desertrat77

I concur with Sentinel and Gunny. It's a blend of troop culture, and the SPL's personal strengths and leadership style. When I was SPL, a long time ago, I was the PL of PL type.

Thoughts and prayers....

I agree with Dean's comment about the citizenship series. Those 3 MBs are profoundly dull and of little value, other than testing the resolve of potential Eagle candidates. Combine them into one and call it a day.

PJ, Two pesos from an old guy..... Your education, at this point, is far more important than scouting. Ace your classes, get your degree. Scouting will be there when you are done. Please keep us posted, wish you the best.

Ugh, such parents are the bane of all scouters. They are an expert on everything, and contribute nothing but heartache. A million years ago, when I was a SM, a mother wire brushed me about the grossly high cost of her son's share of the patrol food bill for a camporee (about four bucks per scout). I was incompetent, the scouts were wasteful, and she fed a big family for literally pennies per serving, etc. I bit my tongue, listened as patiently as I could, and said "Ma'am, that's great...would you care to be our keynote speaker at our next troop meeting, and teach the boys how plan their menu and buy food the right way?" She gasped, and didn't say another word. She just excused herself and left. She never had another lecture for me.

Agreed, it's salesmanship. The military stuff is his angle. While I wouldn't buy anything, I don't see anything wrong either.

Overall, I'm fine with the mods. Sure, in the course of some of these threads, folks get steamed and type things that may be a bit over the line. Others get wire brushed by another forum member, rabbits get chased, dead horses get deader, but that's okay. Better choppy seas now and again, and letting the ship right itself, than the heavy-handed editing that happens elsewhere, as NJCubScouter accurately observed.

Welcome Duckfoot!

Congratulations to your son and thanks for posting, SR540Beaver! We need more threads like this.

Now that you mention it, perhaps this will increase attendance at district meetings: Open bar

SP, Twocubdad is right. I think you've got it backwards. District needs manpower? They need to recruit from elsewhere, and not siphon folks from the units. Is the district interested in what the unit leaders have to say? Then the district folks need to go to the units, via unit commissioners and roundtable (in many places, but not all), and cracker barrells at camporee and summer camp. Nothing, in scouting, should distract a unit scouter from serving their unit.

Scoutnut, really like your description of how the UC works in this process, well said.

SP, good thoughts, but I agree with Scoutnut--improve the RTs first. In my experience, district committee meetings are interesting to district folks, but not alot of value to unit scouters. Sure, they are welcome, but it's another two hour meeting to attend after a long day at work. Also, in some districts I've belonged to, the district committee meetings weren't much value to the district folks either. Rehashing the same issues, no resolution, same intrigue amongst the old timers, etc. Waste of time. I'd attend but bolt for the door the minute we were adjourned. Most unit scouters must balance work, family and scouting. Adding another meeting to the mix doesn't strike me as necessary.

I concur with Stosh. As long as the trailer is structurally sound, let ugly be. Less likely to be stolen or broken into.

Good point(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

The banquet wasn't a banquet, and folks that were responsible for the failure should know about it--in clear, frank language. Including a request for a refund. Having been to a couple goat ropes like this, the responsible parties would probably scoff at that, insisting that the banquet cost X (even though it stunk) and there is no way they could refund it. But I'd press the point, if only to further let them know how far they missed the mark. Basement, I like the hard ass approach as well and applaud it. Dude doesn't rsvp? That's fine, pay more at the door and eat last. When the non-rsvp'ers feast upon that half a scoop of crusty mashed potatoes, and some over done green beans, and the fatty remains of the steamship round, perhaps they'll begin to understand the purpose of picking up the phone and rsvping next time, so the planners can actually plan. True, there will always be a couple folks that drop in, and that shouldn't be a problem. But a herd of lazy meal crashers? Unsat. Alas, non-rsvp'ing is a trend, it seems, doesn't matter whether it's your kids' birthday party, an official event at work, or a formal scouting dinner. Even with all of our alledged superior communication devices, and finely honed communications skills......

I think the proposed chapters are pretty well covered, save one, and SSScout already addressed the catering part: "Your Coronation Ceremony is All About You, New Eagle!" With helpful hints on how pick the most ponderous script, complete with solemn made-up Eagle oath; how to adequately recognize mom and dad for their selfless sacrifice in beating down anyone who stood in the way of Johnny earning the Eagle award that mom and dad, uh, I mean Johnny, so richly deserves; expensive buffets to astound, commemorate, as well as increase family debt; and a handy list of 476,398 politicians, actors, athletes, artists, business people, military leaders, and others, who are more than willing to have a college intern crank out a computer generated yet personalized and completely sincere phony baloney congratulations letter, signed with auto pen, especially made just for YOU, Mr. Eagle Scout!

The solution can be found in our past: de-emphasize Eagle. Stop the over-the-top salesmanship of the wonderment of earning Eagle. Tone down the coronation-like Eagle ceremonies. Cease the chase for numbers (more more more!). Cancel MB universities. Close down the Tenderfoot to First Class force-feed sessions at summer camp. Cut homework MBs and Eagle project bureaucracy. More emphasis on being a PL and SPL, and outdoor skills. Do the leg work to find MB counselors on one's own time. Then the situation will correct itself. The scouts who really want Eagle will over come any obstacle to earn it. They'll be the best.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Old Scout, your experience brought a smile and jogged a memory, hadn't thought of it in years--hiked all day to Clear Creek in a very cold rain...set up camp, still raining...oh yes, a hot meal would be nice...it was a struggle as every stick of wood seemed soaked thru but the job got done. Concur 100 percent, easier done as a teen than at the half century mark!(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Old Scout, well said, the values are the same. And outdoor adventure can still be found in the BSA. Which leads me to one more observation, for good or ill: Philmont past - fire to cook meals Philmont present - stoves I suppose the stoves are an improvement. Carry a saw and axe, or a stove and fuel. As a scout on a late-summer trek during the cook fire-every-meal days, the woods at Philmont were picked pretty clean near the campsites. Did two 50 milers (Grand Canyon, and then Philmont)...adults along both times. A couple of the adults were more trouble than they were worth, particularly from the scouts' point of view. A few were truly the real deal, outstanding scouters.

Cito, though it's been almost three decades, I'm still wrapping my mind around the two year Webelos plan...seems too long to me. I recall Webelos as the final, one-year hurdle to being a full fledged Boy Scout, and we couldn't wait join a troop. Packsaddle: I hear you, there are places in AZ, where I was a scout, that today I would be hesitant to even stay past sunset, much less camp. As a military guy who moves alot, I'm pleased to say there are some places still in the US where a patrol could camp safely. I've been stationed in a few rural locations where some farmers and ranchers would let scouts camp on their land. Lots of firewood, wildlife, and everyone knows each other. Eamonn: I too have noticed the shrinking of many summer camp schedules. Nice camps that would have been open several weeks back in the day, now fully operational three or four weeks. As you said, less scouts today. Also, I've seen the trend where some troops go to a different camp each year, out of council, which I fully support and understand on one hand. On the other, I'm personally a traditionalist who will attend and support my council camp thru thick and thin. (This message has been edited by desertrat77)

OldScout, Great topic! With some breaks in service as an adult, my scouting timeline mirrors yours--71 to present. Where to start? - Past: "one canteen of water a day should suffice/don't get tricked into thinking you are thirsty" - Present: drink alot of water...alot - Past: steel/plastic GI quart canteens...get em from the surplus store for a buck or so - Present: expensive "hydration systems" - Past: pioneering projects like giant signal towers and monkey bridges, and sheath knives are okay--just order one from the BSA catalog, if you want an official version - Present: Sitting around summer camp at a picnic table writing essays and other homework for MBs that could be done on cold winter days - Past: "You want to make Eagle? Good luck, get to work. Let me know how it works out for you." - Present: MB universities, T21C day care centers for new scouts at summer camp, etc...drag Johnny across the goal line - Past: 10 dollar or less Yucca pack - Present: High-dollar gucci gear to carry sandwiches and extra socks - Past: OA is an honor reserved for the best outdoorsmen, and being active is not for the lazy - Present: OA is a participation ribbon, and please active in OA and pay your dues...we've got lots of cool lodge flaps and have fun! Um, gosh, why isn't anyone showing up? - Past: As a scouter, scoutcraft proficiency and leadership in the outdoors were the hallmarks of success - Present: Outdoor skills are things to keep the scouts occupied...managerial science is the most important thing about being a scouter Okay, I painted with a broad brush on some of these...guilty as charged. But there is a grain of truth nonetheless. There are some things that are vastly better...I applaud the BSA's efforts in better youth protection, separate latrine/shower facilities for adults and scouts...less tolerance for poor behavior on the adult and scout levels (abuse, bullying, etc). Adventure is still present in scouting, but I think it is downplayed in alot of places. Outdoor adventure is the BSA's best selling draw than transcends generations and fads. (This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Nike summed it up well--don't sweat it. I'm intrigued by Calloohs' SOF example, too.

Eagle92's guidance is spot on. The stick, hike, etc., are new to me. I recall a) tenure b) a good amount of memorization and c) reciting it back. Then a ceremony.

JM, well said.