Hawkwin Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Last summer.... Scout/Venturing activity at council camp.... Venturing girl wearing short-shorts and t-shirt with knot in bottom... Spent her time "prancing" (not my description) in front of the boys.... Kept it up until my female ASM confronted her and told her to go get dressed and come back when she's ready to behave. It happens, and it will happen again. This is just the beginning. With 45+ year working with co-ed groups, I can assure everyone this is only the beginning. Your anecdotal example seems like a good result. A scout behaving poorly and a leader taking care of it. No other scout did anything inappropriate based on what she was wearing. Seems like a win to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 The BSA has Youth Protection and two-deep leadership. This should help protect everyone regarding matters of privacy. Follow the guidelines and behave properly and any leader, male or female, should be fine. I don't think there's anything to worry about... unless a person is behaving badly. Then yes, that person should be very, very worried. Sadly, YP and 2 deep do not cover everything. Nor is everyone in Scouting a true 'Scout.' We had a situation where one of our female Scouters was in the shower house during the scheduled time, which was after youth lights out. One youth was caught being a peeping Tom by her and she reported him. The Scout accused her of making a pass at him when confronted with being out after hours and being around the shower house. Because it was a case of "he said, she said," she had her membership as a volunteer permanently revoked by national and placed in the ineligible volunteer files. He got a slap on the wrist for being out after hours I have personal experience with this "Scout," and his attempt to lie himself out of a situation. I will add one more. A professional once told me some years ago that there are, what he called, Boy Scout babies. These are babies that were conceived on a BSA campout. He would not give details. But things can and do happen. Barry I can vouch for that. Where there is a will there is a way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I can vouch for that. Where there is a will there is a way. Why does Will always get blamed for everything? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) For all those scouters out there, there's a whole new learning curve out there not yet tapped by National BSA. Sadly, YP and 2 deep do not cover everything. Nor is everyone in Scouting a true 'Scout.' We had a situation where one of our female Scouters was in the shower house during the scheduled time, which was after youth lights out. One youth was caught being a peeping Tom by her and she reported him. The Scout accused her of making a pass at him when confronted with being out after hours and being around the shower house. Because it was a case of "he said, she said," she had her membership as a volunteer permanently revoked by national and placed in the ineligible volunteer files. He got a slap on the wrist for being out after hours I have personal experience with this "Scout," and his attempt to lie himself out of a situation. This does not surprise me one bit! The authorities will ALWAYS!!! take the side of the youth. It is as if KIDS CAN"T LIE at this age. YPT two adults AT ALL TIMES whe dealing with youth in a difficult situation. YPT is NOT for the youth's protection as I have said multiple times, it is for the SCOUTER's protection!! Ever get called out of your place of work to "discuss outside" something with the local police department? It's no fun. Fortunately I had multiple witnesses or I would have been sunk. Instead the kid was praised for being courageous enough to speak up. No, the kid should have been arrested for telling a lie that could have ruined someone's life. I checked with a lawyer on that and he said "The authorities will ALWAYS!!! take the side of the youth. Including judges." He told me I was lucky and to forget about it. Luck only lasts so long. I've gotten 45+ years out of the deal, but now I know what to expect from these kids. BSA might have "liability insurance" for such situations, but I personally also carry a $1,000,000 umbrella policy as well. This is the new norm in Scouting. Pandora's box is open... Edited November 21, 2017 by RememberSchiff spelling: Pansora replaced with Pandora :) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 As I recall, Stosh was among the first on this forum advising fellow scouters carry their own $1M personal liability insurance. Very good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Why does Will always get blamed for everything? It's not blame, it's just that Will knows how to do everything!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 It's not blame, it's just that Will knows how to do everything!!! Is that why you Civil War reenactors are always firing at Will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle94-A1 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 For all those scouters out there, there's a whole new learning curve out there not yet tapped by National BSA. This does not surprise me one bit! The authorities will ALWAYS!!! take the side of the youth. It is as if KIDS CAN"T LIE at this age. YPT two adults AT ALL TIMES whe dealing with youth in a difficult situation. YPT is NOT for the youth's protection as I have said multiple times, it is for the SCOUTER's protection!! Ever get called out of your place of work to "discuss outside" something with the local police department? It's no fun. Fortunately I had multiple witnesses or I would have been sunk. Instead the kid was praised for being courageous enough to speak up. No, the kid should have been arrested for telling a lie that could have ruined someone's life. I checked with a lawyer on that and he said "The authorities will ALWAYS!!! take the side of the youth. Including judges." He told me I was lucky and to forget about it. Luck only lasts so long. I've gotten 45+ years out of the deal, but now I know what to expect from these kids. BSA might have "liability insurance" for such situations, but I personally also carry a $1,000,000 umbrella policy as well. This is the new norm in Scouting. Pandora's box is open... Even having another adult is not always safe. I was with 2 other adults and 3 other Scouts in the situation I had with the "Scout" above. Long story short until the 3 other youth told the contingent leaders the truth, that they snuck out after curfew and when we caught them and tried to take them back and they ran off, we were being blamed for allowing youth to be out on the college campus after the conference's lights out. Yep, only when the other youth told the truth were the 3 adults believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 In Scouting, youth uphold values to a higher standard than the general population. I wish that were true. In my experience, Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts behave no better and no worst than the average kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) Your anecdotal example seems like a good result. A scout behaving poorly and a leader taking care of it. No other scout did anything inappropriate based on what she was wearing. Seems like a win to me. I wonder how many male leaders had seen her inappropriate behavior and chose the safer path of not confronting her. I wouldn't hesitate to correct one of my female students at school, but I wouldn't want to do it at a scouting activity. It is a lot less safe to do the right thing as a leader in scouting. Edited November 21, 2017 by David CO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I wonder how many male leaders had seen her inappropriate behavior and chose the safer path of not confronting her. I wouldn't hesitate to correct one of my female students at school, but I wouldn't want to do it at a scouting activity. It is a lot less safe to do the right thing as a leader in scouting. It's not so much a matter of "less safe", but of unknown odds. A teacher knows the track record of a school backing corrective action (or not). Scouters aren't so certain about who has their back if someone decides to pillory them. Following YPT should keep the odds in your favor, but not by much. And, because experience with BSA4G-type scenarios is limited, we can't get a good grip on the odds of false reports. Frankly, even now, I don't think BSA can produce any stats on rates of abuse reports vs confirmed abuse in recent decades. So, we don't know if we're going up, down, or sideways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwin Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 BSA might have "liability insurance" for such situations, but I personally also carry a $1,000,000 umbrella policy as well. I have the same, and this is a really good recommendation for everyone regardless of their volunteer status. Such policies are rather cheap for the amount of coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I have the same, and this is a really good recommendation for everyone regardless of their volunteer status. Such policies are rather cheap for the amount of coverage. Our district was advising us to carry an umbrella policy 25 years ago. I also raised the max liability on my car insurance. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwilkins Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I wouldn't hesitate to correct one of my female students at school, but I wouldn't want to do it at a scouting activity. It is a lot less safe to do the right thing as a leader in scouting. I suppose I don't have a choice (well, I do, I could leave) but as we have mixed scouting in the UK, we just get on with it. If one of mine is misbehaving, they get told. If one of mine needs some comforting words, they get them. It matters not what flavour they are. No comeback so far (touch wood) and I've been doing this leader stuff 20+ years. I guess at any time any one of my previous charges could turn round and say "Ian did this bad thing" but I still don't see what gender has to do with it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) I still don't see what gender has to do with it. Gender has everything to do with it. There are women and girls who become highly agitated when confronted by men. They feel it is demeaning to be in a subordinate role to a man. We have had male teachers point out dress code violations by girls, and had the mothers respond by filing complaints stating that the male teachers shouldn't be noticing how their daughters are dressed, implying that the men are leering at their teenage girls. Apparently, the best defense is a good offense. I put up with this nonsense at school because it is my job, but I don't want to have it in scouting. Edited November 21, 2017 by David CO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Posted by Tampa Turtle,
1 reaction
Go to this post
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now