dan

So, if the scouts said I really want to be PL and I want you to be my Asst. thats okay? It the same thing, just said differently. I like people to be straight forward with we and not beat around the bush, which is what this scout did. EagleinKY Everyone makes mistakes, do not hold the past against him, give him a chance with allot of coaching. It seems like part of the problem may be the way the patrols where split up.

Dude Have you read this? http://www.scouter.com/features/0290.asp Have you read Baden Powell: The Two Lives of a Hero by William Hillcourt? You can purchase the book here. http://www.scouter.com/catalog/store/templates/product/generic.asp?pf_id=1515 I would suggest you send an email to Scouter Terry, and ask him if he knows about any books about Green Bar Bill.

SMRon Your first post has the answer to this situation. Now at least two other ASM's and 5 boys are talking about leaving this would be at least 1/4th of our Scouts. This would send a message to the CO and COR. And possibly change the situation, or give birth to another scouting unit. What is the COR? Church, Government or what?

We do not know that he told other members he would make them the APL if they voted for him. I took Proud Eagles post to mean that he would give them another position. I know I could be wrong with this assumption, but that is all I have to work with. The scout is lining up his team. It just seems to me that we would want the scouts to be proactive. He is not buying votes, he is just saying if I become the PL you will be my APL. No threat, no bribe, sounds like good politics to me. Is he promising the APL position to more than one scout? EagleInKY Are you separating the other issues with this scout from this one?

Whats wrong with campaigning? Whats wrong with picking a APL?

You can get by with cheap bags or old bags. My sons and I first year in Boy Scouts we used old bags that we have had for about 20 years. They where rated at 40 degrees 20 years ago. I would take 2 bags and put one into the other, I could stay warm to about 20 degrees this way. Bought my son a Coleman mummy 0 degree bag at Wally World for about 40 bucks, he loves it and says he stays warm in it, he has used it in 15 degree weather. Last year we went on a week long canoing trip, I found Lafuma extreme bags, that weigh less than a pound. Rated for 23 degrees. Mummy style on the top, rectangular on the bottom. Used it last weekend in 35 degree weather I did not stay warm. We will be using these bags this summer at Double H. after last weekend I will be purchasing fleece liners for them, for the trip to Double H.

I purchased a Keltey Red Cloud 5400 4 months ago. So far so good Have used it 4 times. With the new fabrics there is not much difference in coolness between internal and externals. Internals are just a little cooler. The big plus with externals is that you can strap stuff on the frame itself, making more room. When you say you do not want little compartments, make sure you have a minimum of 3 pockets on the outside of the pack to put thing that you need to get to on the trail first aid kit and so on. The biggest thing is to make sure the pack fits, go to a good store and they will measure you torso, and they can tell you what size pack you need. I am 6'4" and the 5400 just fits my torso. It is just a matter of perfence for internal or external, I did not like how the externals fit me. Some internals are for skiing and mountain climbing, but not all. Now IMHO at 6000 cubic backpack is to big for anyone! If you go to www.backpacking.com they have instructions on how to measure your torso. Go to www.campmor.com and look at the backpacks they have there, and you can see the difference between skiing and normal backpacks, I got mime there for 80 bucks, is was a last year model.

Mrs.Smith Have you noticed how everyone of them have ignored the question about scouts reading this forum? Ask Hops Scout why he does not post here anymore.

Mrs. Smith I agree! I have brought this issue up before, and most poster here seem to think he is an all right guy! Figure that one out! He has talked about men and sheep, slamming entire states! And that is just the tip of the iceberg. I really wonder what the youth think when they read his posts. Have emailed the moderator and was ignored! He has been banned from here before, and banned from another scouting forum also. For those of you who agree that he should be here, do you not think any youths read this forum? Mister Smith

If I take a class that my employers has paid for, I need to make sure that I take the time to not lose the skills. The analogy is flawed. evmori BW has NEVER said to give a scout a leadership position because he needs it. Where did you ever come up with this one? Or are you just throwing out a little chum? I am pretty sure BW would say, that it was perfectly fine for a scout to go up to a newly elected SPL and say I really want/need this position so can you consider me for it? But I am totally lost on this thread. It is up to the SPL and the scout if a scout gets the position for more than one term, so what in the heck are you people talking about?

My guess is we have about 15 different states posting here. This is not an official site, just people on here like to share scouting stories and ideas, or they just like to whine about the BSA.

No, it would still be dorkie!

My bad means, I am sorry sir I made a mistake. I was incorrect when I said it was a district JLTC. I should have said it is a Council JLTC.

FScouter You where right, "they" will just not admit it.

First and most important Boy Ran 2nd A large adult staff that is ready to sit around for a week and not do much, after the setup is done. This course has a Course advisor, 2 Course directors, 2 cooks, 2 QM, 3 SM, 3 ASM, a Nurse, and 2 and 3 others that are in and out, The cooks cook for the Advisors, QM, Directors, etc. and have extra food for the adult or scout staff if a patrol destroys a meal. The scout participants rarely see anyone but the leaders within the troop they are with that week, the advisors and directors and QM, and cooks, have a area setup for them where they tent and spend the week. The syllabus is followed, with a few little tweaks. During the pre meetings we have 4 adults cooks that prepares all meals for the staff. All the scouts have to do is run the meetings. The Scout staff is treated like adults, meaning that it probably looks more like an adult meeting than a youth, just a lot more fun. During the course the 3 troops hardly every see each other, we have North, West, and East Troops. Spread over about 50 acres at a scout camp. During the weeklong course the scout leaders and ASM and SM eat with different patrols within the troop (some scouts have never cooked over an open fire before, so it can be quite a meal). On the night of day 5 all patrols go to an outpost camp, that night the adult leaders prepare a feast for all of the scout leaders, they help if they want or they sit around and take it easy. It is usually Ribeye Steaks at least 2 for each scout, mushrooms, grilled onions, baked potatoes, and baked beans, with a dessert (did I mention that one of the adult cooks use to run a bakery?) that night is usually a late night for the scout leaders, they get together for a little campfire. The scout leaders pick from the participants who should be invited back next year to serve on staff. Almost every participant wants to come back on staff, as a scout participant said last year after the course, Thunderbird rocks Dude! What this is coming down to is the scout leaders are treated like adults, and they come through every year! There are issues that come up, but they are worked through usually by the scout leaders, but the adult leaders are right there for whatever is needed. Now for a little story about last year during one of the pre meetings, The Wood Badge staff was meeting at the same camp that we where. Somehow it was decided that the Wood Badge staff where going to give the Scouts a few of the presentations from Wood Badge. One thing that we do in the pre meetings is the scouts present the presentations to the troop, the troop than gives the scout suggestion on how to improve the presentation, it could be as simple as speak up or you missed a very important part of the information. The 3 SPLs and 3 ASPLs decided (I think Rover Scout had something to do with this, he is a poster that has posted here before) that they would give the Wood Badge presenter a little constructive criticism. You should have seen the look on the Wood Badger faces while they where getting information on how to improve their presentation from 15 and 16 year olds! A requirement for the course is the scout participants have to be at least 1st Class and have attended a weeklong campout. The participants should be your leaders of the future for your troop, send us your best and JLTC will help them take the next step in leadership. Every year we have a least 1 scout per troop that is homesick, seems that these are the SM or ASM sons that have never gone camping without their dads along. LPC Thumber this course was started by the current advisor in about 1985, it has grown into this course, just by word of mouth from the scouts that attend. Make it fun, treat the scouts like it is their program, and let them run it. Not sure what will happen next year with JLTC 21st century, but I am sure this is not the first time the training has changed since 1985! Eamonn Dude (that was said with a smile on my face and inflection of respect in my voice) My Bad this is a Council JLTC.

dozer we do have one on here!

Eamonn Thanks for sending those documents to me. They where a real eye opener! Yes, I promise I will not let anyone else see them! Should I have sent this via private message?

When I read SPLT15 post I had another take on it, than the other posters. When he wrote that this scout is a nuisance, I took it to mean that he is pushing for advancements, is that what you mean by a nuisance? If it is, this is a good thing, do not hold a scout back because he wants to advance that will only unmotivate him. For the other issue, we have discussed this with SPLT15 before. I do not believe that Scouts should not be on the BOR for the same reason that SM and ASM should not be.

Gee who would ever use the term Dude? Last weekend we had 3 15 years old, a 16 year old, a 17 year old, and 2 23 year olds at the house. We had a discussion about what dude meant. It has many meanings depending on how it was said, inflection of voice means alot. It could mean, you rock, that was not very bright, I concur, that was lame, I beg your pardon, etc... In this little part of the country, dude could be male of female.

As leaders we leave a piece of ourself with each scout we work with.

"I would never make fun of scout volunteers. I am afraid of the implant they put into you at the course. I see adults dress alike, join a group of like minded people, sing funny songs, have special bonding experiences, spend time with special teachings, put beads around their necks, think they are enlightened and tell me I dont get it and I should join them before they are willing to count my opinion. I think you guys are having flashbacks!" you only make fun of them sometimes? "I've been involved with so much TQM and TQL stuff that has done nothing except get in the way of generating a good product. Ive had my share of that stuff with the same results. Some guy gets up there with a lot of useless B school buzz words." Golly gee I guess when we implemented a TQM process and the waste number went from 10 percent a month to under 5 it was a waste of the company money. We paid for the course with savings within 6 months. Probably has something to do with the effort that someone puts into it. Yes, I know it easier to make something fail than it is to make something work.

and it is much easier to do that if the parents and other friends of the troop have a CR to deal with who is not on a power trip. or leaders on a power trip.

The paperwork from Double H says to bring heavy duty needle and thread and duct tape. What else could you possbily need, you can fix anything with duct tape. The idea to bring extra buckles for a backpack does sound like a good idea.

I was in a Aviation Explorer Posts, back in the 70s. We owned are own airplane and flew it. Did a little searching on the web, and it looks like we could not do that today. We use to charter a plane and fly to campouts, looks like they could not do that either. Out of the 12 members only one got his pilot license. It was not me Overtrained Do you know about when the rules where put in that stopped the actual flying?

Trail Pounder The God and Church program is for 6th through 8th graders. Are the Sea Scouts that young? When you say you are going to have a weekday retreat, do you mean throughout the summer? The pastor of the Lutheran Church, were the troop meets, offered to be the consoler for other faiths. You may want to ask your minister if he would be willing to do that? If one of the scouts want to earn the award for his faith. The program has a optional side where a parent can be a mentor, I would suggest if possible to have the parent be a mentor, I enjoyed it along with the other 5 parents.