Crew21_Adv

Fellow Scouters, As the District Trainer. I teach my fellow Scouters, that nothing goes on during Pack Meetings or campfires that was not rehearsed or reviewed by the emcee, Cubmaster, or SPL. Absolutely nothing. Even run ons that appear to be random, are scripted. I've seen a few run ons that get the crowd pumped up at the end of a campfire or ceremony. I've seen extremely foul language used during a skit that was not reviewed (the skit ended within seconds). I've seen slow quite songs, being changed without any approval and they crowd gets pumped up again. So even for run ons. It is good to have resource, I highly encourage using run ons to get the audience participating either Boy Scouts at camp or parents at a Pack meeting. But I highly recommend that you teach that they are all scripted. And that the EMCEE whoever it is, knows everything that is happening. Two of my favorite run ons. You said you know about the pulling/pushing rope. Here is another spin on it I've seen. A Scout walks by the campfire dragging a rope, and another Scout walks by and says "What are you doing dragging that rope?" The first Scout replies "Have you ever tried pushing one?" Okay. So that's corny enough. Then a skit/song later.... A Scoutmaster walks by the campfire dragging a fully uniformed Scout by the leg (it happened to be the same Scout from the skit earlier), and another Scoutmaster walks by and says "What are you doing dragging that Scout?" The first Scoutmaster replies "Have you ever tried pushing one?" They had planned both run ons, but no one was expecting the second one. The crowd was in tears... Another Favorite run on is done between three skits/songs. A Scout says loudly he is nervous skydiving for the first time, and while placing on a small backpack acts like he climbing into a parachute. He jumps sideways, as if jumping out of a plane. Acts like he is pulling a chute ripcord across his chest, and screams "Uh OH! Ahhhhhhhh!" as he runs backwards across the front of the campfire. After the next skit/song, another Scout says loudly that he is nervous lighting his grandfather's old 1910 era Coleman lantern. He acts like he lights a match, yells "Boom!" Then "Uh OH! Ahhhhhhh!", holds the latern against his chest and runs backwards (in the opposite direction) across the front of the campfire. After the next skit/song, both Scouts are running backwards (one wearing a parachute (aka small backpack)) The other with a latern or something similar held to his chest. Just as the cross each other directly infront of the campfire, they stand facing each other running in place and yell. "Hey do you know anything about parachutes?!" "No!, Do you know anything about Laterns?!" "No!" Both continue to yell "Ahhhhhhhhhh!" And they continue to run backwards away from the campfire. Then there is always the Scout walking right behind the emcee (SPL) looking around the ground with a flashlight. The emcee/SPL ask "What are you doing? I'm trying to conduct a campfire here" And the other Scout replies "I'm looking for that last punchline" Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Scoutmomrn, Greetings! IMHO. Concern is good, if its moderate. If I can make an analogy, and relate it to the recent hurricanes on the Gulf Coast. If a resident leaves their home too earlier, it can (and will probably) be looted and they return with home still there but everything of value stolen and gone. If they stay, nothing will be looted or stolen, but they have a unknown risk of losing everything. Their home may be completely demolished or it may withstand the weather and come out of the hurricane as though it were a light afternoon rain. Is it worth the risk? The residents have to ask themselves that question every hurricane. All boys go thru phases, many different phases, even at the Cub Scout and Webelos age. Some like to illustrate them, some prefer to play violent video games (aka first person shooter), some enjoy watching scary and bloody horror movies. Some even practice their wrestling moves in front of the TV, jumping from the high rope (back of the couch) onto their brother while watching WWE. Concern is good. A Den Leader should be concerned about all the youth in the Den (or Pack), making sure that the pack is a safe haven. Reacting (or over-reacting) to illustrations and collections, would be bad on your part. The boy has done nothing harmful, he hasn't stabbed a penguin or fellow Cub Scout. So... Now it sounds like you don't want to wait for something to happen. "I have not seen any physical violence thus far, but I don't really want to wait for that before something is done." My opinion. The boy has not done anything dangerous (as you have stated). Illustrations and fantasy, yes, but no action. If I were Cubmaster or Pack Committee Chairman and heard that you were concerned, great! I would be happy that you are watching out for the entire den's well being. If you over-reacted to nothing that has not occurred. If you wanted the Cubmaster or Pack Committee to take action on a boy who has not done anything yet. I would invite you to visit other Packs in the neighborhood. So, I applaud your concern, and even your warnings. But similar to my analogy of a hurricane. I may decide to ride it out, and hopefully the boys fantasies die down to a tropic storm, light drizzle, or morning mist, and nothing more. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, Greetings! Well my wife is a real trooper. We we met, we both had teenagers. As we dated, we told each other our backgrounds, likes and dislikes, etc, etc, etc. To include what social clubs and what professional memberships we maintain. As we began to date more frequently, after three or four weekends of camping or other events with the Scouts. She asked what she needed to do, to spend more time with me. I handed her an Adult BSA Application. Of all the luck, our anniversary is has usually been during the Summer, which has been a busy Scouting month each year. Our honeymoon and anniversary have regularly been spent with other Scouters. She recently proposed that we get married again, during another (less Scout event frequented month); I swear, she's a genius! Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

WarrenW, Greetings and Congratulations fellow Wood Badger! I usually just wear the thong and beads. You will find this is more common for every day Scouting. But for ceremonies I wear the beads, neckerchief and woggle. I prefer wearing my BSA beads with my British neckerchief. The BSA beads are just slightly larger than the British version, and similarly the British neckerchief is slightly larger than the BSA beads. If a Scouter has a larger neck, or is barrel-chested then the BSA Wood Badge neckerchief may look like a Tiger cub neckerchief around the neck . Not too bad, but if you have to rush out of campsite, you may lose your woggle as you are trotting around the entire camp. So sometimes a twist in the thong and beads will secure the neckerchief and woggle in place, no matter if youre walking or running; or wearing the BSA or British set of regalia. Like epalmer84 described, it is probably the easiest way. Infoscouter also stated to cross the beads, that is what I (and many fellow Wood Badgers do to finish them) If I can add onto epalmer84 list. * Place the thong through the woggle and drop it till it stops at the beads * Place the thong around your neck * Put on the neckerchief * Put the woggle on the neckerchief and pull the beads down Then I would add *cross the thong/beads one half turn to make a loop behind the neckerchief *pull the lower ends of the neckerchief thru to the back of the loop just create, moving the beads from the back to the front of the neckerchief This final step usually causes friction with the neckerchief, woggle and thongs/beads, and prevents the woggle from sliding down off of the neckerchief. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, National has been moving to more standardized training for a while. But you can probably figure, that they wanted to be sure that online distance learning would take hold and be a preferred method. (which it has been catching on). National has been standardizing training since Fast Start began on VHS in the early 80's. Ages and Stages go back to 91, then 97 before the NLE VHS version was released. Also, similar to what anderle stated. Training has to be available. Although its an advanced course, Powderhorn; the only time I was able to register for a week long course about three years ago. I was registered (Paid in full) almost nine months out in another council, I think I was the first one registered and wanted to insure that I had a seat in the class. At three weeks to the course, I had to cancel my work vacation and travel plans after I received a full refund in the mail. I had to call the Powderhorn course director to find out why I received a full refund. Ends up, I was one of five Scouters to register for the course at the 30 day limit. I still have not yet been able to register for another weeklong Powderhorn course. Again. Regarding mandatory training. I concur with certain course, for specific positions. But I continue to have issues about retraining. I encourage retraining and currency. But if a unit has a good program, maintain YPT training, and read the Scouting magazine, Scouting.org webpage, and they read and review the leader handbooks regarding advancement or policy changes. Then why ask them to repeat an updated version of a class they've been trained on. Heck. WB21C, is on its third or fourth edition. So everyone that attended before 2006 should attend again? Just to obtain the 1 or 2 sessons that have been added or changed? I would vote no. Just coach them on the changes, and call them "Trained". I would expect the same with "This is Scouting" and any other basic level training. Coach fellow Scouters on the changes, and continue to call them "Trained". Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

jet526 and Fellow Scouters, Greetings! I see two possibly three different topics here. First topic. The Candidate was not ready. Was he a bad youth? It doesn't sound so. Was he Eagle quality? Maybe not yet. But maybe a month from now, his performance may be improved. That is up to the EBOR to determine. Definitely, he should not have been compared against other candidates, it should not appear to be an election vote. He should be compared against the National requirements and district expectations though, did he complete all requirements. Yes. Though maybe not highly exceeded, he met the minimum. Well that is satisfactory. Did he meet the EBOR minimum? It sound like he did not, but the vote passed him anyway. Out of a few Eagle Scouts that my Troop has forwarded to an EBOR. We had one young man roll his eyes and continued to exhale as the committee discussed his project, specifically addressing safety. Months later when he brought his application thru, it was folded, bent and crumpled up in his hip pocket. While we reminded him this is probably not the best way to take care of an Eagle Scout Rank Application, it barely phased him. He personally would swing back and forth between being a good kid and being a rotten kid. No matter how much encouragement and support the committee advised him, he thought he could take on the world alone. Next topic. LDS Scouting. (and I expect a few shots back at me for this) I've got a few buddies that are LDS Scouters, most somewhat agree. There are pro's and con's there. The LDS Scouting leaders is called to that duty. Some leaders love it, they are seriously excited when they have been called to be Scouting leaders. While other LDS gentlemen, unfortunately, are less than enthusiastic and are just called to become Scout leaders. Some LDS Troops never see the indoors of a building. They are constantly outdoors, constantly camping, constantly hiking, Scouting every day. Unfortunately, Other LDS Troops never see the outdoors; their ranks, merit badges, and BOR are just a paper drill. The LDS leadership has regularly addressed Scouting, reminding their called leaders that it is an LDS program and to handle it correctly. There are some great Scouts and Scout Leaders examples within their denomination. But a few "called leaders" fail to follow that example and use the Wilson theory to occupy their Scouts. In this candidates case, I would say the youth failed to take it seriously (he failed to look the part, or attempt to act the part) and also failed leadership, whom probably made no attempt to prepare him for an EBOR. So, while this young candidate was not a shining example. His LDS troop may be faulty, but not the entire LDS Scouting program. My bottom line about this topic. I do backflips when I meet a new Scouting friend from the LDS church that enjoys Scouting and is highly enthusiastic about becoming a Scout leader. I am slightly disappointed when I've visited a LDS troop, and could not tell if they were a basketball team or a Scout troop. (not always, but its happened a few times) My third issue. Similar to a few LDS called leaders becoming apathetic toward Scouting, the rest of Scouting leadership is a volunteer position. Within other Troops, some volunteer troop leaders also become apathetic. And for the Scouts whom are able to pass thru a disorganized Troop, they too may not be the best or shining example of an Eagle Scout candidate. So.... Some personal responsibility on the candidate, and maybe more on the failed leadership. No matter if they are LDS, Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, or other major religion chartered, or just community based. The failed leadership may have also let the candidate down. Hopefully our fellow readers can take my comments with a grain of salt. I'm sure that people that blog about Scouting have the Scout's best interest at heart; but when they see a failed leadership or disorganized troop at camp, maybe they can coach the other leadership and better prepare ours and their Scouts to become Eagle Scouts and even more future great American citizens. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

CNYScouter and Fellow Scouters, Greetings again! Good points! I can empathize to a limit. I agree new training is important, staying current is important, but do we label previously trained Scouters as Un-trained? Can some of these items be conducted by distance coaching or one on one, vice classroom attendance. Some Scouters (or returning Scouters) have alot of available time on their hands. Others are busy every weekend, if it is not work, then there is Scouting, youth sports, church, etc, etc, etc. I've done both, full work shifts on weekends. And other years, I've done Scouting every weekend for 3-4 months. Sometimes having to decide which Scout event I will attend. Like a few friends. I have had to submit request thru the boss at home, to miss certain events so that I may have fun Scouting. Usually I have to pay an expensive dinner and date night (squeezed sometime between Scout nights). So, I can empathize with some busy parents and busy Scouters. I have also had Scouting friends whom live 2,3, or 4 hours from the nearest training, who have sacrificed an eight hour work day (even on Saturday) to attend a one hour training session. If I visit their Troop or Pack, I expect to see them applying the program as prescribed. If they have previously been trained and maintain YPT currency as always have or exceed two deep leadership. Then I love their fellowship, but I don't want them to get up at 0300 and drive to my town for a 0800 "repeat" session, then depart for a late night arrival. Maintaining currency is a minor issue to myself. (i.e. Does a previously trained Scouter understand that there is a huge mental and developmental difference between a 6 y/o Tiger and a 17 y/o Eagle? Does a previously trained Scouter know how to submit an advancement report? Have they read thru the G2SS?). I am happy if they achieve Specifics (or previous Fundamentals) once. Similar to a Boy Scout going thru a BOR. They've been tested. Do we need to retest them again? Achieving the Leader Specifics for that age level at least once, and maintaining YPT and Safety training. Those are my greater concerns. I would love to see 200-300 Scouters in the district training during each session. But, I am happy if they have been previously trained, and are current in YPT/Safety. I've just read thru the EDGE curriculum posted on Scouting.org, I too will probably attend the "This is Scouting", if I'm not the one presenting it. But I'm not enthusiastic about asking my entire district (specifically those already trained) to come in to receive the "This is Scouting". Especially not those whom have to clear a busy scheduled Saturday or drive many miles and hours of travel to come in for an hour of training (which is the next generation of training they've already received). When (and if) national determines that a training is mandatory or has an expiration and renewal date (like YPT and Safe Swim Defense), I'll gladly notify my fellow Scouters that they must attend to achieve currency. But if a council trainer or council committee member gets a wild hair growing somewhere and states that my fellow Scouters are "un-trained", solely because they have not attended the recent edition of training. Whoa!! Standby! (Who died and made them National?) Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

Fellow Scouters, Greetings! This topic has come and gone over the years. (I'm slightly afraid that someone might quote one of my previous post, so I hope I don't contradict myself today) To CNYScouter. No. I have not heard about units not being able to recharter, and loosing units due to this current rumor. If you view the Centennial Quality Unit or the previous Quality Unit, there is an amount of basic training that Scouting request for all immediate contact Scouters. I have never heard anything from national sources about being retrained, except for curriculum that has an expiration date (YPT now states 2 years on the online certification, Saftey Afloat/Safe Swim Defense have been 2 year expiration for a while). Here is a scenario I would expect.... Progressive training, I can appreciate. A trained Webelos Den Leader who has completed every level of Cub Scout Specifics should attend Scoutmaster/Assistant Scoutmaster Specifics and IOLS to be trained in the troop level. But why go thru NLE again. Then the next year, the same new Assistant Scoutmaster youngest son becomes a Tiger Cub. Back to the same Pack. Our previous Webelos Den Leader is current in YPT and already trained thru Cub Scout and Boy Scout Specifics. No need to alienate them and command them to attend mandatory training again. Confirm that they have the credentials, yes. Retrain them, why? Another Scenario. Let's say Aunt and Uncle (previously trained in Cub Scout Specifics) in a downtown city really believe their yougest nephew really belongs in the Pack their own son just graduated from a couple of years ago. Again, Confirm that they have the credentials, yes. Retrain them, why? I concur with Mandatory Training for those with immediate contact or direct leadership of a Den, Pack or Troop. If nothing more than to abide by Safety and Youth Protection. Peronally, I do not concur with "Mandatory Re-training". Upgrade training, yes, continuing education (Roundtable) yes, and advanced training, yes. But I don't concur with mandatory re-training. With some youth sports, a volunteer cannot coach until they have completed the mandatory safety training. Possessing the skills in that sport are a plus, but safety is even more paramount. Again to CNYScouter. I would not be suprised if national BSA soon makes certain training levels for certain positions absolutely mandatory for recharter, and councils would eventually be willing to assume the loss. Its unfortunately, but I would rather lose a unit, lose the numbers, and have the families searching for a nearby "trained" Pack or Troop. Rather than having my council slapped with a few million dollar lawsuits for a missing finger, broken bone or worse. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, Just to chime in. Some Districts sell, (or sometimes its earned like a Scouters Merit Badge), a district neckerchief, a district bolo tie, or a district name tag. Or a Red Jacket (or what ever jacket you use) District Patch. Like click23 has stated with the insignia guide, the insignia guide has made allowances for ladies to place certain patches in above the pocket vice on the pocket. Mainly because boys, men and ladies all come in different shapes, sizes and etc. Similar questions have been asked in this and other forums (and it remains mostly a heritage issue), but when you earn the Scouters Key or Scouters Training Award it is a medal for the chest. But if you earn the Cub Scout Leaders Awards, they are neck ribbons which are draped around the neck. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, I try not to use the term simplify. I don't agree that is what we and BSA have done. I have had associates in Scouting and also my profession that desired nothing less than 100 percent perfection. (which I believe is impossible). Nothing less was acceptable to them. They believed that any achievement must be a struggle. Nothing less than blood, sweat and tears to obtain perfection. If these associates were at the council and national level, the first and last Eagle Scout would have probably been back in 1910. Myself, I always believed an achievement should be a challenge and milestone. But not a brick wall in the road that would immediately halt all progress and not allow anyone to pass by. I will agree that we modified the trail to Eagle, but I don't agree that we have lessened it. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21_Adv

CNYScouter, Good question. Per the Venturing/Ranger Handbook. Venturers may be Den Chiefs. Also, per the Den Chief Handbook. Den Chiefs may earn and wear the Award. But per the Insignia Guide on scouting.org, it states Boy Scouts (without stating Venturers). I would vote for yes. He should be able to wear it, till 21. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

DeanRX and Fellow Scouters, I do not have my entire library with me, but the skill award requirements were almost all placed into the rank requirements. Most all of the skill requirements remain intact in the program. But the skill awards "belt loops" were removed. BSA programs (and advancement) have changed over the past nearly 100 years of Scouting. Intially there were no Star and Life Ranks. Eagle was awarded after the First Class rank, and requirements have changed slightly (not dramatically) over the years. Again, I do not have the professional studies. But leading into the 80's, National BSA contracted for studies, as well as reviewed their own statistics. National BSA noted that the average youth age population was averaging around 12'ish. And that many youth (and families) were leaving "in droves" the BSA program before the rank of First Class. Similar studies seem to find that very few 13 y/o Scouts could write a comprehesive 500 word essay for each merit badge. Afterwards most merit badge essays were shortened to 200 word essays. The survival and health of the BSA program was shrinking, due to the evolving society. Some adult Scouters would rather see fewer dedicated Scouts, over many numerous half hearted Scouts. But at some point we would be signing our own death warrant. I too would like to see motivated and dedicated Scouts, but not at the loss of the entire program. I have seen various Scouting and population statistics before, but cannot recall them right now while replying to this forum. The keeping of the same amount of skills and removal of the time requirements between Scout thru First Class has seemed to improve retention in the Scouting program. More Scouts and families appear to be staying in the program, than during the 80's. So after consideration, I welcomed the advancement guideline changes, as minimal impact while still retaining some quality Scouts. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, Maybe not as a Troop's "class B" t-shirt. Although I've heard much, much more offensive things around the campfire and even here in our forum. But isn't that the great thing about Citizenship in the Nation. That we as Americans have the right to wear a T-shirt like this (and other similar T-shirts that you see on college campuses, high schools, malls, on the beach, downtown, and out in the country). I'm not going to run out and purchase one of these T-shirts, but about 18 years ago, I owned a "I'll fly 10,000 miles to smoke a camel" T-shirt. I don't think anyone would laugh at my faded old "Better Dead than Red" t-shirt anymore (especially not my Russian neighbors). I never purchased an "Uzi Does It" t-shirt, but a buddy did. While, a T-shirt like this is maybe not the best topic for the Scouter.com forum. I hope that no one casting stones at GW, has ever made a wisecrack or offensive comment about anyone else. Who knows... If I saw GW on the street wearing this T-shirt, I would probably roll my eyes. If I saw GoldWinger at a Camporee, my psuedo greater-than-thou attitude may fling a pebble his way. I try to humble myself, but I'm still a sinner. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Scudder, Greetings! As an Advisor and Assistant Scoutmaster allow me to give you my opinion. I have not seen detailed regulations, beyond the G2SS. I have not made the trip; but the Florida Seabase, BSA (as well as other privately contracted similar programs) allow Co-Ed Venturers to sleep within the same berthing area, along with appropriate adult and staff membership. The question should not be if Boy Scouts and (Co-Ed) Venturers be able to take a multi-day trek together. If that was the quesion, I would expect the question would be yes. I do not believe there are restrictions for (Co-Ed) Venturers and Boy Scouts mutual activities. I don't expect a restriction about camping together. An issue for the committees to resolve, yes (because of more tenting and specific leaderhip), but not a restriction. The question should be, Do we need both male and female adult leadership, and how many? And how will tenting arragements be made? You may need to take more tents, more equipment and specifically more leadership, than what you would normally desire with just a Boy Scout Troop. Anyways. That is my immediate thoughts and opinion. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Jet, Greetings! Dues are really to sustain the finances of a unit program. With dues and fundraising, we have paid for all advancements and positions of responsibility, we have purchase and resupplied Troop equipment and consumables, and we have rechartered the Troop. So our annual budget is planned out, the troop has sustained a regular 5.00 monthly for dues, fund raised 2-3 times a year, and been beneficiary of ocassional grants. The Troop I serve ask 5.00 a month for dues. The Crew I serve also ask 5.00 a month. The Crew suspended dues for one calendar year after a successful fund raising season, but has since began dues again. Of note, my family participated in Little League baseball for two years. The total cost in that community was about 600 per child for a three month season. Equipment rental, lighting, park rental, and etc. This did not include personal equipment. I applaud Little League and families that participate as it is a positive program. A fairly decent time and learning experience for my family, but far too costly to sustain. So after a few seasons of Little League. I don't think I'll ever question a Pack, Troop or Crews dues amount. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, Greetings! I have heard about the Young Marines (as well as other national pseudo military programs, auxiliaries, and cadets for both youth and adults). They do have some positive similarities, and also some vast differences with the BSA. I do find it humorous that Pappy felt that he had to write a final memorandum to the Scouter Forum. We're not his Commissioner, Chartering Organizations, or specifically the parents. I'd prefer to read that Pappy is starting a Young Marines unit; rather than not rechartering a Cub Pack and Scout Troop in order to have the youth to begin the Young Marines unit. It sounds more of what the leaders want, and less of what the boys want. Hopefully the youth and parents are happy with the change. Good Luck Pappy. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

fishbelly and Fellow Scouters, I too have scratched my head at a few Eagle Scout candidates. Usually it was for the Scout just showing up to the project and EBOR, while the troops took care of everything else. On rare occasion I've known few troops to tell the Council Advancement Committee Chair, that they already conducted a project and held an EBOR and didn't know that there were required signatures (or forms). Not that these were bad youth, just that they merely showed up. While their troops did a disservice to them. So, fishbelly, I can empathize, sometimes with more (or sometimes with less) information, a Scouter may ask, "how can this happen?". But regarding this Scout in your posting that made a few bad decisions and others like him. Similar to our other forum members, probably due to privacy, we do not have all the details; as well as, our forum is not a legal forum, but more of a common Scouting practices forum. Concur, Scoutldr stated it correctly. The Scoutmaster determines that the Scout demonstrates Scout Spirit and a sanctioned Eagle Board of Review determines that a Scout sufficiently warrants the rank of Eagle Scout. Please allow me to throw out a few thoughts. Can a youth be redeemed and pay a debt to society and the community, for some errors in judgment? I would hope so. A handful of adults probably took the "school of hard knocks" to become doctors, lawyers, judges, mayors, teachers, maybe even Scoutmasters and etc. Hopefully, an extremely small handful of adult Eagle Scouts have ever served time for an error in judgment, but the possibility exist. To prevent youth from making bad moral decisions and sometimes to help redeem them Scouting has used Scoutreach. Scoutreach has a few avenues (such as rural Scouting) but creating a Juvenile Diversion Program is one of the methods to preventing/redeeming youth. Here are just a few quick links as proof, which regard youth and juvenile development (and sometimes correction). http://www.scoutreachbsa.org/resources/11-308/ http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/9903/a-rcho.html http://www.sltrib.com/midvalley/ci_10556296 So back to the Topic by fishbelly. How he can become a Eagle Scout... I would answer by redeeming himself and thru the assistance of his family, Scoutmaster, the Troop and Troop Committee (as Scoutldr stated). It is possible, and hopefully, the Scout will grow to become a good citizen that will make good moral decisions. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Fellow Scouters, Greetings! I've heard about the upcoming EDGE course replacing the TDC as well, and expect it to be an expanded version of the NYLT topic. EDGE has been a part of the new NYLT topics since 2003. The Staff constantly use the EDGE techniques, then a one hour Leading EDGE/Teaching EDGE topic and approximately two hour application on Day Three of NYLT. Teaching the Patrol Leader to teach and lead using GPSs before the Adventure Hike. It is a great concept. I don't see EDGE being stretched to eight hours. But possibly, taking certain TDC topics (Communications, Planning, How Adults Learn, Technology, Pizzazz) and overlaying EDGE throughout. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Annie, I, Concur with epalmer84. The new CS training curriculum has not yet been given to National Supply yet. I believe original curriculum and DVD issues were distributed in July, with the DVD revision distributed in August. I received both in August. Eventually, it should be handed over to National Supply. But for now, check with your DE or SE for the second distribution of the revised DVD. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Annie, Greetings! Sounds like a joke that Scouters were pulling on each other. Or Urban Legends just beginning. Here is what I've been told. (So like everything else, take it with a grain of salt.) While my DE and SE, are pretty darn good, they don't know exactly everything, but they are pretty sharp with BSA programs and emerging programs. They have stated, that National briefly considered a Cub Scout Kindergarden aged program, similar to the GSUSA beginning the Daisies so many years ago. I've been told that national had consultant firms and paid researchers, but determined that the common kindergarden aged boy would not be able to complete some educational task, for a hour each week. Determining that the mental development of 5 y/o boys is different that 5 y/o girls. They stated the concept of a kindergarden Cub Scout age program was considered by national, but was not pursued. (or you can say the concept was tabled or shelved for now) Any how, my DE and SE explanations sound reasonable, so I bought it. I'm not watching for a new kindergarden aged program for a few more years. Also.... "WannaBees" may sound offensive joking title. and most of the Cub Scout programs follow the Jungle Book characters. (Although, instead of Tigers, in England they have Beavers, and in Australia they have Joey Scouts). I expect the discussion of "WannaBees" to be a joke or Scouting Urban Legend. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

AntelopeDud, Greetings! Your Council Contingent Troop should be an actual Troop, from now, thru the Jamboree, until the transportation returns them back to your council. Like all other troops, we held elections, after the endorsement of the Scoutmaster. My contingent asked for resume's and positions they desired to run for. (All were fine resume's, they all were endorsed.) The resumes read more like school transcripts. Ranks, Camps, High Adventures, positions held in their units, and youth training attended. All resumes were distributed simultaneously to the troop, a week prior to the election period. The election period and final deadline date was set, and votes were submitted to the Scoutmaster via email. The SPL and PL's were elected. All other POR positions were endorsed by the Scoutmaster, then negotiated and invited by the new SPL. I would highly recommend that your SPL and green bar leadership be elected into their positions, and that the SPL request the remaining candidates to fulfill the remaining needed PORs. Of note. The Scribe will usually be the "Home Town News Reporter". The "Home Town News Reporter" will submit electronic stories about your troop, to email contacts at your local newspapers. (Before, Specifically during the NSJ, and a final after you return) The best part is, in order to get between your Subcamp and the NSJ News bureau desk (which may be up to 10 miles), they should be issued a special ID, chain and key, and corresponding Huffy bike (serial number matching their ID). Even better, alot of NSJ equipment is actioned off during the last day; our Scribe bought his 10 day old Huffy bike for under 50 dollars. Only the Home Town New Reporters are authorized to ride bikes at NSJ. You will see it in the rules that you agreed to, and the youth will agree to during their application, that no personal or troop bicycle transportation will be brought to NSJ. The reporters are suppose to submit a news article daily, so they may be allowed to be separated from the troop/patrol for half a day, depending on the Scoutmasters and troops safety rules. Anyways, with permission, they can be in Merit Badge Midway or the demonstrations booth, literally hours ahead of the troop, taking part with other Home Town Reporters from their subcamp. The SPL is the most prestigious position at NSJ. But the Home Town News Reporter (usually the scribe) may just be the smartest position to take. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv Oh yes.. Just to add... With the heat and rain and a few disappointments by the national staff and subcamp directors. There were a few ocassions of grumbling in the ranks. Usually, misdirected at the SPL, for his interpretation of the rules. All of the SPL statements were acceptable, just not always the most popular. Sometimes, the grumbling was a little more louder than usual or more from a few higher ranking Scouts. But we would state, "Hey, The Troop elected him!", which would quiet the grumbling down.(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

Fellow Scouters, I had to respond when I saw Mr Boyce's comments. Well, I've seen Pfadfinder in Lederhosen, and BSA Scouts not in hula skirts, but in Samoan lava-lavas. I do have a few friends and fellow Scouters which frequently wear Utilikilts. I'm glad its not part of the official BSA uniform. But heck, fellow Scouters wear jeans, unit T-shirts, and etc. So why not a kilt once in a while. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Scouter1960, Greetings! I skimmed over this thread quickly, but you've gotten excellent responses from everyone. Specifically, jblake47 commenting on a behavior award, and Scoutnut commenting on moving the pace along with multiple activities. My own attention span is maybe 30 seconds before I become distracted. So I can empathize with some of the Cubs, Boy Scouts, and Venturers. If I can echo some of the previous comments. I've seen other Cubmasters (though they were friends) and their Pack meetings would run longer than an hour. Cubs and siblings were uncontrollable. Here is my own story. When I was Cubmaster, I had a master script and all the DL had the script. If a den did not have a cheer ready, there was one I selected already on the script (kept them from deciding on a cheer for 5 minutes). The Dens would run up to the front, I would high five the Den Leader, and the Den Leader would pitch the patches out to the Den, commenting a few seconds on individual names. Then the Wave, another set of running high fives, a cheer then set them down. We even had announcements at the beginning and an interactive (action) stories in the middle of all the advancements. As the Cubmaster, I was the EMCEE, but I had the Den Leaders hand out the advancements. Towards the very end of our Pack meeting, we had two rotating awards (decorated bowling pins). The highest Attended Den and the Best Behaved Den. High Attendance was quickly counted by view and counting by quickly assembling into groups, even grandparents would hustle to get to the appropriate group. The Behavior Award was voted by the DL's during the interactive story. The boys (and families) were constantly moving, but their energy was directed towards the meeting. I never gave them idle time. Visitors were pre-briefed that they were welcomed, but, they knew that presentations would have to be flashy and no longer than 2 minute. My advice (as was already stated by fellow forum members), keep them (Cubs and Parents) busy the entire time, keep Pack Meetings less than one hour, and create a rotating award for behavior. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

353Beaver, Greetings! You've revived an old topic. But I concur with your thoughts. I think that the request for Wood Badgers to take off their beads and re-attend the new course is only to enhance numbers and attendance. The primary target audience is the new leader (Cubs, Scouts, or Venturing) that has just began Scouting with their son. But if recruiting falls low, the next audience are those Scouters which may already be committed to Scouting, the pre-WB21C Wood Badger. I honestly believe there are extremely few renegade Scoutmasters that prefer to do things their own way. Shortcutting advancements, adding to requirements, or violating safety guidelines. For those stubborn few, no matter how much training they receive, the few renegades will not change. I have a hard time accepting the old vs new arguement. Both courses taught and teach contemporary planning, leading and communicating. For pre WB21C Wood Badge Scouters that have participated activity within their units, regularly attended Roundtable, read and reviewed the merit badge phamplet updates, read and learned handbook changes, utilize their committee and PLC, and train their SPL to lead the troop; I really don't see the reason why they are invited to attend again. I personally attended the Wood Badge for Boy Scout Leaders, and staff that course also. I also have staffed the recent Wood Badge for the 21st Century three times. But because I have not attended WB21C as a participant, Am I less qualified than a new Scouter who has attended the recent course? There are some new National courses being released this year. Beginning with the OLC Den Chief Training and the newest Cub Scout Specifics. I've seen them promoted on a National training updates flyer released in January, and fellow forum member click23 posted them in July after returning from PTC. Specifically, Good to Outstanding (Advanced Scoutmaster Training) available by end of 08. I really don't know of any Scoutmaster that will register for a class titled "Good to Outstanding" and state that they are just good. Although the course material may be worthy, I see the title being changed within the next year. But bottom line, I highly concur with 353Beaver's recommendations. A Nationally sactioned (weekend or one day) refresher for the Wood Badge for Boy Scout Leaders and title them Wood Badge for the 21st Century trained is more desirable than adding another week of camping to the already limited calendar. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv

Pack212Scouter and fellow Scouters, Sounds more like an excuse for not being prepared for any flag retirements that day. Surely, the Cub-O-Ree director couldn't believe in a totally new urban myth like this. If a person is unprepared, unfortunately it is much easier to lie and have a scapegoat excuse. Scouting Forever and Venture On! Crew21 Adv