acco40

As a SM, I took the troop committee challenge training because it is important that I, as a Scoutmaster, know the responsibilities of the committee and how it should operate. First, the TCC should be done at the troop level, not at some district wide training session. I would recommend against the set-up your district has suggested.

Nice. Oh, and watch your diet, it becomes your waist!

Where I live, Lake St. Clair and a few others were shut down due to E. Coli today (first beach closings this year). It is only after heavy rains (when the storm drains run directly into the rivers, streams and lakes) that give rise to the E. Coli (not dry months). Yes, sadly, "swimming holes" have become a thing of the past. However, I think many would be surprised at the bacteria counts in swimming pools! I am very fortunate to belong to a council that owns two camps, both with nice swimming lakes (one with multiple lakes). Yes, they are becoming rare and some kids swim much better in a pool that a lake due to psychological reasons. My question: Do you use the term "waterfront" at a pool? Is motorboating, canoeing, small boat sailing, etc. still done on the lakes with high E. Coli count?

What's all this talk about summer camps with pools?

Did you pass? Let's see. 7.) Your troop is planning an outing and you have invited a Webelos Den to accompany your troop. Some of the Webelos parents want to attend and bring along a younger (Bear Scout) and daughter (11 years old). Is that allowed? Should they be added to the tour permit? Yes, it should be allowed as long as group size is not prohibitive. Scouting activities are always open to parents and siblings. Yes, they should be added to the roster, as they are still the responsibility of leadership. incorrect Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America. If Webelos parents want to bring siblings, they, not the troop, are responsible for them. As such, I would not add them to the tour permit. A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout should be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Webelos den leaders may only have the responsibility for one Webelos Scout. Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips. 8.) A Scout who is just starting organizing his Eagle project has gotten unit approval (his Scoutmaster and Troop commitee both approved his project.) He now need his Council/District approval. Who initiates contact with the Council/ District advancement committee? a) Scoutmaster b) Troop Committee Chair c) Life Scout d) Troop Advancement Chair The Eagle candidate is responsible for approval at ALL levels correct actually, the Eagle candidate is not responsible for approval but he is responsible for initiating contact

You have to make sure you differentiate between "lobbying" and "gossiping." When we go camping the adult leaders (usually myself the SM, the SAs and occasionally the CC) talk about the boys, each other and the "absent" adults in a jovial manner. Is that gossiping? I guess some could conscrue it as such. I jokingingly tell the leaders who don't attend the outings frequently that the majority of individuals who are discussed are not present. Lisabob, what is your position? Are you signing off or an Advancement Chair? If not, don't concern yourself with the scuttlebutt. If you are, just do your part the best way you see fit.

Child labor laws prohibit children under the age of 16 from working over 40 hours per week. Enough said. If you are 14 or 15, you can work . . . Outside school hours (after 7 a.m. and until 7 p.m.) Except from June 1 through Labor Day, when you can work until 9 p.m. You can work no more than: 3 hours on a school day, 18 hours in a school week, 8 hours on a non-school day, and 40 hours in non-school week. For this reason my 15 year old (Life Scout, NYLT SPL, six years of summer camp completed, etc.) was denied an opportunity to be on paid staff this summer. He will turn sixteen one week after summer camp ends. If your camp is working your 15 year old over 40 hrs in a week, they are breaking the law.

I think a few have touched on it but all should abide by it. Equipment should NOT be troop owned (except for a very few items such as a trailer, US Flag, etc.) but be PATROL owned. I don't like the idea of bringing personally owned equipment but it does have some advantages (better care, no problems identifying who the owner is, no responsibility for repairs, etc.). The idea of patrol equipment (tents, patrol boxes, stoves, etc.) is to promote the patrol method. If you do not use the patrol method to its fullest extent, you are not implementing the Scouting program. The patrol method fosters sharing, responsibility, etc. Scouting is a program where the boys are safe to fail. Let them fail! Use it as a learning experience.

Nah, your not stupid. Just like me, you do it for the big buck$! :-)

Once again our societies prejudice against the vulnerable male (having to protect him longer than the female) shines through again! :-)

Good advice Beavah. People seem to forget that our goal as Scouters is not to teach first aid or knots but to build character, foster citizenship and develop fitness.

May I suggest the method they use (used to use?) to teach nurses to give shots: 11) Pair off the boys (buddy system). Have one Scout burn the other Scout and then administer first aid. After completion, reverse roles. Seriously, I don't think the actual method (#4 - #9) is crucial. What I think is crucial is consistency. I hate to have Johnny signed off by doing #4 and two months later require Jimmy to complete #9 to get signed off. In our troop, I'm lucky to have a EMT as an SA. All of our First Aid stuff (all ranks) I funnel through him. Primarily because he is consistent and secondarily because he knows his stuff.

In our council, when we sign up Scouts and Scouters for summer camp we sign up "names" not just heads or slots. So if Johnny was signed up as a member of Troop 123 and he transfered to troop 321 he is still signed up for summer camp. Now, if Johnny raised money while a member Troop 123 and the troop put those funds in his individual scout account, when he left Troop 123 how or if those funds are distributed is entirely up to Troop 123.

We've gone down this parsing of the English language at least a dozen times, especially wrt "should." For those who believe that "should" (like "may") is just a suggestion, guideline, etc. and not a rule; what about: While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community. (The project should benefit an organization other than Scouting.) "Should" is the past tense of "shall" which is not a suggestion but a rule. Pronunciation: sh&l, 'shal Function: verb Inflected Form(s): past should /sh&d, 'shud/; present singular & plural shall Etymology: Middle English shal (1st & 3d sing. present indic.), from Old English sceal; akin to Old High German scal (1st & 3d singular present indicative) ought to, must, Lithuanian skola debt verbal auxiliary 1 archaic a : will have to : MUST b : will be able to : CAN 2 a -- used to express a command or exhortation b -- used in laws, regulations, or directives to express what is mandatory 3 a -- used to express what is inevitable or seems likely to happen in the future b -- used to express simple futurity 4 -- used to express determination intransitive senses, archaic : will go UPDATE Our council now allows us to do advancement reports on-line. Not sure how the signature cycle will work just yet.(This message has been edited by acco40)

Within a five mile radius of where our troop meets there are at least 12 other Boy Scout Troops that I know of that are real strong. There are at least a handful more smaller troops (under 15 or so boys). Over ten percent of the boys in our troop came from other troops. Usually, the adults make that decision in tandem with their sons. It is not a case of districts, COs or others kicking them out but of individuals voting with their feet. Not all troops fit all Scouts. The good news is that there are so many troops in my area that one can find one that suits them with a little effort. However, most Webelos dens go en mass to one troop. The bad news is that from a troop perspective, we constantly are in "recruitment mode" due to the "competition." It really isn't that bad, it keeps us on our toes. But, the past few years we've had as many as 18 new boys join from the Webelos ranks and as few as three. Ideally, I'd like to see 8 (a patrol) each year.

First, and I know I'll get a lot of negative feedback on this, leave his parents out of it. Next, schedule a Scoutmaster Conference with this boy. Explain to him what his leadership responsibilities are - better yet, let him tell you what he feels his leadership responsibilities are. Make sure it goes down in writing. Hold monthly meetings with him and with his input "grade" his performance. One thing I can't stand is absent leadership. If you are going to be an SPL or PL you have to be there! Have him read his Boy Scout Handbook to you. The participation requirement is explained in The Boy Scout Handbook, pg 169 as TO GAIN FULL ADVANTAGE of all Scouting has to offer, you need to be present when things are happening. Take part in meetings, in planning activities, and in the fun of adventures. If youre there, you can do your part to make your patrol and troop a success.

Two deep leadership per vehicle is NOT a BSA requirement. No one-on-one contact with youth (unless you own) IS a BSA requirement. That is a big difference. Many a time, we travel to outings and my sons go but their preference is to ride in the vehicles with built in DVD players (i.e. not dad). So many a time, I've had other boys in my vehicle but never just one (unless they are my own).

I could very well be (I wish the BSA would make those publications available on-line) but mine is at home and I'm at work right now. Kissed the pig at the Plaza lately John?

Don't agree with your synopsis that Cub Scouts is the end all and be all of the BSA. First of all, Cub scouts and Boy Scouts are entirely two different beasts. Cub scouts is a home centered and family program. Boy Scouts is not, it is patrol (not troop!) centered. I've seen many boys thrive in Cubs and dislike Boy Scouts and vice versa. However, your comment that most Boy Scouts were Cubs rings true. We do a lousy job of recruiting boys for BoyScouts who were not Cubs. The emphasis is on Webelos transition and not getting new boys. From a unit perspective, I don't care that much about the BSA enrollment, just the health of our troop. From a district volunteer perspective, I care about numbers but realize that the best recruitment is healthy units. Yes, I'd like to see more support go the "average" units and stop wasting so much resources trying to keep dying, poor units alive. One bad apple can poison the barrel. And how come nobody tried to answer my questions on the previous post?

Only one Boy Scout uniform? I beg to differ. Although less formal, the activity uniform is still considered an official uniform of the BSA, Scouting Magazine May - June issue 2006. Many other official publications of the BSA mention the activity uniform (for example The Scoutmaster Handbook).

If we use the real l o n g name "Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project" may clear up some confusion. For Eagle - providing leadership on the service project is required. On others, it is not. It really is that simple. Now for those who like the English language, because leadership is not required for the other ranks does not mean that it is prohibited. It is not required to wear a hat while performing service (unless one is serving food?) but that does not mean a Scout can't wear a hat while performing service. :-) Personal fitness is an aim of Scouting. However, that does not mean a troop may require a Scout to perform x number of push-ups before on receives his first class rank. Regardless if we feel it is beneficial or helps a Scout meet the aims, we promised to deliver the Scouting program which DOES NOT require leadership from a Star Scout for service nor push-ups for 1st Class.(This message has been edited by acco40)

I do believe in spooks! I do believe in spooks! I do, I do, I do, I do! Believing in something makes it a reality to most. Of course there is such a thing as a Class A uniform. The military uses that term for the "green" uniform (see Army regulation 670-1). Boy Scouts, having had some tie-ins with the military in the past, has seen that jargon slip into its lexicon. Recently, the BSA has done its best to distance its image from that of the military (and hunting) and does not officially use that term although yes, I've seen it as recently as on the 2005 Jambo website (official BSA web site). I don't like the term Class A and use field uniform myself but when I've used "field uniform" without the explanation of what it consists of, some of the parents and boys make the determination that they have heard the term Class A (used much more frequently than Class B) so "field" must mean that "other uniform" (activity) and much confusion arises! I think the BSA should not use either set of terms (Class A & B or Field and Activity) to describe their uniforms. Since the only difference is the shirt (something most forget), why not just state that the boys should be in uniform (almost always) and then state in either their tan (khaki) or other appropriate shirt?

Our council ran NYLT (National Youth Leadership Training or Wood Badge for Scouts in my book). My son served as a troop guide last year. This year he was asked to serve as SPL. He really enjoys it. It seems to be a hard sell to most Scoutmasters however. One week of time is a big committment. Other than my son, the current SPL of our troop is going this summer. I curious to get his feedback on the course.

The SPL directs the PL to have his patrol start preparing dinner. The boys choose to ignore him and continue to play Frisbee. Is that a discipline problem? Should the SM or SPL tell the parents? Is ignoring the SPL or one's Patrol Leader any worse or better than out right defiance of one of the adult leaders? As a Scoutmaster, my "job" is to provide leadership training and to use the eight methods of Scouting to achieve the three aims of Scouting. I happen to know quite a bit about boys in the 10 - 17 year age bracket. The above example is typical of the "teaching" moments I get. Right now, our current SPL is the bossy type and very attentive to detail. At our last outing he wanted the troop to be ready to leave the campsite at 9:00 AM. Well, 9:15 rolled around and dishes still needed to be done, personal gear put away, etc. The boys need to learn how to solve these problems. Most of the boys would love to have adults "take control" and run things. They are not accustomed to being led by their peers (or worse a boy two years younger!). They have to learn to work these things out. Now is a boy brandishes a knife, destroys personal property, etc. - you bet I'll deal with it and keep parents abreast of the situation. Most parents know their sons much better than I. They don't need a minute by minute dissertation of how Johnny behaved on the last outing. If they really want to know - come along!

funscout & Lisabob - as I Scoutmaster I agree with you wholeheartedly! You should be told if your son did something at a scout event that merited discipline. But by whom? Your son of course! Think of it this way. Should the Scoutmaster expect to be told when your son does something that warrants discipline at home?