acco40

Americans celebrate Thanksgiving the fourth Thursday in November. Canadians celebrate in much the same way only during the second Monday in October. Eamonn, would you give us a brief synopsis of a UK Thanksgiving?

Trevorum, obviously you have never been married.

Merlyn, Don't want to get in the middle of your joust with Ed but according to the Bible (King Acco Version): Christmas tree as decoration - OKAY Christmas tree as an idol to worship - Big no-no In my warped sense of humor this all reminds me of my favorite Playboy cartoon. Roman Centurions are nailing Santa Claus to a cross. The caption is Santa declaring, "Hey, you got the wrong guy!"(This message has been edited by acco40)

Also, in my neck of the woods (real close to where I live) the term Radioactive Boy Scout has a real meaning. A Boy Scout had attempted to build a nuclear reactor in his mother's shed for a Boy Scout merit-badge project. Read the book. For a synopsis, check out: http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html(This message has been edited by acco40)

Rather, the board should attempt to determine the Scout's attitude and his acceptance of Scouting ideals. Scout spirit is defined as living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in a Scout's everyday life. The board should make sure that good standards have been met in all phases of the Scout's life. OGE, I agree wholeheartedly with the above. But, what to do with a BOR (committee) that simply states that if the SM signs off on the "Scout Spirit" req. that is proof enough and they don't take on the responsibility stated above?

The PLC and I have planned (partially planned in reality) an outing this coming October to "launch" pumpkins from a catapult. We will be doing this at our local council Scout camp. We asked the council office and they said no (too much mess). We talked personally with the camp Ranger and after explaining where at the camp we were to do this and that we would clean up afterwards he gave us the okay. Now, the noise factor is less than the potato launchers decribed above but as John-in-KC stated, one can do these type of thing the right way or the wrong way.

Just like the requirement to "prepare a backpacking meal" using a backpacking stove. What does that mean? For me, that means a meal one eats while backpacking. To others, it simply means utilizing a backpacking stove. To me, this is all part of the education / learning process for the Scout in dealing with adults (adult association).

Has anyone out there not slept "under the sky" at all? No, response by astronauts accepted! The determination should be made by the MBC. Attend summer camp (week of long term - say 6 nights), plus two night a month - seven months so a Scout with a year of experience should be able to easily fulfill this req. Even if the MBC wanted the boy to start after beginning the blue card (and believing the req means "as a boy scout" is just as arbitrary as believing "after starting this merit badge") the Scout should be able to complete within one year. Now, to add more controversy, does anyone else besides me interpret "Prepare for an overnight campout with your patrol by doing the following: 1) Make a checklist of personal and patrol gear that will be needed. 2) Prepare a camp menu that is right for backpacking. Give recipes and make a food list for your patrol. Plan two breakfasts, three lunches, and two suppers. Discuss how to protect your food against bad weather, animals, and contamination. 3) Pack your own gear and your share of the patrol equipment and food for proper carrying. Show that your pack is right for quickly getting what is needed first, and that it has been assembled properly for comfort, weight, balance, size, and neatness." as requiring a patrol (NOT troop) outing? Or, at the least, requiring the patrol to go out on their own for one day (backpacking)? to me, that is the intent of the req.

As Scoutmaster for our troop, I'm in charge of the advancement program. With that responsibility I think it is very important that I define what active means. I don't do that in a vacuum, but what is most important is the boys know what is expected. This is how I handle it in our troop and I openly welcome others comments. For the ranks of Star, Life, and Eagle a requirement of be active exists. What does be active mean? It goes beyond just being registered. It means that you are an active, contributing member of your Patrol and Troop. This requirement is explained in The Boy Scout Handbook, pg 169 as TO GAIN FULL ADVANTAGE of all Scouting has to offer, you need to be present when things are happening. Take part in meetings, in planning activities, and in the fun of adventures. If youre there, you can do your part to make your patrol and troop a success. However, it does not state specific attendance levels. Maybe you are very active in the Order of the Arrow, attending all functions and even serving in a leadership capacity. Your unit leader may not accept that as meeting the participation requirement. Likewise, you may be serving on camp staff all summer and busy during the fall with the start of school, sports, and/or a job. But, if you are not being a participating member, leader and example in your patrol and troop, your unit leader may not accept your performance for this requirement. So what do you do if life has you running a hundred miles an hour? Talk to your Scoutmaster. To avoid disappointment, find out what he sees as acceptable performance before you start working on these ranks. If necessary, use those leadership skills you're developing to negotiate an acceptable arrangement. Generally, to advance, you must participate as follows for the designated 4 or 6 month period: Weekly Meetings: you must participate in more than half of the weekly troop meetings. Campouts: you must participate in more than half of the campouts/outings. Other Troop Activities (parades, fundraisers, service projects, PLC meetings, etc.): you must participate in at least half of these activities. Again, if you cannot meet these participation requirements, for your own benefit, discuss your situation with the Scoutmaster before, not after the fact.

One small comment Hunt. The Scoutmaster is in charge of advancement and therefore should be in charge of the "Scout spirit" and "active" determinations. Now, the CO determines who the SM is and owns the troop so you could infer that "the unit" decides these term but I just want to make sure that when the rubber meets the road, the determination by the Scoutmaster is the one that counts.

FScouter, my reference was for two-deep leadership. 1. Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities. 2. During transportation to and from planned Scout outings, A) Meet for departure at a designated area. B) Prearrange a schedule for periodic checkpoint stops as a group. C) Plan a daily destination point. A common departure site and a daily destination point are a must. If you cannot provide two adults for each vehicle, the minimum required is one adult and two or more youth membersnever one on one. Now, does transporting nine Cub Scouts in three cars with each car occupied by one adult but not having a common departure point constitute two-deep leadership?

I go straight from work to our district's roundtable sometimes (roundtable is east of work, home is west of work, if I went home travel distance increases two-fold). Let's say I get in an automobile accident on the way. Does my personal insurance apply? I'm fairly sure the answer is yes. Will the liability coverage that is bought by the BSA apply? What if I'm on my way home to get my uniform and an accident occurs? What if I'm driving home and am somewhat ambivalent on attending tonight's roundtable and I get in an accident? Should I try and use BSA coverage? All good questions and I don't have definitive answers but while not required, the wearing of the uniform is a good idea and a possible indicator that one is on a Scouting function. I remember when I was a Cub Scout leader I would specifically state to parents that travel to and from some of our outings (activity badge workshop for example) was NOT Scout function because I was repeatedly saddled with transporting their children to and from the meeting. I was the only adult in the car so I did not want to violate G2SS regs.

Now, when a scout is First Class, things do get interesting, in order to advance he has to complete (make that satisfactory complete) a position of responsibility for at least 4 months. The requirement as I read it uses the term "serve actively in one or more of the following positions of responsibility." Again, it all boils down to a definition of active (not satisfactory) and since the Scoutmaster is in charge of advancement (see Advancement Guide) I'd leave it up to the SM to determine the definition. That said, the balancing act is to create a known definition so that the Scouts know what is expected (which is why many state percentages) but also be flexible enough to be able to tailor it to each Scout's circumstances (and risk being accused of playing favorites). What I do as Scoutmaster is have as guidelines a percentage that I feel if met indicates active but I also encourage the Scouts (not their parents) to give me feedback if they feel they can not meet those requirements. The problem I run into is that the feedback is given when they want to advance, not before. It is a balance of trying to set concrete expectations but still maintain flexibility. For example, I have a Scout who attends troop meetings fairly regularly but does not attend outings. His position of responsibility is Patrol Leader. He does attend PLC meetings too. His patrol doesn't attend outings much either (total patrol has attended only two outings all year, one Scout attended summer camp and three Scouts for our May outing. We have an outing every month.) Now is he active? Should it depend on why he has not attended outings or is that irrelevant?(This message has been edited by acco40)

The problems that I've incurred with camping in the Winter is that my tent poles crack. Does anyone else have this problem? I camp in 5 - 15F type temps (minimum) and the typical fiberglass (?) poles become brittle and crack under normal (not bearing any snow load) tension. Again, anyone else experience this?

Ideally, dues would be collected each week - a small amount that the boys would be responsible for and small enough that they would not be overwhelmed. Realisticly, dues every week can become a logisitcal nightmare and take up way too much troop meeting/patrol quarters time. Annual dues work best from a logistic point of view, easy record keeping, set date, etc. However, I've found that when this is done they parents take ownership of the dues paying because the amount seems so large to most of the kids. Our unit compromises - dues are paid quarterly. As SM, I suggested doing something lke our council/district does and have an "early bird" type discount - i.e. quarterly dues of $25 or an annual due of $90. The committee shot that down. My question, as SM, what do I do with a Scout when I know he is behind in his dues and is coming to me for a SM review tied to advancement? Should I make money an issue during the SM conference?

Nobody is being "forced" to sell. However, our council has some restrictions. 1) The "only to be opened by customer" boxes mean just that, if the box is opened it may not be returned. 2) They don't like dealing with the old fashioned popping corn so that is not returnable at all. We sell that as a unit by only as take orders. 3) They don't take back incomplete boxes of product. So, if you have a six pack with only one box sold, you end up having "buy" the remainder. As I said, selling popcorn is optional so nobody is being forced to do anything. Communication with other units can help. If you are short one $15 can in a case of 8, buy one from another unit and return a full case. They can by your odd lots if needed. A little more leg work but not that much of a hardship.

Big-neck-Little neckerchief - why does Chris Farley come to mind? I don't think the uniform police care about the size of the neckerchief. Mine is bigger than the boys (my neckerchief that is :-) They do come in varying sizes (again, neckerchiefs!). What should be "standard" is that approx. 6 inches should be hanging down (neckerchiefs again!!) in the back regardless of size.

Why are the boys in Scouting? Not the parents reasons but the boys. Would you volunteer to help a Scout on his Eagle project? I'd look at the following before I committed my time: 1) has this Scout helped me out in my times of "need", 2) is his activity well thought out and planned, 3) is food being provided, 4) are proper facilities available (bathrooms, running water, tools, etc., 5) has he looked to fellow students, siblings, friends, parents, etc. (no requirement exists for only fellow Scouts to help out). Yes, as SM, I too get frustrated at the multitude of Scouts and especially their parents who are only in Scouting for appearance (i.e. looks good on a resume, etc.) but it is really their loss and not mine if they don't get any real benefit from their scouting experience.

Our culture (USA) rewards results. Athletics are a big influence. Also, our culture emphasizes money. How one achieves their "success", fame or money falls a distant second to the success, fame and money. And we wonder why our youth cheat? Homework - I'm a practicing engineer. I found that in high school and college we regularly shared homework assignments that involved problem solving. We learned from those experiences and in fact some teachers encourage such collaboration. If a fellow student just took and didn't give, he was quickly exorcised from our circle. Now, for my other classes (non-problem solving) I found that homework was more of a solitary endeavor.

Hunt - you may be much more politically astute than I am. You may be correct, plus Bush doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected so he may make his choice less along party lines. If he really wanted to throw a curve ball, he could nominate either Jeb or to really really throw a curve, Al Gore! "Hispanic male" give any clues?

Conservatives sunk her bid and Democrats just hung back and watched Bush's nomination self-destruct. My prediction - Bush's next nominee will be way to the right of Harriet Meirs further dividing our country along the political spectrum.

Why not follow the program laid out by the BSA that we promised to deliver by signing our adult applications? Oops. Seems like I'm essentially repeating my post from 4/22/2004.

Hair color, hair length, beards, mustaches, clothes (to a certain extent), are all things that come and go (my hair sure "went"!). I don't have too much heartache when my kids exercise their freedom in these areas. Tattoos and piercings are another story. My 10 year old daughter still fights dear old dad because I won't allow her to get her ears pierced! But dad, I'm the only one in my whole class who doesn't have their ears pierced is a common refrain I hear on a weekly basis.

I own both long sleeve and short sleeve uniform shirts. My long sleeve shirt is my commissioner shirt - primarily a September through May shirt. My short sleeve shirts are used year round in our troop. In the summer, the temps get to over 100F (Jambo) in the extreme but easily are in the 85 - 95 degree range for summer camp, July and August outings in Michigan. In December, we participate in our local Christmas parade. The crowd wants to see boys in uniform, not with winter coats on. I have a short sleeve shirts (large) that I wear in the summer and indoors. I have other short sleeve shirts (x-large) that I wear on winter outings with room for thermal and other long sleeve items to be worn under the uniform. Now, for 95% of the time in the outdoors I wear the activity uniform in the summer and maybe 50% of the time in winter. Scout pants and socks don't work real well for Michigan winters. Heck, I've seen Scout shorts worn over thermal "long johns" so I have no problem with long sleeve undergarments worn under a short sleeve uniform shirt.

I think the Cub Scout WCA and the Boy Scout WCA, i.e. the "Panda" badge are slightly different. For Cub Scouts, the badge is ringed in purple. For Boy Scouts, the badge is ringed in tan. I even think there is a Venture version ringed in green. Don't forget that temporary badges may also be worn on the back of a Boy Scout's merit badge sash too.