desertrat77

BadenP is right. The value just isn't there for popcorn. To borrow a line, popcorn costs 5 dollars a silo. Selling little bags or bins for 10 dollars and upward just doesn't resonate with many folks.

Absolutely wear it!

Though it's been awhile since I was a scout, I can say for certain that the Sustainability MB would immediately take the blue ribbon for The Most Boring MB of All Time. And that's saying something, given some of the snoozer MBs that already exist. If one is excessively worried that scouts may not understand the importance of Sustainability, then tweak the Environmental Science MB a bit and that should more than suffice. It's been more than 3 decades, but I recall sustainability-like discussions (though we didn't use the word sustainability) during my En. Sci. MB journey. (This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Second Class beat me to it..... Find SMs you respect, and build bonds. Get together outside of formal scouting events. Leisurely breakfast at local diner on a Saturday morning, gleaning wisdom from seasoned scouters, will surpass anything you'll get in a classroom. Bonus: you won't be subjected to powerpoint, or have to sing The Grand Old Duke of York. Unless you want to.

BadenP, I concur!

What Twocubdad said. SM pow-wow: "Hey you two, here are specific examples of how your behavior is impacting the troop. I expect better. I'm leaving...you two stay behind and figure it out."

I saw a similar ceremony in my last council, at a district awards event. Scouters that normally wouldn't say a word were joyously transformed in critters again ("will all WBers present please come forward!"), singing and happy and jolly as can be. Multiple speeches on the wonderment of WB, etc. The guy getting his beads had a special WB song book tied to his belt, and there were a few other props that had Special Meaning. Audience reaction was subdued but there was a definite vibe of "what the.....?" Oh yes, two young folks were presented their Silver Awards that night as well. I've seen bus tickets given out with more flair. "Yeah, here you go guys, good luck." I felt bad for them.

Irsap, I like your proposed list of Eagle required. Outdoor challenges are more interesting, and challenging, than the homework/roadblock/obstacle MBs that are on the list now. Your list would also bolster the public's image of Eagle, as someone who is proficient in the outdoors. NJ, I concur with your "good idea" theory...lots of stuff gets approved because no one wants to be the guy who speaks up and says "we don't need do that." Don't make waves, be a team player, etc. And once the good idea gets approved, it usually lasts a lifetime. Though I firmly believe those three citizenship MBs should be combined into one, I doubt there is a BSA staffer anywhere that would take on that project.

Irsap, I like your proposed list of Eagle required. Outdoor challenges are more interesting, and challenging, than the homework/roadblock/obstacle MBs that are on the list now. Your list would also bolster the public's image of Eagle, as someone who is proficient in the outdoors. NJ, I concur with your "good idea" theory...lots of stuff gets approved because no one wants to be the guy who speaks up and says "we don't need do that." Don't make waves, be a team player, etc. And once the good idea gets approved, it usually lasts a lifetime. Though I firmly believe those three citizenship MBs should be combined into one, I doubt there is a BSA staffer anywhere that would take on that project.

LOL, FScouter, you crack me up.... The BSA has had Webs attending camporees for decades. The young guys participate in what they can, observe the stuff they can't, and otherwise get a taste of what the next level of scouting is like. If your experience shows that camporee events are dumbed down for the Webs, and it's all doom and gloom, that's a local problem, specificially one of weak leadership.

Joe Bob, excellent question...though I've been tempted a few times to actually tie poncho and liner together, I've never actually done it. I imagine it would be a warm combo. Concur, those liners are doggone slippery!

Poncho liners rock!

I concur, the dude is burned out. I've been there myself, at work and scouting. Also concur, the on-the-spot scouting homilies about the scout law won't help. In fact, they will back fire. A open mind and ear, over a cup of coffee, is the first step. No judgment, just listening. If he can be convinced to take a hiatus, good.

SP, no offense partner, but if Joe Bob's ITOLS experience seems alright by you, then low expectations for BSA training abound....(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Thanks JMHawkins, good stuff.

Skeptic, well said....

Grapes of Wrath To Kill a Mockingbird and from a different country: The Gulag Archipelago(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

OGE, if the training were interesting, challenging, outdoors, and fun, folks would gladly put in the extra time. But the standard BSA training format--indoors, emphasis on bureaucracy, one-way communication, sedentary, profoundly uninteresting--most folks don't want that, be it a weekend, a day, or an hour. That's the rub--many adults scouters in positions of influence love those long weekends in the conference room. I think alot of new scouters are disappointed to discover that there isn't alot of outdoors in these training classes.

JMHawkins, the SM mentorship proposal is sublime...if you have a moment in the future, I'd value your thoughts on how you think it should look.

I too love the outdoor adventure emphasis...it's the BSA's best program, and often relegated to the back shelf. Why? Others have already mentioned it--too many indoor-oriented adults. Conference room or campfire? Seems to me many scouters are more comfortable with the former. There was a point in BSA history when the opposite was true.

I'm not a jambo guy--never been to one, and probably won't. Seems there are three types of folks: those that would rather go to jambo than Philmont, those that would rather go to Philmont than jambo, and those who like both. Plus, I don't like standing in line, which makes the decision easy for me.

I've been in four councils in five years (military guy)...the common denominator I've seen is lack of respect towards the trainees. The old timers love rambling on and on, the tedious syllabi, establishing the pecking order over and over (I'm Mr./Ms. Super Experienced, and you're not), your time is my time and I've got all the time in the world, and worst of all: the toxic spirit of "Trainee, your previous experience as a parent, scout, crafstman, professional, college grad means nothing...I, Mr./Ms. Multiple Knot and WB Bead Wearer, have all the answers." Thankfully, it's not like that everywhere. I went to some training in my newest council that was really spot on on. But the Good Olde Boys Who Have Nothing But Time On Their Hands still abound. Suggestions: - Cut the training time down to the bare minimum. Folks are busy. - Cut out the Admiring of BSA Minutia stuff. Give folks what they need, the nuts and bolts. - Treat trainees with respect...they may be new to the BSA, but they aren't new to life. Condescending attitudes and the very appearance of us/them will turn folks off. - Get some new blood in the training cadre. Old timers are good but folks will sit up and listen when an articulate, knowledgeable young person speaks. Easier said than done? Yep. Seems to me that training cadres are loathe to include new people, like young people, Eagle Scouts ("smarty pants know it alls!") and non-WBers/SBers/etc. Training is often like a private club, created for it's own amusement, and full of itself because they dispense their version of BSA to newcomers. But if the newcomers think it's a bunch of crap, it doesn't matter what the trainers think. Word gets out and people stay away in droves.

After sleeping on it..... "Fun" and personal gratification are more important than doing the right thing. Being a responsible adult, at times, is not the least bit fun. One forgoes luxuries and indulgences for the greater good, like keeping family finances in/near the black, and meeting obligations at work, school, church, scouting. The pay off is in the long term, securing the reputation a dependable parent, leader, etc. CCbytrickery--thoughts and prayers go out for your husband.

Basement, I don't get it either. Too many folks raised with no pride, no character. And yet they'll sleep like babies. At base I was stationed at a few years ago, the first sergeants' council collected money to buy thanksgiving baskets for needy Airmen and their families...turkey, taters, can of cranberry and the like. The word goes out--quietly identify those in need, have them stop by the chapel annex on such/such day to pick the basket. I'm standing in the parking lot that day, and a tech sergeant jumps out of a brand new Escalade, and walks smartly into the chapel annex to get her thanksgiving basket. Values are all out of whack. PS Forgot the facebook follies! Same as you mentioned, Basement...some military folks posting stuff on FB that destroys their credibility. And career. What could they possibly gain? But folks do it anyway, even though they've been briefed on the consequences.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

Bacon...nature's most perfect food. Can't imagine camping without bacon. But there is no projected shortage of Spam, as far as I know.