Crew21_Adv

VinceC and fellow Scouters, Good question! Just a comparison though. BSA has merit badges for Archery, Rifle Shooting and Shotgun Shooting. They have specific dangers, but applied and conducted safely. So why not Ax Throwing events, if it can be done safely? Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Eagle1982, Greetings! My troop quite often uses email communications. Our SPL and the PLs are roughly about 50/50 getting the correct word out to the families. If it is about food and video games, they are exactly detailed and accurate. If it is about the monthly program calendar, troop events, or advancement, their patrol (or parents) may not get the word at all. They are a good bunch of boys, but thank goodness they arent brain surgeons or rocket scientist. The adult leadership normally distributes all notices to the families. But similar to the parents, we work and are busy too. Not everyone can make Troop Committee meetings, and then at our PLC usually the PL's (of which a few are home doing homework or at sports practice) are outnumbered by the ASMs (with laptops, cell phones, PDA, and Blackberries doing our regular work at a different worksite "the PLC meeting"). Quite often during the PLC, the SM/ASMs regain the attention of the Scouts and state You should be writing this down, right now. And, ____ Patrol Leader, you need to tell your Patrol about this before the _______ Got it? So sometimes our SM, ASM are the best informed about most Troop happenings. Still we are just as busy as everyone else. Also, weather changes, transportation changes, things get canceled or turned on last minute, so our program is "Semper Gumby" or an absolute rigid flexibility. But bottom line, we believe it should be our Scouts, and their youth leadership that should be doing the majority of the communications, and not held to the responsibility of the adults to do 40-50 hours at work and 40-50 hours preparing for Scouts. So when we do email communications with our calendar updates, we usually caveat something similar to this. If you do not know what is happening, ask your Scout. If your Scout does not know what is happening, have him ask his Patrol Leader. If his Patrol Leader does not know what is happening, have your Scout ask the Senior Patrol Leader and ask the PL to do the same. If our Senior Patrol Leader does not know what is happening, we are in trouble. Now for our calendar for the next month...... Some parents view over the emails. Some parents delete it right away. Some parents read it in detail. At least the SM/ASM's attempted to keep the families informed, and we placed the responsibility on their Scout and Patrol if the latest word becomes obsolete. (I wont tell you how many times the SPL doesnt have a clue about what is happening, even though we tell him to write it down during the PLC.) My Troop emails from a few various leaders about 2-3 times a week. Lead time varies. For the monthly items, it is immediately after PLC. But things change, weather, permits, what adults are available, so we attempt 1-2 days out for final notices. We don't expect replies. Replies would be great, but not expected. Comparing our email communications to what you said. My troop's email communication seems to work fairly well. It is not our Troop Secretary that is solely responsible, but similar to our forum or a newsgroup. Whomever is sending, attempts to answer, who, what, when, where, how much, permission slips, and other predicted questions. We have on rare occasion had a dissatisfied parent, when communications break down (or just that our SM/ASM are extremely busy with the paid profession) And we ask them, if they (the parents) asked their Scout what was happening. The few minor problems are quickly diffused, they are disappointed at missing an event, but realize they (the Scout and family) are responsible for communicating just as well. I don't have the "golden egg" on what it takes to communicate well. But hopefully my story may assist you and your troop in spreading the word via email. Good Luck! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, Greetings! After my initial response. I suddenly realized this is a revived posting from 2004. But here is a recent comment from the Insignia Guide and Scoutstuff.org regarding Venturing and the campaign hat. I had to look at this a little bit. The minor controversy over Venturers wearing the campaign hat. I have swapped out the pin device on my campaign hat a few times, as I've attended ceremonies in my Scout uniform and other times in my Venturing uniform. As part of the First Class Emphasis, the large standard metal pin, No. �00017, has been reinstated as an option to the cloth First Class rank badge. The large pin also may be worn only by boys on the front of the campaign hat, No. �501, and the expedition hat, No. �637. Adults may wear the adult universal hat pin, No. �50150, on the campaign hat and the expedition hat. No other pins may be worn on official headgear of the BSA. Proudly display your Venturing membership with the handsome solid pewter hat pin. The Venturing logo is cast in pewter, featuring a brushed finish and double clutch-back closure. This pin can be worn on the Boy Scout campaign hat or expedition hat. 7/8" square. Packaged in a Scoutstuff clamshell. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

printman31, Greetings! Are you asking for advice? If you should remove your sons from Scouting completely? My response is.... Totally removing youth from Scouting is an option, but I would make it the absolutely last and final option. What else would they do? Play youth sports where you may encounter sports parents which "Butt heads". Some other alternatives are community based recreational programs. Maybe less butting of heads, but you are paying big bucks to a community program to hire one minimum wage 19 y/o physical fitness college major to watch 50-60 other peoples kids. A young college student may never know or care what your son's names are. Maybe an afterschool educational homework program. Less youth recreational interaction and a better student to teacher ratio. There are other options besides Scouting, but I believe Scouting is the best program out there. Possibly not the immediate Cub Scout Pack that you and your sons are in. But you stated there are other Packs in your community. A common response you may receive, will be... Have you and the other Den Leaders, and your Pack Committee attended Cub Scout Specifics training? Let me state it this way, my district just completed training this past weekend. As we moved thru NLE and the newest Cub Scout Specifics, we spoke and discussed Communications. Not all boys will instantly get along, or work together smoothly. Most all Scouts do. But not all of them. Communications is a obstacle for everyone to overcome. It sounds like your burn out, is caused by a lack of communicating common goals. Making it more difficult, parents (if they are Den Leaders, Committee Members, or Cubmaster) will need to come together for similar goals. The boys will probably get along better than their parents. Ideally having the same goal and vision, (not exactly quoted) by enabling their sons to make good moral decisions throughout a lifetime by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. The parents, Committee Members, Den Leaders and Cubmaster will be able to communicate better and continue to work towards a common goal. I would agree with your initial impression. Scouting would be a good thing for your sons. But if the Pack leadership and Pack committee cannot communicate, or will not attend training; they may never understand or agree on a common goal. Unfortunately, it may be time to look at another Pack. Personally, My Pack, Troop and Crew have made many, many Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Venturers and parents happy. But we have not made everyone happy. Well I'd say our success rate is 99 percent (maybe 98), in satisfying the needs of the youth in our community. The high success rate is attributed to training, similar goals and communications. If we did not communicate, our units would never have lasted. Not all Packs (or Troops, or Crews) are the same. There is a common baseline of safety, and a common baseline of handbooks, and program material. But there is a fairly wide avenue to get to the same destination. I would think it is far to early for you to generalize all Cub Scout Packs, by saying you've heard about others. So... Finally... I would recommend enrolling in the next NLE and Specifics. Ask your fellow Den Leaders and Pack Committee if they would like to attend with you. Ask them if they are attending Roundtable. Ask if the Pack and a newsletter, webpage, blog or Pack Secretary for distributing communications. If they refuse to go to training, or will not communicate. Then yes, seek out another Pack where the Scouts appear happy and they are more willing to communicate towards a common goal. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

SctDad, Here are a few things to consider. There are many pitfalls. Two specific pitfalls to be warned about. One being the amount of time to move around NSJ. The next is that day visitors may view exhibits, but are not suppose to be allowed into participant events. The sheer volume of people, NSJ attendees and guest makes moving around NSJ very, very slow (a bus ride around the entire campus was about three hours for maybe a 25 mile trip). Regarding the time it takes to move around NSJ. Some units attending NSJ have some logistic support (someone family or Scouter in the nearby area to bring purchase goods incase they have forgotten anything) My NSJ Scoutmaster lived an hour away, and our NSJ Scoutmasters wife made two trips bringing specific goods (batteries, soap, etc). I myself had a fellow Scouter and his Eagle Scout son that were on vacation in DC during the 2005 NSJ. On the days they arrived, it took about two-three hours from the Fort A P Hill gate to our campsite. About an hour and half to get to the parking, about an hour and half on the bus to move just a quarter of the way around the campus. Also, theoretically, Day Visitors can go thru exhibits to view, but were not suppose to participate in activities (as you and emb021 have stated). Too many times there were hundreds of visitors in lines with the hundreds of participants, and were regularly allowed to participate in activities. The visitors drove up just for the day, the participants paid a large council and national fee to be at NSJ for the entire camp. Sorry if this sounds blunt, but it is unfair to the Scout and families for a paid participant to wait hours and maybe not have an opportunity to participate. NSJ Scoutmasters would see Subcamps release their Scouts at 0900, by the time participants arrived at the Midway area (maybe an hour later) there were thousands of visitors already in the activity and exhibit lines. Some events the participants never actually got to participate in, because of the hundreds of visitors in the queue. So if you desire to attend with Cubs or family members which are Cub Scout age. Be prepared for long, long, long (and hot) waits, and if the event staff abides by the participant only policy, there may be limited events the visitor can take part in during their visit. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

I don't know anyone who would be brave enough to wear a Bobwhite patrol patch... Just joking.. Tami, Greetings! Our fellow Wood Badger and forum members have stated it correctly, and if you look in the Uniform Insignia Guide, that is pretty much what it states. Patrol Patches are for the youth Scouts, and sometimes Webelos. Like Neil had stated, before 2000, a learner had to bring two learner shirts with Troop 1 numeral(Red and White) and the patrol emblem sewed on to their Wood Badge course. Now, they are issued and still worn with nostalgia in mind. Now, the unofficial rule, some brave Bob Whites may still sew and wear their patrol patch on the right sleeve, below the U.S. Flag, but this is not in keeping with the Ingsignia Guide and Uniform Police. Worst off, some youth may become confused why adults are not held to strict uniform standards and lapsing in setting the example. But hey, I ocassionally tell Scouts (and mainly their parents that sewed the patch there) that they really cannot wear a camporee patch above their right pocket (where the World or National Jamboree patch is placed). Not one of them have ever removed the temporary patch yet. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Kittle and Fellow Scouters, I have heard little about Fast Tracks. Here, I'm offering my own thoughts from the little I've heard. But I believe as you ask this question, everyone should be aware, Fast Tracks is currently a national BSA test bed or pilot program within the Cub Scouts program. Like all other Scouting programs, some have been test bed for some time, before a nation wide roll out (like the Cub Scout Soccer program). Instead of using all the Packs within one Council, Fast Tracks is being offered to selected and eligible Packs throughout the BSA. So, not all Packs have been offered Fast Tracks, and it may be another year before the entire program has been debuted. So, some Cub Scouters on this forum may express interest without understanding it is a limited pilot program. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, My Troop recognizes the Scouts the Trained patch at the end of TLT. For the Crew, we recognize the Venturers with the Trained patch at the end of Crew Officers Brief and Crew Officers Orienation. Regarding the Den Chief. In previous editions of the Den Chief Handbook, didn't the Den Chief handbook (before the Den Chief online training was announced) state, that the Den Chief may be trained by the Cubmaster, the Scoutmaster or attend Den Chief Training. I do not have my DC handbook with me right now. But I would still hold that to be a true statement, if it is the current handbook. But a difficult debate I've seen and discussed before is.... What if a Troop (or Crew) holds semi annual SPL and PL elections, and the leadership PORs change dramitically every six months. Similar to trained DL or trained Committee Members coming over to the Troop. Certainly they need to attend training for their newest position. But do the need to remove and re-sew, and remove and re-sew, and remove and re-sew, etc, etc, etc the Trained patch every few months? Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

ScubaDiver, Great! I imagine a few Scouters have used the Volcano or Volcano 2. But maybe not that many on this forum. A few Scouters I know always joke, its all about the gadgets. My wife and I have had a few fellow Scouters drool over one of our tents and some of our camping gear. But then we go to other camporees and see some of the other newest gear some fellow Scouters are carrying. (Then add it to our Christmas "Camping equipment" wish list) Sometimes at camporees, it is like being at trade show in Las Vegas. Scoutmasters are looking over other Troop's tents, water boiler, cookers, and gear. Asking what works best, what keeps you dry, what cleans up the easiest. Please post back to this forum how the Volcano 2 works. I might have to add it to my wish list for this next year. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

ScubaDiver, My Troop was just talking about these on Monday. And asking the same question you had stated. I saw a few demonstration models being used at "The Outdoor Adventure Place" during Jamboree. The Volcano and Volcano 2 appear to be pretty nice. Elevates the heat off the ground, and free standing. As well as directing the heat inwards towards a dutch oven (or a skillet may be placed on top). They seem to collapse just slightly, by placing the top hemisphere into the lower hemisphere of the oven. But like anything that burns wood, charcoal or cooking food on; cleaning may become a chore for one of these Volcano ovens. I'm actually interested in picking up one myself. But I just don't like the current price tag (plus S&H). Hopefully you (we) do receive some more feedback about the Volcano and Volcano 2. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

clc, Greetings! You have already received some excellent advice. From attend training, to train the officers, to take them out to council and regional venturing events so they may enjoy Venturing. I would also add... To develope a Vision. (what the Crew will hear and learn as the attend training) Some short lived Crews only want to have fun, Venturing being nothing more than a social hangout. Other Crews may have extremely agressive leaders (rolling out of Boy Scouts or Girl Scout Seniors), and may be advancement oriented. A vision with a good blend of fun and advancement is what I would recommend. Create a calendar with mutual events that would be a hoot, along with events that may satisfy a learning and advancement environment. Try to find that happy blend that will satisfy both youth and adults and declare that to be your vision. I would expect that would help your Crew to grow into a long standing icon in your local community. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Rythos, Greetings! I have found, read, discussed, and experienced, that during recruiting events and throughout Scouting, Boys come for one reason, parents come for another reason. Shortridge (and a few other posters) have a good statement. Boys come to Scouting because it is fun. That is were there friends are playing the Scouting game at. Sometimes there best friends. (Game with a purpose) Adults come to Scouting because of the educational experiences (the school of the outdoors) for their son. The National BSA research and marketing offices have found that more Scouts are recruited, if they are invited by a friend their age. I certainly know, that very, very few boys (or Venturer) comes to Scouts because I have personally invited them. They come because of their friends and the fun. So while Rythos and the fellow leaders of the pack may have done everything correctly. Possibly they may attempt a more robust recruiting campaign with the current Cub Scouts themselves. Taking the printable business cards "My Best Friend is a Cub Scout" with meeting information to school. Some parents may not even be considering Scouts, until their 7 y/o come home absolutely begging to go to a Pack meeting. After their child has requested enough times to join his friends, possibly the parents' interest may be peaked enough to look into this thing they call Scouting. Some Scouts will do anything for a patch or a Recruiter patch. Some may need just a little more incentive. Maybe a Pack level recruiting incentive to the Cubs with the most friends coming to Scouts. Highest recruiter is given the newest Disney movie DVD or E-rated video game. Or tickets passes to the local amusement park. Or movie tickets and 10 dollars to the video arcade. I would wager that Cubs would be dragging their best friends to Den meetings and Pack meetings to win those incentives. Hopefully, some of these ideas may increase your unit recruiting numbers. Good Luck! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

oldsm, One evening retreat ceremony at Summer Camp a few years ago. We had one Troop, which had requested to conduct a flag retirement ceremony on the first day of camp. The camp was ready for a dignified ceremony. It was pretty good. But the Scoutmaster stood up infront of about 150 Scouts, and proudly proclaimed. As he emphasized certain words. "THE Boy Scouts of America is THE ONLY organization authorized BY CONGRESS to conduct a flag retirement ceremony". Quiet a few of the other leaders ears (and alertness) perked up. But no one wanted to correct him. (It wasn't that big of a deal to interrupt the ceremony) It was a good brief, but dignified and honorable ceremony. Though our fellow leaders were concerned that the boys received the correct statement, and did not take it as law and spread a Urban Scouting Legend. We just thought it was humorous and odd, that our fellow Scoutmaster had sincerely believed Scouting was the only organization exclusively allowed by law. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Knight, I tried to look it up on google quickly, but no luck today. I have always been told that Raven was one of the original WB patrols (and still used at the Gilwell Training Center). I have not staffed a course with Ravens, but I have a few Scouting buddies who have attended and are Ravens. I have also known a few panthers (more taken from Jungle Book, rather than the original Wood Badge). Additional Patrols are usually used when a course is so full (and successfully recruited), that the Course Director and Course Advisor decide to go beyond the usual eight patrols. Where do they fit in... While entering Gilwell Field, or song order. Since the Ravens are normally an overflow patrol, they go 9th in order just after the Antelope. So... If the story is correct. The Ravens did not just come about, but more that the Raven patrol is ocassionally revived. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Adventurous, Greetings! While my "young and handsome" years a a few decades ago. My own story, I was not a Boy Scout, but an Explorer in my teen age years. I thoroughly enjoyed Explorers when I was a teen. When had about a 50/50 mixture of teenaged and college young adult girls and boys. We did have a few (young adult men) former Explorers and former Scouts return to the Post as Advisors after a few years. But the Post Advisor would counsel them on potential interest by the teenaged Explorer girls. The Post Advisor expected this may occur on occasion and the new associate Advisors would behave appropriately as well. Myself after becoming and adult and moving, I could not find any Explorer Post in my neighborhood. Eventually, I was invited to become an ASM (for recreation, Scout skill games and to be a 2nd adult) at the nearby troop. It was a hoot! A young man two years, younger than me was asking if I wanted a cup of coffee. However, if Explorers were present, I would have returned as a young Explorer Advisor in my early - mid twenties. So.. At my age now.. My Venturing teenage girls (and boys) roll their eyes, when I change the Advisors Minute to the "Grin and Bear It" from the back of the Boys Life magazine. My handsome years are long gone, and now I am a slightly gray haired, slightly wrinkled, very corny (but still fun) old adult. While our Venturers don't think adults my age are perceptive to their current "real world", my fellow Advisors try to give them some space while being observant to their group behavior, teamwork, discipline, and dynamics. The parents and Advisors are quiet observant, even though we may appear to be old, corny, and sometimes need glasses and hearing aids. Regarding older Venturers and young Advisors. We have also had a couple of college aged Venturing youth, which are engaged to each other. Recently one of the Venturers (the boyfriend) has changed from a Venturing youth to a Venturing Advisor. He (and his fiance Venturer) understand their expected behavior in front of the entire Crew and other youth. Away from Venturing and Scout event, they may sit together on their parents' couch, holding hands, watching movies, going on dates, etc. But when it is Venturing time, they behave as Venturer and Advisor. In addition to our adults conducting YPT and the youth attending Officer Briefing and their youth protection. Our Venturing Crew has written and administer their own bylaws. Their basic bylaws are very short, it falls on one sheet of paper. But they self regulate their behavior and public displays of affection. They understand that inappropriate behavior and affection may make other Venturers feel uncomfortable. My Venturers understand that personal relationships between teenagers, and rarely between 19 and 21 y/o young adults may occur. But they also have agreed to abide by their own by-laws and self regulate their behavior. Regarding your situation. Yes, you are reacting correctly. As you stated, You should discourage them from taking an interest in you. Their parents (probably corny and closer to my age), may be perceptive of this also. So the young female Venturers in your Crew may be quickly removed by their parents if they continue with their behavior. My advice. Similar to our other forum members, I also recommend that your Crew refresh themselves with YPT for the adults and youth. Your Crew should also create or review their own bylaws. If the Venturers take ownership in their own bylaws, maybe your Venturing Crew will self regulate a little more. Such as, they may discuss what behavior (or discussions) would be appropriate and what behavior would become inappropriate. With your (and the Crew Committee's) guidance, their bylaws may read nearly exact to YP, G2SS and other national literature. If they negotiate and create their own standards, not a set that was written by national BSA, they may appreciate their bylaws more. Their behavior and discussions should align themselves with what is expected by the Advisors, Crew Committee and their parents. While there may be interest (which happens between older teens and young adults). The unhealthy interest and inappropriate discussions should diminish. Good Luck! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

TnTScoutMomma, Greetings! I was pretty much in concurrence with your BOR. Until like ursus snorous roarus stated, the next BOR allowed a Tenderfoot Scout to pass without his handbook. One thing to consider. As much as the literature and handbooks are a baseline, no two Troops will be identical. Just hypothetical, but a Scout may be asked if he enjoys Scouting yes or no in one state. While on the other side of our country, a similar Scout may be grilled and performing skill after skill for a couple of hours to achieve the same rank. But at least, within a Scout's Troop, there should be some regular standards, that both Scouts and families can rely upon. A question though. Was it the same BOR adults which served on both board of reviews for your son and the Tenderfoot Scout? Within my own Troop, we conduct BOR's with a week advanced request during the Troop meeting. During our regular troop meetings, we have had Scouts arrive in full uniforms (Scout hat to socks and hiking boots) and Scouts arriving in nothing resembling a uniform (maybe its because the just come from baseball or soccer practice, maybe because the parents or boys really care about being in uniform). But as a Scout leader, we don't turn a boy away from the meeting for being in urban school attire. Now to describe our similar situation to your son's recent BOR. For a few reasons, our Troop Committee has decided that they will conduct a uniform inspection prior to beginning the BOR. All of our Scouts and families have been made aware of this. If they do not pass a uniform inspection, the BOR ends and the Scout is explained what patches he has been issued that he should be wearing. (Usually it is the rank prior, which the parents have not sewed onto the shirt yet.) So.... your question.. Was your son's BOR and the other Scouts BOR mishandled? Yeah.. If it was the same BOR adults. Yes. Maybe not intended to be that way.. but yes. Are you spot on in thinking? Well yes. I would concur... My opinion now... Is it the end of a Scouting trail for your son, No. Is it a disappointment, yes. Should BOR members be run out of town on a rail (or taken off the troop committee), No.. No way.. But could the Advancement Chair discuss what is expected from the entire Troop and also discuss what is expected from the adults serving on a BOR. Yes. Both Scouts and adults should have a baseline of what is expected. What could result in a "Go vs. No Go" decision. Good Luck to your Scouting son on the rest of his Trail and his campaign for SPL. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

ASM59, Greetings! I don't have my manuals in front of me right now. But, I believe in some of the literature (which is agreed upon by a few national training committees) is that BSA does not want to place the cost of the staff onto the participant. So the cost for staff development weekends (which ever course), Train the Trainer and Trainer Development Conferences are routinely place upon the staffers (as well as those hosting the course). So yes.. In my dealing with quiet a few councils, and attending and staffing TDC a few times, it is normal to be requested a small amount to become a staffer. However, on some occasion, scholarships are authorized by the local council executive committee. Such as, I have attended National Camping School for three courses; each time it was on the council expenditure, but I obligated two weeks of summer camp staffing per course. I've always enjoyed this quote, since it is true. Shortridge nearly stated correctly. I don't know who originally stated it. But it has been posted on the MacScouter webpage for years. If you are paid to do Scouting, you are called a Professional. If you are not paid to do Scouting, you are called a Volunteer. If you pay to do Scouting, you are called... ... A Scouter. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

kraut-60, This may not apply to everyone, or not all roundtables. I do think there should be a time allowed for announcements. It give everyone a baseline. All the units hear the same details at the same time. There is no variation. But what I have learned that fellow Scouters want from Roundtables are two things. Hands On and Take Aways. Not flyers and paper instructions, but something they can assemble, disassemble, or manipulate. A hands on Scouting skill that they may pass to fellow Scouters and the Scouts. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

WDL Mom, Greetings! Training records do get lost on occasions... Also Scouts and Scouters move across the US, and expect their record to follow them like an online banking account. In reality, most councils now use ScoutNet. Most all their Councils training and advancement records are on local council servers, and I believe duplicated and saved on national BSA servers. However records must be released between registrars. Similar to having a college transcript forwarded to another university across the U.S.; it is not automatic, but it is possible. Also, training syllabi do get updated; as national policy, documentation "handbooks", advancement requirements, and advancement recording changes. I believe that Scouting created Pack Trainer about seven years ago, (in 2000) to confirm that new Cub Scout leaders are completing the training, but also partially to take the training to the Packs, for those that could not attend District and Council training events. From the Leadership Training Committee Guide, "There are three types of training situations: group training, personal coaching, and self-study." Regarding your new Tiger Den leader. You had asked, What to do? What is required? And, Does the Council force this issue? My thoughts are... As some of our fellow Scouters have stated. The YPT is the mandatory training for direct contact leadership. This is what the Council and Chartering Organization can state as a required training. After that, I would "personally coach" this Scouter. I have done this on occasion, having a 30 minute to a couple of hour meeting. I don't do it often, but I have reviewed the material one on one with other adults to assure they comprehend the syllabus. Honestly, your returning Tiger Den Leader may (or may not) have a very good understanding of the handbooks, documentation, advancement procedures, record keeping, etc. A full day of training will be result in one of two situations. A waste of time (if it was duplicating something they have already learned) they could have been Scouting with the Den or with their family; or a full day of training may be a great eight hour experience of learning and networking. "Group study" has its benefits, and is the preferred method, but it is one of three methods of training. If this returning Tiger Den Leader has experienced the CSLST training already (although it may be lost at council), then a "personal coaching" training method may review what he/she knows. Then you would be able to submit a valid training report to your district and Council registrar. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

GaHillyBilly, Greetings! You have read some excellent testimony towards the Order of the Arrow. You have read some great statements about the vision and goals of the OA. Also, an Arrowman's first devotion should be with his troop, then the chapter and lodge. I think all of our forum members would praise you for concentrating on Scouting skills and program within your Troop. That is probably the paramount goal for all Scoutmasters. Don't build a bias against the OA, from only one perspective. See for yourself if OA is worth it. Please also allow the Lodge and Chapter to visit your Troop and promote camping as well as Summer Camp opportunities. Also, please let them conduct an annual OA election. As for your questions, Is OA worth it? and, in terms of the fundamental goals of Scouting, is OA worth the time and energy it takes? How? With my Venturing Crew Officers Meetings, and during my Troop's PLC I request them to "give me about 50 percent work, and about 50 percent fun". I constantly ask, "Did you learn something?", and "Did you have fun?" Regarding your question.... Is OA worth it? I would ask a few youth Arrowmen, Troop OA reps, and Summer Camp Staffers that same question. Did you enjoy the work? and, Did you have fun? As for me, and my own opinion.... OA is definitely fun. Sometimes a Hoot! OA is very educational. OA is worth it. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

ASM59, Greetings! A good gift is an Eagle Item that they may wear. Or a 5 year membership into NESA. (If the parents or Troop does not already provide them.) An Eagle Scout neckerchief or Eagle bolo tie. Other items that may be found in a few shopping malls may be American Bald Eagle figurines. Anywhere between 10 dollars to a couple hundred. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, We stow our Troop trailer in a gated and secured parking lot. I can empathize though. I have heard of Scout trailer being stolen, Scout huts being broken into and stolen from. (Our OA Chapter recently painted over the graffiti and our local camp long house). More recently with a Troop in my district lost their Troop flag and all the streamers during an international camporee. It was taken from within their site at night time. (some other Scouting unit, probably thought it hilarious to take a BSA flag as a souvenir) Specifically for trailers, it doesn't take long. As a side story, when I lived in Puerto Rico, the Japanese sedans were the most common cars. Also the most common "refurbished parts". Anytime you went to the Mall of the Americas in San Juan, you could easily spot a tow truck, backing up to a new model Japanese sedan. Less than 60 seconds, and the truck is towing the sedan out of the parking lot with the alarm going off. The thieves never took them to chop shops, they stripped them on the side of the road. It took less than an hour till you would find a burnt out frame of a car. Supposedly they would do a favor by leaving your car on a major road, so the police could identify the VIN number and a victim could receive their insurance payment faster. All that to say. The Scout trailer gear was probably dumped on the side of the road within 10 minutes, the ID plate was probably popped off or filed in 20 minutes, and it was probably repainted within the half hour. Sorry for the Pack's loss. But it's becoming a dangerous world out there and many people do not have the character as our Scouts do. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

OGE and Fellow Scouters, Concur, the ESLP form requires a committee member, not the entire committee. Within my troop, we do ask all Life Scouts to present their project in front of the Troop Committee. This is not to slow their progress or to prevent them, but to assure they have covered all basis. We constantly have Scouts who have not thought thru safety, permits, equipment, we even had to ask a Life Scout about royalties and maturity ratings. We also negotiate calendar dates, since our Scouting calendar and personal calendars are pretty full, and the Service Project are volunteer hours (and usually weekends). The Committee negotiates with the Life Scout to maximize the service project timing so that the most Scouts, families and friends can attend. (Some Life Scouts and their families have decided to conduct the service project event, on the same weekend as a camporee, or other Scouting events which the troop has already registered for.) So my Troop Committee will constantly plan to have the Life Scouts present their project in front of our Committee, but in order to assist them, not as a blockade or prevention. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Twocubdad, Greetings! I haven't broken out the OA Advisors manual. But I believe they only explain that a current OA member may wear the pocket flap patch of their lodge. (They do not go into specific detail about all the types of patches, and when the may be worn). After National OA publications, It is not until you get to the Lodge and Chapter bylaws that they place additional rules on commemorative flaps or special flaps. I myself, would be proud to wear a patch of events that I have attended or participated. It would be difficult to explain a patch on my shirt, which I have not participated in. After seeing a mixture of patches on Scouts over the years, it does not upset me or anger me to see a special event lodge flap on a Scout who is an arrowman, but did not attend the event. I do think it is odd, that they are proud to wear a special events patch which they purchased or traded for. But back to your question. Is it acceptable? Well that is up to your local lodge and their bylaws. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

gcook1, Greetings! I concur with the majority of our fellow forum members. Like in training, sometimes we move from the known into the unknown. Or find an anchor point that the Scouts can relate to, then demonstrate to them a new concept or practice. Frustrations and misunderstandings may allow us to imagine some angry concepts. Establishing personal character, morals, and values prevent us from acting on anger. I can honestly say, I have been disappointed by "back stabbers" at work. Peers that have placed their name on my work. Co-workers that have "mud-slinged" near annual performance time. Did it disappoint me, yes. Would I violently act on those disappointments, no. Back in Psych 101 in college, that is why we have "Law Abiding Citizens", the majority have morals they have developed prevent them from acting selfishly. Of course, very very few youth and adults can differentiate perception and reality, and they may threaten and act violently. (as a fellow poster commented about Columbine) Based off of the positive comments you have made about this specific Life Scout, he may have been making a bad joke to himself, which he did not self edit. This email with the service project you have referred to, went from the Scout to your Troop Advancement Coordinator. It appears to be a threat, it could be a bad joke. It is factual though, there is written text from the Scout's email and would probably still reside on their family computer. Over the years, I have had two Scouts which have made negative and violent comments about myself, which were learned about by fellow Scouters. The violent comments about myself were never reported to law enforcement, but was dealt and discussed with during Troop Committee meetings. They did end with a family a couple of family meetings and apologies. You had asked. Am I over reacting? and What would you do in this situation? I don't believe you or the Advancement Coordinator are over-reacting. I too concur that you should report the comments in the email to higher authorities, to help in a resolution. Whether it is the Troop Committee, Chartering Organization, Scout Executive or your local Law Enforcement, I would support you. It may result in a disturbed youth and detected early. Or, it may be a bad joke, which may quickly be resolved by a family meeting and apology. Probably more of the later. As far as your decision to delay signing off on his project. That is your decision. But the Scoutmaster's signature for the project is different than the signature for the Eagle Scout Advancement Application. The project is to see if it matches the criteria of being a worthwhile project for a beneficiary. The Eagle Application is to determine of the Scout has Scout spirit and worthy of being an Eagle. Now a trivial question, if a Scout may never attain Eagle based on their own character and spirit, why allow them to perform a Service Project. That may be another question for the Scoutmaster to determine. Good Luck in your decision! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv