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Do you really believe that the BSA will ever even be able to get insurance coverage again?  If an insurance carrier is willing to provide insurance do you think that after everything is said and done the BSA could afford insurance.  My point is that the national level BSA is being squeezed to death and we will have to work locally if the BSA or the Boy Scouts or Scouting USA or whatever it's going to be called,  is going to survive.  The Boy Scouts of America is in desperate straits and if the locals dont work to save some piece of it, it's going to die.

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What is legally right is not always morally right.

In the case of Scouting, the BSA may dissolve in this bankruptcy, if so, it will be replaced and Scouting will move on.  IMHO, Scouting is an idea, a philosophy of life, not an organization.  Ano

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34 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

Do you really believe that the BSA will ever even be able to get insurance coverage again?  If an insurance carrier is willing to provide insurance do you think that after everything is said and done the BSA could afford insurance.  My point is that the national level BSA is being squeezed to death and we will have to work locally if the BSA or the Boy Scouts or Scouting USA or whatever it's going to be called,  is going to survive.  The Boy Scouts of America is in desperate straits and if the locals dont work to save some piece of it, it's going to die.

It's possible but is likely very problematic. Organizations that mess up and declare bankruptcy can still get insurance, but it's generally expensive and comes with lots of strings and BSA's fall has been so public. But anything local not under at least that wide national umbrella still trying to affiliate with scouts might not be able to afford or get any kind of insurance at all. The local solution you cite depends on an individual being willing to assume all that risk personally.  This is all open water. 

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On 7/30/2020 at 4:52 PM, walk in the woods said:

10000 now and another 3+ months of advertising to go.

There is an hour long infomercial playing in my area about this. Lawyers are really trolling for clients. 

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Open water is a very applicable term. It may be that each charterd organization has to cover the individual unit or perhaps each key leader will have to obtain special liability insurance.  If something like this happens I know many leaders will walk away and more charterd organizations will also back away. This will cause the BSA to really shrink. I just hope that we dedicated scouters can figure out how to just survive.

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I admit I am very pessimistic. A lot of what is occurring has been predicted here and elsewhere. And COVID doesn't help matters.

As much as I would love all three of my sons to make Eagle, I don't know if the youngest will due to everything going on. Oldest will have his ECOH this month, COVID and Weather permitting, And Middle Son is Life. His goal is to get it by the end of next summer. But youngest has not been in long, and is Second Class. And I don't push advancement. I push the skills and self confidence.

So even if the BSA ceases to exist, I know my boys have benefited. Plus there are other "Scouting" organizations out there, just not recognized by WOSM.

Edited by Eagle94-A1
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2 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

I just hope that we dedicated scouters can figure out how to just survive.

To survive, we need to appeal to people who exist outside our close circle of dedicated scouters, dedicated parents, and dedicated scouts.  We can depend on most of the choir.  We need to fill the pews.  

More than half of my troop was made up of boys who would not have ranked scouting as their number-one activity.  Most of them did not come from families with a generational history of scouting, and they did not join as a matter-of-course.  

Scouting is a little bit like politics.  You cannot win an election by appealing only to your base.  You have to go after the independent and undecided voters.  

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17 hours ago, tnmule20 said:

Do you really think the Middle Tennessee council has a target on it's back now?  Will they be unfairly targeted?

Yes, and it is not "unfairly targeted" if a) you seek and get an injunction or stay of 35+ lawsuits against your organization and then b) try to play hide-the-assets in the meantime.

Stay means stay: it means ALL parties halt their efforts to either grab assets (plaintiffs) or hide assets (defendants) until either a) a settlement or b) special court permission.

For example, when National has had to hire people for contract work (and thereby spend assets) they got special permission from the court to do so. That's fine; if the court says you can spend or transfer certain assets during the stay then you are in the clear.

What is not ok and yes does get a target on your back is when you try to use the stay or injunction like this.

Middle Tennessee just bought themselves (and National if they can prove National knew about it) a world of hurt.

 

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15 hours ago, Mrjeff said:

Do you really believe that the BSA will ever even be able to get insurance coverage again?  If an insurance carrier is willing to provide insurance do you think that after everything is said and done the BSA could afford insurance.  My point is that the national level BSA is being squeezed to death and we will have to work locally if the BSA or the Boy Scouts or Scouting USA or whatever it's going to be called,  is going to survive.  The Boy Scouts of America is in desperate straits and if the locals dont work to save some piece of it, it's going to die.

Yes, they'll get insurance. At astronomical premiums.

And for all the calls for "local scouting", that's fine. But you'll still have to insure or bond. Heck I can remember being on my local Babe Ruth Baseball board and the single biggest expense each year was paying the insurance/bond fee.

If you plan to have any kind of youth organization, you will absolutely have to have either insurance under the chartered organization or go buy your own. And if you use the phrase "scouting" the insurance companies are going to go nuts with the premiums.

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11 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

As much as I would love all three of my sons to make Eagle, I don't know if the youngest will due to everything going on.

My own believe remains there will be a "shell" of a BSA and that Eagle will still exist.

My committee chair, however is in the "they are doomed" camp. had a meeting with myself and the SM and insisted that the Star/Life we have are going to get pushed through before December 31, 2020 and that after that all bets are off.

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12 minutes ago, tnmule20 said:

Will this mean that Philmont is no longer open for treks until this is settled?

No. This is just appearance of counsel. Think of it as an introduction.
 

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Hi, my name is The Waite and Genevieve Phillips Foundation. You can call me "The Foundation."

So...I hear you want to seize my assets and possibly sell them off? Or are thinking about it? If so, you can talk directly to my lawyers. Here is their name, phone number, and email. Thanks.

 

Edited by CynicalScouter
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So, I find myself wondering how the lawyers at the core of this suit, the ones that most of us see for what they are, would respond to a concerted effort by interested legal parties to dig back into their families and drag out fifty year old family related bad acts or poor responses to them.  Just conjecture, and it is really not a Scout-like idea.  Still, I really detest their distortions and attitudes.  But they threw the first rocks.

 

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10 hours ago, CynicalScouter said:

My own believe remains there will be a "shell" of a BSA and that Eagle will still exist.

My committee chair, however is in the "they are doomed" camp. had a meeting with myself and the SM and insisted that the Star/Life we have are going to get pushed through before December 31, 2020 and that after that all bets are off.

I don't see the point in pushing through advancement requirements before BSA goes under.  What value will there be in having a uniform patch from a defunct organization?  It would be far better for the boys to just focus on having fun.

 

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