acco40

And what, pray tell, awards are those? I've got a question, what should a UC do if the CO charges a unit "rent" for the use of their facility? Isn't one of the duties of a CO is to supply a meeting place? Should that be interpreted as "supply a meeting place free of charge?"

A contingent troop is just as much as a troop as your COs troop. Not all troops are run the same way. Getting a different perspective sometimes helps. I believe when I went to Philmont I was told that just like your council probably has a local Scout camp, Philmont also is a "local" Scout camp for those in the northern New Mexico area. Regardless, one may experience Philmont with one's own troop or with a contingent troop/patrol. From my judgement, you've missed much! The National Jamboree is hard to explain. The plain size of the event is a sight to behold. I'll admit, I was somewhat disappointed in the behavior of many of the Scouts (trash, attitude, behavior -but maybe my expectations were too high) but I had a great time and so did the boys in the troop. The experience of Washington DC, military base, huge crowds, special events, etc. all added to the experience for the boys. When I attended Philmont Training Center I brought along my family (wife, two boys and daughter). The program they ran for them was a once in a lifetime experience. They made friends that they still stay in contact with (curse those phone bills!) and will cherish those childhood memories forever. If given a choice between Philmont and Jambo - in my book, Philmont wins hands down. You mentioned that you attended Wood Badge and Roundtable. My Wood Badge patrol (Go Bears!) consisted of folks from another district plus myself. Traditionally, their district hold a Wood Badge "beading" ceremony at their monthly Roundtable. Ours does not. When I attended the ceremony for one of my patrol mates I noticed that just by going to another district, their Roundtables were very different that the way our were conducted. Not really better or worse, just different. Another persepctive was great. Think of it this way. If the only city you ever experienced was Seattle, would there be any benefit from visiting another city?(This message has been edited by acco40)

Venividi - excellent post! I am a SM and currently have in our troop a Scout who has completed all of his requirements for Life except for participation, Scout Spirit, SM conference and BOR. Now, some would say he has met the participation but not SS but either way, he has not finished all requirements. He has attended one camp-out in the past year. He has missed over half of the troop meetings. His service hours were completed on his own (he did not participate in any troop or patrol service projects). He has not been to a meeting, outing, etc. for over two months. His POR was very sporadic, half-hearted, etc. I constantly get email messages from his parents about why he doesn't make meetings - sports, school, family crisis, etc. What I nor his PL nor the SPL have heard from has been the Scout in question. I have responded to his parents frequent inquiries about scheduling a SM conference with a request to have the Scout contact me. Sometimes the Scout is okay with everything, it is just the pushy parents that have a problem. The parents keep telling me how important getting (they never use the term "earning") is wrt to college applications, job interviews etc. I wish the BSA would make a program change and allow the parents of Scouts to earn the Eagle rank. Maybe by doing so some of their energies could be directed appropriately.(This message has been edited by acco40)

From usscouts.org - morally straight. To be a person of strong character, your relationships with others should be honest and open. You should respect and defend the rights of all people. Be clean in your speech and actions, and remain faithful in your religious beliefs. The values you practice as a Scout will help you shape a life of virtue and self-reliance. Now Mr. Lee was open and honest in his relationships (as far as I can tell) - you knew where he stood on political issues! Was he clean in his speech and actions? I'll give him a pass on that one (I don't think the reference is to keeping dirt off of himself and his uniform during battle & encampments). Did he remain faithful in his religious beliefs? Again, I don't know but will give him a pass. Did he respect and defend the rights of all people? Well, I'm not sure but maybe he didn't think of slaves as "people" but as property (like his horse) so he may have to be given a pass there too. Like today, I don't want to hit the hornet's nest with a stick but could an abortion doctor or executioner be thought of as morally straight today? Do they respect and defend the rights of all people? How about President Bush. Do the detainees in Gitmo have any rights that should be respected or defended? Not much real value could come out of debates like these.

Allow me to put on my Grinch hat ... 1) I was appalled at the looting I saw going on in New Orleans. If I was Governor, I'd give a shoot to kill order to the National Guard with respect to looters. 2) It was readily predicted a week in advance that the storm was going to hit and hit hard. Our relief efforts should have been and should be directed at those who left the area as advised. I realize that some did not leave because of the costs involved. We (the nation) should have spent resources aiding those who wanted to leave. For those who decided to stay why are we spending our limited resources on them now? 3) Why do we as a nation feel we can consistently "fool" mother nature? We build cities in areas below sea level. We pave over wetlands, build levees and straighten out rivers and then are surprised when they overflow their banks. We build cities in the desert and divert water from other areas and are surprised that ecological disaster follows. Our ecological acumen is minuscule and our arrogance is enormous. I am not heartless and feel tremendously for those who have lost their homes, business and family members. I've volunteered my time and money to aid those affected. But I do get angry at many peoples attitude. I guarantee that in a few weeks we will hear from many who plan to got right back and rebuild in the exact same location. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.(This message has been edited by acco40)

From: http://www.inquiry.net/ideals/b-p/law.htm More links are found at the bottom of the above referenced page. The Scout Law is based on the 1912 and original 1908 edition of Baden-Powell's Scouting for Boys. It contains the rules which apply to Pathfinders and Scouts the entire world over, and which you promise to obey when you are invested as a Pathfinder. Study it carefully so that you understand the meaning of every point. Traditional Scout Law A Scouts honor is to be trusted. A Scout is loyal. A Scouts duty is be useful and to help others. A Scout is a friend to all, and a brother to every other Scout. A Scout is courteous. A Scout is a friend to animals. A Scout obeys orders. A Scout smiles and whistles under all difficulties. A Scout is thrifty. A Scout is clean in thought, word, and deed.

God may make it difficult for us to approach Him in order to increase our eventual reward. Him? That sounds like a Her to me! I didn't know God played hard to get.

Thanks for letting a few more of us relive our youth. Oh mommy I ain't no commie I'm just doing what I can to live the good all American Way It says right there in the constitution It's really a-okay to have a revolution When the leaders that you choose Really don't fit their shoes Oh mister I ain't no sister I believe in the bill of rights come on don't you start a fight Please I like to wear my hair long How can there be anything wrong When you already cussed me twice Of looking like Jesus Christ Hallelujah I'm only gettin' tired of playing Punch and Judy I'm really half a mind a go and do my duty Like Mr. Patrick Henry said I got to be free or dead Mr. Nixon I ain't a fixin' To speak Spanish on a plane or polish off the Liberty Bell I just want to sit here on the shelf And watch you finish off the place by yourself Please let me do what I wanna I'll just lay around the house and smoke Marijuana oohoo It says right there in the constitution It's really a-okay to have a revolution When the leader that you made Just don't make the grade Oh mommy I ain't no commie But I hate to bust your bubble cause there's gonna be some trouble Soon

it is worn in a different location as a Boy Scout (below pocket) than as a Cub Scout (above pocket)." (acco40) Could you please clarify? What is worn above the pocket as a Cub? (FScouter) Yea, my response does need clarification. While a Cub Scout (not many wear the AOL is the CS program because many receive the award right before crossing over) it is worn on the left pocket flap centered over the button (kind of "quasi" above the pocket).

it is worn in a different location as a Boy Scout (below pocket) than as a Cub Scout (above pocket).

What? That means I have to take off my "Me & My Guy" patch that I "earned" when my daughter and I did a weekend camp at a GSUSA camp. Now, would I wear that patch just to poke fun at some stuffy BSA honchos? Of course not.

In todays (Friday) Detroit Free Press there is a Scout cartoon that is somewhat of an editorial. I'll see if I can find a link. http://www.freep.com/features/comics/index.htm I'm not sure the name of the comic (it is not a very popular one). Maybe if someone found the comic they could help me with the link (it is blocked at work where I currently sit). The comic has three frames and the son comes home from his first Scout meeting beaming and happy but the mom still thinks of the BSA as a place for bigots. The "humor" comes across better in the strip.

Let me know when you all find the answers. Many of us will be waiting on pins and needles for the response. P.S. Those needles sure get crowded with all those angels around.

Rooster, let me get this straight, so if a young lad, who joined the BSA to develop character, citizenship and physical fitness took it to heart and became a devout Christian, against his parents wishes, you would determine, at his BOR that he was NOT doing his duty to God because he was not following his parents wishes?

Yes, PNW makes a good point. A few years ago we had three new Webelos Scouts join our troop. They were NOT put into a new NSP but folded into a patrol of boys who were one year older. The next year we had about sixteen Webelos Scouts join and they formed two NSPs. One year later the NSP label was removed and they are now "regular" patrols - not melded into existing patrols.

Of course, what is a "BSA t-shirt?" At Jambo recently, I saw a youth with a solid blue t-shirt except for two simple words printed across the chest is block letters: "Scout related." I thought it was hilarious.

How many other private organizations are chartered by the US Congress?

"The Boy Scout oath includes a pledge to "do my best to do my duty to God and my country" but doesn't specify which god." Like the Pledge of Allegiance (written by a socialist), pre-1924, it doesn't specify which country either. Like the Pledge of Allegiance, which changed, "I pledge allegiance to my flag, and to the republic ..." to "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America ..." should the Boy Scouts of America change the BS Oath to "do my best to do my duty to God and the United States of America"? The BSA used to require US citizenship for adult leaders; they no longer do. Now the article states that no Muslim services were offered at Jambo. I can state that maybe it was because no Muslim offered up his services for religious leadership? Showing no preference for Christianity, almost all of the Christian denomination religious service locations were changed from what was indicated on the map and for myself I thought that Jambo was a perfect venue to take my son to a service that was not of his denomination (Methodists are not THAT different from Catholics no matter what his mother says! ;-) By the way, the Buddhist service had to be moved because of overflowing crowds. Many curious Scouts swelled their ranks.(This message has been edited by acco40)

If you can read these posts - thank a teacher. If you can read these posts in English, thank a soldier. Merlyn's point, my point, and the point of the ACLU is simply that public funds should not be spent on private organizations, regardless of how we feel about those private organizations.

First, how about ideas for the 2006 program year! Your Scoutmaster should be a tremendous aid in this process. There are five basic steps in the annual planning process: 1) Do Your Homework, 2) Get Patrol Input, 3) Conduct the Annual Troop Program Planning Conference, 4) Obtain Troop Committee Support, and last, 5) Distribute Information. The "Do Your Homework" process should be done primarily by the Scoutmaster. These tasks should include: 1) Gather district, council, school and CO dates for events that will effect the troop; 2) Review resources needed to plan the annual program; 3) Review the advancement status of each Scout; 4) List goals for the troop (advancement, equipment, quality unit, membership growth, etc.); and finally - 5) Review the program features available to the troop. Only after the homework is done & patrol input gathered should you begin the planning conference. Don't look at it as "where do we want to go" but "what does the troop wish to accomplish and THEN what outings/activities would support those desires. Good luck!

There is a fine line between "boy led" and "boy led into the ground." As volunteers, we have signed up to deliver the Scouting promise. It is our job to mentor and teach our youth to become leaders and make sure that promise is upheld.

pamchuckm duplicate posts - the posts must be linked because I deleted one and both got deleted! (Proving what Fscouter posted was accurate).

What am I missing here? The requirement three for the merit badge states: 3) Before doing the following requirements, successfully complete Second Class rank requirements 7a-7c and First Class rank requirements 9a-9c. Second Class rank requirements: (7a) Tell what precautions must be taken for a safe swim. (7b) Demonstrate your ability to jump feet first into water over your head in depth, level off and swim 25 feet on the surface, stop, turn sharply, resume swimming, then return to your starting place. (7c) Demonstrate water rescue methods by reaching your arm or leg, by reaching with a suitable object, and by throwing lines and objects. Explain why swimming rescues should not be attempted when a reaching or throwing rescue is possible, and explain why and how a rescue swimmer should avoid contact with the victim. First Class rank requirements: (9a) Tell what precautions should be taken for a safe trip afloat. (9b) Before doing the following requirements, successfully complete the BSA swimmer test: Jump feet first into water over your head in depth, swim 75 yards in a strong manner using one or more of the following strokes: sidestroke, breaststroke, trudgen, or crawl; then swim 25 yards using an easy, resting backstroke. The 100 yards must be swum continuously and include at least one sharp turn. After completing the swim, rest by floating. (9c) With a helper and a practice victim, show a line rescue both as tender and as rescuer. The practice victim should be approximately 30 feet from shore in deep water. So if the Swimming merit badge is to be earned, those requirements need to be met. Changing tense, if the Swimming MB has been earned, the requirements have been met. Is your question who (MB counselor or Troop Leader) decides if the 2nd and 1st Class requirements have been met? The answer is that the troop makes that determination. They may make that determination by testing the Scout themselves or by going on the word of the MB counselor if he/she puts the Scout through their paces so to speak.

Crossed up? Crossed over! Don't think of Boy Scouts as being "above" Cub Scouts (as so many do). Welcome to the forum! It could use more GS input.

Vive la difference. There use to be a reason that men would wear trousers and women dresses. It seems to be lost on most now. I saw a few BSA skirts at Jambo this year and thought they looked superb. They are made out of the same material as the pants/shorts.(This message has been edited by acco40)