoutmaster who constantly taught his scouts this, still says that when this is all over he hopes that whoever did this still has a chance to remain in scouting and to learn and grow from this, in other words, forgiveness. I have always said that the true measure of a scout is how they live the scout law when its hard to do so, when one is faced with a challenge, my son is doing just that…this all just demonstrates what a wonderful program scouting is, and I believe there will be a positive outcome from this experience. 

[elitts]

23 hours ago, johnsch322 said:

Shouldn't the inappropriate behavior and making threatening statements be reported to the police?

It would depend on the nature of the statements and the behavior.  Making serious "credible" threats is a crime, but not every threat is both serious and credible; and while bullying is bad, not every instance of someone being mean, or rude or anything else is actually bullying. 

The standard for making a report to police or CPS needs to be based upon what an average person might think is a problem, not simply what ANY person happens to report as bullying or inappropriate behavior.  Particularly since there is so much bad information out there as to what "bullying" or "sexual harassment" actually mean.

*begining anecdote *

Twenty some years ago I was manager of a public pool and I had a woman come up to me absolutely livid about one of my lifeguards.  She wanted me to know that she was going to be reporting one of my male guards (who was doing "in-pool duty" that day) to the parks department, police, and anyone else who would listen because "he was sexually harassing her 13-14 year old daughter by touching himself while looking at her and had done it repeatedly".  Given the fact that he was unequivocally gay, that seemed pretty.unlikely so I asked if she'd like me to speak with him immediately and she agreed, so I called him out of the pool.  As he climbed out he grabbed the front of his trucks again briefly; the mom gasped and said "There! You see!  He just did it again! It's disgusting!" 

So I stifled a sigh, waved him away and then spent the next 5 minutes discussing the horrible elastic mesh inside men's swimsuits, the bad interior cut if our employer issued trunks and his complete disinterest in girls at all, let alone under-age ones. (And I later had a conversation with the guard about being a little more discreet)