desertrat77

Obesity is a good problem to tackle. I'll add another: lack of moral compass.

Howarthe, the UC, the trusted friend to the unit, is a good idea. And good when it works as advertised. But that's rare. Regretfully (and speaking as a registered UC), UCs are far and few between these days. (I've been in four districts, four different states, last six years, due to military moves.) The UC corps is something that exists mostly on paper. UCs had (and still have) a bad reputation in some places. Characteristics: never around when you need them, or around too much (meddling); upstaging the unit leadership; pompous uniform policemen; spies for the district; WB salesmen; and the like. As a UC, it has been interesting to see how units perceive and utilize me. Some are wary, others are welcoming but unsure of my role. Either way, I stay on message: I work for the unit. Not the other way around. So where are they? Either empty slots, or filling a slot but not fulfilling their duties Why weren't they around when you needed them? I can identify...many years ago, I moved up from ASM to SM in a troop that darn near folded when the SM was fired. DE himself promised help and that was the last I saw him or anyone from the district. Many district scouters are awfully interested in what goes on in the district. No so much in the unit. What should you expect? In addition to the official UC duties--sounding board. Cutting through red tape at the district and council. Advocate. Tackling projects and finding answers from agencies outside the unit. Lending a hand at the blue/gold banquet if an extra server is needed or putting the chairs away. The UC works for YOU. How to get in touch: talk to the DC...if you have a UC assigned, DC can set up the contact. But if the UC hasn't reached out to you already, don't waste your time because he/she is deadwood. Ask the DC for another UC. Are they more interested in troops than packs? They shouldn't. But some stay close to their roots and comfort zone, depending on their past experience. Your observations about the absent UC corps are common every where. Past threads here have discussed various ways to fix it, or disband the UC business entirely.

It would be discourteous to decline it. Accept it with thanks. Later, as mentioned by Scouter99, don't wear it.

Well said.

FScouter, National sets the tone, for good or ill. Units are eventually a reflection of the tone National sets. The BSA was able to survive the abysmal Improved Scout Program of the '70s (courtesy of National) by having numerous old time scouters at the unit level, who knew what real scouting was. They carried the torch. The ISP stunk so bad, GBB was called out of the bullpen to revive scouting, including rewriting the handbook (circa 1980). Sadly, most of those dedicated folks have gone on to their reward. The number of BP/GBB oriented folks at the unit level is no where near the levels of the '70s. So the tide of indoor/management 101/metric-driven/homework-is-better-than-being-outdoors scouting from National has gained considerable traction throughout the BSA. From my limited perspective, National's "product" these days is working as well as New Coke. Your continued advocacy of National is admirable.

When the BSA moved away from outdoor adventure in the early '70s, that began the shift. Unit level scouting--pack, troop, crew, ship--is an afterthought. Numbers--Eagles, dollars, JTE, popcorn sales, FOS, MBs earned during day-long universities--are more important to National. True scouting takes place in the outdoors. Not the board room, or auditorium. BP's vision is long gone. In the same manner, Green Bar Bill's status at National (persona non grata) is telling as well about National's priorities.

So why not the non-HA big trips? If the boys can plan it, fund it, execute it, why not? I don't agree with how some of the mega troops do things where the parents run and fund everything like a mini army. But those of us who raise our own money and do our own planning, why not do a few big trips every year or so? Dr. Strangelove should have followed General Ripper's example: distilled water, or rain water, and pure grain alcohol.

Basement, I'm thinking back to my trek as a scout at Philmont in the '70s, and it was the SM who made the sales pitch to the scouts. It worked. We senior scouts were on board from day 1. That trek ranks as one of the most memorable things I've done in life. I hope to go back some day. You raise a good point--money. I mowed a lot of lawns to raise the cash and buy a decent pack. We were in a nearby state, so we drove...I squeezed in the back seat of a Jeep C-5, no seat belt, rag top, gear strapped to the spare tire and jerry cans, like the Joad family...others jammed into a Pinto...we stayed in an old dorm on Kirtland AFB for free. Aside from a big feed a great Mexican restaurant in Albuquerque, and a trip to the movies (the first Star Wars!), the trip was no-frills. As for the other examples you shared, those troops operate at a level I've never experienced. Aside from Philmont, my other outdoor adventures were all local, depending on where dad was stationed (Panama, AZ, AK)...there was plenty of adventure in each of those locations without a big trip far away. Gas and food for the trail. And some spending money for a junk food blast when we finished.

I agree with Basement, way too many adults in the equation. It is up to the patrol leader to work out the logistics: figuring cost, getting to the store, navigating the aisles, storing it, getting it to the parking lot, loading it on the truck.... It's his leadership opportunity. So the patrol screws it up? That's okay. Amazing how quickly the scouts troubleshoot and fix any food issue. An invaluable lesson.

True...........................

Very true. Once the admin/legal/insurance issues are ironed out, I think it's important to get scouts--especially this one--to camp, regardless of his involvement the rest of the year. While we don't have all the details in this case, in my experience, the semi-involved scout often has family issues...and scouting is the best and most positive thing in their life. Even if they show up once in awhile, they need scouting. Just a hunch.

ThomasJefferson, your comments are spot on. I think the BSA would begin a new, healthy chapter if it went coed. And as the father of daughters who love the outdoors, I can assert that outdoor adventure need not be dumbed down. Girls that would join a coed BSA want those outdoor challenges. I respect the fact that some do not want a coed BSA, but I find it unhelpful to resort to the "shy boy/prissy girl" stereotypes as a plank in the anti-coed argument. That's a brush that paints way too wide. Girls want to experience what the BSA has to offer. And if a young man is shy, he isn't going to learn a darn thing about the female gender by being secluded. Now the notion that females would take over the BSA, that's an interesting concept. It just might happen. That's not a BSA issue, that is Life in This World issue, since about the late sixties. Men--ones who are good citizens in their community, are faithful to their families, work for a living--are far and few between these days. Lots of 20, 30, 40 year old "guys" in the world, who show no responsibility, and are committed solely to their own amusement and comfort. So yes, we see lots of women raising kids on their own, and running scout units and just about everything else. Sadly, I don't see a change in that in the future. But that's a whole different topic.

I just checked the "auction site" for my first, and now defunct, council, Canal Zone, with closed in '87. You can get the common council patch for about 24 bucks. The final commemorative issue is 35 bucks. On the other hand, the old red/white can be had for 69 bucks. Not trying to sell anything, just an FYI. Seems to me, council patches have never had the collectability of OA stuff. I concur with the others--my patches mean more sentimentally than financially. But I have to admit, when I see what some of my patches from Alaska ('70s era) are going for, it's hard to believe!

Skeptic, thanks for the update! Sounds like many of the camporees I've attended, as a scout and a scouter...particularly the cow pies. If they were dried through, they made good fuel for the fire. Map/compass: the retesting issue aside, we can still practice at meetings and troop campouts...the skill and pride will click for many, with repetition and competition. Thanks for your leadership--unit level scouters are the foundation of the BSA.

If dues are paid, let him attend. The camp experience, as well the spirit of camaraderie, may motivate him to be a fully involved Boy Scout, or adult scouter. You just never know.

..."no one goes home after a campout until every piece of patrol gear passes inspection...." Keeping mom and dad waiting impatiently in the parking lot while scouts fumble around with their filthy gear...scouts rewashing dirty dishes in the parking lot, shaking out and refolding tents...yep, tough but memory making lessons on "clean as you go" and "do it right the first time" and "take care of your stuff." Guarantee, you only need to do this once (or twice) before the scouts get the message!

Nike, congrats on your new assignment--can you say what part of the world you're heading to? Can't speak to first hand experience with DS troops, but I can offer up some thoughts on currently belonging to a rural district that is a long ways away from the council (or anywhere, for that matter), I think there are parallels. Pros: strong sense of belonging and cooperation...cranks and nay sayers are minimal...less deadwood at the adult level (professional coffee drinkers/meeting attenders/meddlers)...greater flexibility in programming...less "oversight" by council...scouters wear several hats and gain greater experience.... Cons: tail end of the council's fiscal chain...cranks/naysayers, though fewer in number, are a greater irritant and require more immediate action than in a big scouting community where their baloney has less negative impact... Having experienced both ends of the spectrum, I prefer to be in the far away district. When we make the trek to council training and other events, we're greeted as pioneers from the hinterlands, "Wow, you guys are from X district, welcome!" As a career military guy, I've known many folks that served in DS units, and they uniformly loved the experience, because it was challenging and in a unique part of the world, which only added to the list of things they blended into the program and added to the overall scouting experience. I see it as a return to scouting of yesteryear, when the pack/unit/ship/post was the primary focus of scouting. Best wishes and safe travels, please keep us posted!

I'm very sorry...though I never met John in person, I've always had the utmost respect for him. I enjoyed his wisdom, humor and vast experience. My deepest condolences to the Arno Family, and friends.

I don't fret about young Eagles. Most with "grow into" the rank.

Simply do away with the loops/tabs/epaulettes entirely. We've got position patches.

I agree, it's probably a small percent of the total scouter/Eagle scout population. But when there are shenanigans in that demographic, it's obvious and runs counter to the BSA's image. When I was a scout, I recall a fellow Eagle, an adult, who owned a mudwrestling bar in our town. He was active as a youth, but not as an adult. Talking with him one day (he stopped by the summer camp to visit old friends), he said he prided himself on having the best mud for wrestling...no sticks or rocks. And yes, there was an issue with some bounced checks that resulted in his temporary stay in the city jail, but it was really a misunderstanding and he was sure it would be cleared up. If there is anything positive in all this, I think many scouts know, instinctively, that if their scouters misbehave, it's not something to be proud of. Yes, there will always be a few scouts that will think "cool!" But we don't give the youth enough credit for having a moral compass. And given the opportunity to express their thoughts, I think they are usually correct, and quite perceptive. I also recall (in the '70s) a SM and ASM who regularly brought beer on campouts. One ASM brought his girl friend on a campout; she had a penchant for short skirts, as I recall. Yes, the scouts in all five patrols chatted about this. But we knew the leaders shouldn't be doing that. No one had to tell us that. Eagles run the gamut. Earning the rank is not a conferment of knighthood, nor sainthood, nor is it a coronation. Eagles can stray, and some just bluffed their way thru the program to get the rank. But the vast majority try to do the right thing. That much is true.

ScoutDaddy, Centennial patch? Wow, I'd like to amend my response thusly: cancelling a SMC/BOR because of a centennial patch is pure chicken****. The leader in question: I think some adult scouters have a leather-bound insignia guide, gilt edge, that they treat like holy writ. Ugh. I think your perspective and approach are on the money. Best wishes to you and your son on the scouting trail.

It depends...lots of variables not mentioned in your post. Key question: Which patch? First Class rank? PL/SPL? Or camporee? If it was a rank or position patch, well, maybe the SM was trying to get a message across. If it's been two years, my hunch is this is not the first time the SM has mentioned this to your son. A Star candidate isn't going to get the same slack as a Tenderfoot pursuing Second Class.

CC!, LOL, that is certainly true!

Eagle92, well done, I wish I could attend your class.... Two things kept me involved in the troop after I made Eagle: - Adventure...my troop in AZ went to Philmont...when we moved, my troop in AK would have high adventure outings for senior scouts only. Very challenging stuff and excellent training beforehand. - Being treated like an adult/SM in training...as an SPL, I ran the meetings, came up with the yearly calendar and set monthly themes with the PLs. I attended all troop committee meetings, district roundtables and a few adult scouter training courses, as a 16 year old. I was surprised and happy that folks welcomed me to these venues, and I learned a heck of alot about scouting, but also how to conduct myself in these settings.