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AltadenaCraig

"Scoutmaster' Title Doomed?

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When a Texas realty group abandons the term "Master Bedroom", how long before references to "Scoutmaster" meet the same fate?  https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article243816787.html

Truth be told, Clarke Green and 'Ask Andy' have long observed that the B-P coined "Scoutmaster" as it related to "Schoolmaster", emphasizing the "teacher" aspect rather than "master" in the day.  An important distinction if you're adhering to Scout-led-troop principles:  the true 'master' is the SPL, with SM's & ASM's as "teachers".  https://scoutmastercg.com/just-what-does-scoutmaster-mean/.

To be sure, I find myself occasionally using the redundant "Adult Scouter" simply to avoid using "Adult Leader", a term which frosts me because I want the leaders in my troops to be the scouts, not the adults.  Nevertheless, I'd prefer any changes in titles to be on OUR terms and not because we're kowtowing to unreasonable demands of PC run amok.

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1 minute ago, AltadenaCraig said:

When a Texas realty group abandons the term "Master Bedroom", how long before references to "Scoutmaster" meet the same fate?

If that comes to pass BSA will have jumped the shark...

We as a nation have truly lost our minds and common sense.

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It is inevitable.  Been happening in tech for some years now.  See https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/12/tech-industry-has-an-ugly-master-slave-problem/.  You'll note in the article Yale stopped using the title master for the heads of their respective Colleges.  The BSA has already signalled their virtue, they will have to submit to every demand moving forward.

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That's funny because I've never liked Scoutmaster or Cubmaster. I always thought the titles were weird. For an organization trying to distance itself from youth abuse issues, it always made my skin crawl. So maybe one good thing to come out of this.  Although before people immolate me with flaming brands of scout horror, I completely respect that others have a different opinion. 

 

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Nonsense.  Push the hype and try to panic weak minded Chicken Littles.  That is not what we teach the youth, or it should not be.  "On My Honor".  Honor is all that we truly need as we wend our ways through the self-centered crowds to the exit of the maze.  If we have our compass, we will be fine.

 

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4 hours ago, skeptic said:

Nonsense.  Push the hype and try to panic weak minded Chicken Littles.  That is not what we teach the youth, or it should not be.

One man's hype to panic weak minded Chicken Littles is another man's Being Prepared, which we do teach the youth.

I'm keeping my powder dry as I lean toward Nonsense, but I'm also contemplating alternatives just in case.  #1 on my list: "Scoutguider".

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Fine. Call me an Assisstant

  • Elder Scouter
  • Scoutchieftan
  • Scouter Superior
  • Scout Commandant
  • Scoutherd
  • Scout Handbook Thumper

Don't anyone dare call me a Scout Guide/Explainer/Demonstrator/Enabler.

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27 minutes ago, qwazse said:

 

  • Scoutchieftan
  • Scouter Superior
  • Scout Commandant
  • Scoutherd

 

You would do well to familiarize yourself with the article referenced in the OP.  References such as those smack exactly of the kind of "tyrants and tin gods, renegades and recalcitrants, bullies and belligerents, dictators, martinets, and “world’s oldest Patrol Leaders” masquerading as Scoutmasters" we need to eschew.  And no, I'm not so mean-spirited as to downvote your post.

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I vote to borrow the term "Advisor" from the old Exploring and now Venturing program.. With new emphasis that the adult Scouters are there to "advise" the "Leaders" who are the SPL and PLC.  The do not decide, they do not dictate, they facilitate.  The advise the program that the YOUTH decide on, and ensure safety and adherence to the GTA and GTSS.  In the decades that I have been associated with the program, I have seen the gradual "helicopterism" taking over such that the youth merely sit there and wait for instructions from the adults.  You don't sign me up for a MB University, I don't earn MB.  You don't spoonfeed me advancement and sign me off because I sat there and listened to a lecture, no rank.  No direction, no action taken.  It's the way we are raising them, and it's wrong.  I have family members with "kids" pushing 30 who still can't function as adults.  It's sad.

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If a down vote is mean spirited, why is it on a scouting forum? I thought we all agreed to disagree agreeably.
 

Barry

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3 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

If a down vote is mean spirited, why is it on a scouting forum? I thought we all agreed to disagree agreeably.

Well, since you asked, I don't think it should be on the forum.  There's a reason it's not an option on Facebook, for example.  A downvote is aggressive, IMHO, and has no place except perhaps in outrageous posts; and even then the better option is to "report".  Ditch the downvote.  Now back to the topic at hand ...

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There's nothing mean-spirited in down-voting a post. I've made quite clear elsewhere,

There is no harm in learning that someone thinks we have a really bad idea. In this case ... concerning ourselves  over every twist and turn that language may take, rather than looking at how a word is referenced over centuries.   

22 minutes ago, AltadenaCraig said:

You would do well to familiarize yourself with the article referenced in the OP.  References such as those smack exactly of the kind of "tyrants and tin gods, renegades and recalcitrants, bullies and belligerents, dictators, martinets, and “world’s oldest Patrol Leaders” masquerading as Scoutmasters" we need to eschew. ...

OK, sarcasm. I had a longer list (pastor for PL, bishop for SPL, cardinal for SM), but I didn't want to belabor the point that language is not the terrible oppressor that people make it out to be. Yes, I've read CG's article, and Commissioner Andy's when it was originally written. And the bottom line is:

Quote

"Let’s begin, first of all, by throwing the rascals out. That’s right: dump ‘em. Got a Scoutmaster that just doesn’t get it? Get rid of him."

Note that Andy's solution was not "Call him a Scout Guide instead." Changing the language does not get rid of the problem. Getting rid of the tyrant gets rid of the problem.

I wish @scoutldr's point  would work:

14 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

I vote to borrow the term "Advisor" from the old Exploring and now Venturing program.. ....

It's true that learning to advise a crew made me a better ASM, but only after solid training as an advisor. I think that's one of the blessings of a well run HA base, if an adult can afford to take a crew there ... they give adults a solid experience of giving the youth the reigns. I have seen real tyrants of advisors. If venturing were more popular and teens didn't have other options, we'd see even more of tyrannical advisors, and because demand outstrips supply, commissioners would be hard pressed to remove them. And honestly, at WSJ exactly what was written on an adults patch made no difference in how they managed their youth. Their various experiences did.

My best suggestion: get your leadership trainees to crack open a reference (Bible or Oxford English Dictionary). Show how the term "master" has been used as titles for both landlords and rabbis. Ask them which one they think the folks in their care need.

 

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7 minutes ago, qwazse said:

My best suggestion: get your leadership trainees to crack open a reference (Bible or Oxford English Dictionary). Show how the term "master" has been used as titles for both landlords and rabbis. Ask them which one they think the folks in their care need.

This EXACTLY makes the point.  Sisyphus had more success rolling his rock than we should expect to have attempting to justify 'master' because the audience is not our leadership trainees but rather all the others we wish to attract.  Among ourselves questioning "Scoutmaster" sounds silly, I completely agree.  But to expect showing others "how the term 'master' has been used as titles" is preposterous.  I'm on board with scoutldr's suggestion to appropriate "Advisor".

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