acco40

Let's see - schools want kids out of their jurisdiction during non-school time. Communities no longer have sidewalks or vacant lots. Children don't know how to organize their own "sandlot" sports activities - it was always mom or dad who signed them up for "organized" soccer, baseball, ballet, karate, football, basketball, etc. Skateboarding is deemed to be the activity of juvenile delinquents. Music (mp3), computer gaming, even watching video (TV, DVD, etc.) are now individual activities and not group activities. And we wonder why our kids don't get enough exercise?

Baden-Powell had a phrase for teens who want to fit in with a group - Goth or whatever. He called it the patrol method. Now for some rash generalizations. Teenagers feel alienated. They "join" groups to feel like they belong. It could be constructive groups (Scouts, sports teams, high school band, robotics club, etc.) or destructive (Crips, Bloods, truants, drug abusers, etc.). It is our job as adults (parents, teachers, mentors, grandparents, etc.) to try and make them gravitate to constructive groups. Is the "Goth" look in and of itself bad or good? No.

A Unit may not make participation "mandatory" for an outing, COH, fundraiser or anything else. It may have consequences if one does not participate. The original question did not concern amounts just a principle. In our unit, we participated in the Trails End program for the past five years or so. I was tired of the same people raising the funds for the troop and the same individuals not lifting a finger to help. I was not interested in excuses - I don't allow my boys to go door to door, we are too busy to participate in store sales, etc. So as a unit (the committee) made the following decision. One was expected to meet a sales goal (or quota or whatever you wanted to call it). All sales profits above that goal went in to individual Scout accounts. The Scout would need to make up the difference between the sales he produced and the sales goal. In other words, one could participate or open up their check book. Perfectly ethical, reasonable and workable in my view.

Two married ADULT Venture crew members may share a tent. A husband and wife, both 20, both Venture Crew members may not share a tent because in the eyes of the BSA they are not adults.

What position do you hold? If SM, in the future, deal with the youth, not the parent(s). If a committee member (registration or advancement), show the mother the "rules." If you get heat from the mom, direct her to the district advancement chair.

Advancement is recognized in triplicate, including an immediate recognition. See below: After passing the Board of Review, you will be recognized in front of the troop as soon as possible. That my friend is the "immediate" and first type of recognition. You will receive your new rank patch shortly after, usually at the next troop meeting. That is recognition #2. You will be formally recognized for your rank advancements and merit badges in front of family and friends during a ceremony at a Court of Honor. At this time you will be presented with your wallet-sized certificate card and, if your troop presents them, a rank pin ("mothers pin"). Most troops schedule four Courts of Honor each year. Your parents, other family members, and friends are invited and encouraged to attend all Courts of Honor. And thus, recognition #3 is accomplished.

Let's see ... Never been a judge (just like Renquist) Does have strong religious views (believes Bush is God). I say go for it! Actually, since I just observe on this (no one will ask me for my vote on this) I have not really followed it closely. But, I'll miss Sandy.

Who signs off on Bear requirements? (The Scouts Akela - i.e. Den Leader, Parent, Principal, Teacher, etc.) Where is this proverbial "double dipping" disclaimer listed in the BSA literature?

Units can have an Activity uniform, but it does not replace the Field uniform as the "Official Uniform". I believe an activity uniform is just as official as the field uniform they are just worn for different occasions.

A year ago I suggested to our two "regular" (as opposed to NSP or Venture) patrols that they could have a patrol outing without adults. "Cool!", was the response. What we did was camp at a neighboring council camp and those two patrols were at a different site that the adult leaders and two other NSP patrols. We made a visit in the evening and once in the morning but otherwise left them alone. They loved it and so did I. Let the boys have as much responsibility as they can handle!

With two teenage boys, I think the BSA should adopt a new "uniform" look. The new uniform should be made mandatory and consist of jeans worn, as a minimum, at least six inches below the navel, boxer shorts, worn as a minimum, two inches above the navel, sneakers with the requirement that the laces are kept untied and a T-shirt with no politically correct words which must no be tucked in but must be at least one size too big. My reasoning you may ask? If the BSA makes the above the official uniform I can rest assured that my sons and the boys in our troop would rarely, if ever wear the complete uniform again.

There is a fine line between boy run (or led) and abdicating our own leadership roles as adults. Boy run does not mean boy run into the ground. On the other hand, if a boy does not prepare and puts in very little effort, we as adults can't keep bailing them out either, we have to LET the boys fail in a safe environment. To answer the original question, I've made the following available to our boys on the PLC: Patrol Leaders Council Agenda Date: _______ Opening SPL will call the meeting to order and take roll call (the scribe will record). The scribe reads the minutes of the last meeting. Give everyone a chance to comment or make changes if necessary. When correct, have someone move and someone else second a motion to approve the minutes. The members show their approval by saying Aye. NOTES:_________ Patrol Leader Reports Ask each patrol leader for his patrol report. Each patrol leader reports on progress his patrol has made since last meeting. The patrol leader will also report on advancements. NOTES:_________ Old Business Discuss items that were to be worked on between meetings. Discuss anything left undone after the last meeting. Get progress reports on tasks assigned to troop leaders, patrols, etc. NOTES:_______________ Program/Meeting Planning Take this time to plan the next troop meeting or work on planning several troop meetings. Patrol leaders should be able to give their patrols suggestions. Use the Troop Meeting Plan Sheets from Troop Program Features and fill out the Program Planning Grid. Complete one sheet for each Troop Meeting and Outing Program Plan. NOTES:__________ New Business New ideas, items held over from last month for a decision, assign jobs to be worked on until the next meeting. Get ideas from everyone. NOTES:_________ Scoutmasters time Offer a moment for the Scoutmaster to make comments. NOTES:____________ Troop Meeting Planning 7:00 8:30 (90 minutes) Pre-Opening (6:30 7:00) A Service Patrol is assigned to each Troop meeting. This patrol is in charge of setting up the meeting (getting flags, arranging chairs, etc.) and cleaning up after the meeting. A pre-opening game should be planned to keep Scouts occupied until the meeting starts. This will also encourage Scouts to arrive early (instead of late). Opening (7:00 7:05) SPL calls meeting to order (on time!) instructing Scouts to gather by patrol Service Patrol also performs opening ceremony opening should vary each week (pre-determined list of openings will help) Announcements (SPL and/or Patrol Leaders) Patrol Meetings (5-15 Minutes) SPL will announce that it is time for patrol meetings. Each patrol will gather in a predetermined area. Each patrol leader takes charge of his patrols meeting. Attendance Collecting dues or fees Planning patrols involvement in upcoming event Selecting menus (Notice this is selecting not making) Assigning patrol members to specific tasks Working out any other details for upcoming outings or responsibilities. Skills Instruction (15-30 Minutes) This part of the meeting might focus on skills Scouts will need in order to fully participate in an upcoming activity, or upon skills they must have to complete requirements for advancement. Instruction should be varied by experience level: Junior Scouts, Experienced Scouts, and Older Scouts. Instruction should be hands-on learning rather than lecturing. Those leading the sessions should be troop instructors with expertise in a particular area, adult scout leaders or outside experts. Interpatrol Activity (15-20 Minutes) Lead by SPL, allows all patrols to interact in a competition or cooperative effort. The activity might be a game that tests the skills Scouts are learning for an upcoming activity (race to set up a tent properly or to tie a set of knots correctly) Closing Scoutmaster announcements (including reminder of who is next weeks Service Patrol) Advancement Recognition Troop Recognition Scoutmaster Minute After the Meeting Service Patrol puts away flags, file folders and restores room to original condition. SPL meets with PLC members and Scoutmaster to review the meeting, review plans made at PLC Meeting Evaluation Answer Meeting Evaluation Answer Did we accomplish a purpose? Was the meeting fast paced and fun? Was the meeting well attended? Did we do something new and different? What worked well that we could do again? ***IMPORTANT*** Troop meeting planning should also include listing any materials needed. The pre-opening Activity. Who is in charge? The SPL! He may delegate the running of it to an ASPL or a Patrol leader. What sort of activity will it be? I like an activity that allows the Scouts to get rid of some surplus energy, allows for people to arrive early and still be doing a planned activity. If you don't plan it every meeting will start with Scouts just milling about or worse, arriving late. If it fits in with the theme, that's great, but the important thing is for it to be fun! Have the SPL take a look at: http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/direct/games/index.php?ID=97. There are a lot of ideas there. If possible try and play one at the PLC. The SM should do what he can to prompt the SPL to try new games and new ideas. The Opening. Again the SPL is in charge. It can be very simple, but does need to be planned. We have so much material available that has to do with the Flag and Citizenship, to just do the Scout Oath and Law every week takes away from the true meaning of the Oath and Law. Skill Instruction. If the Patrol Leaders need help this can be done at the PLC meeting. The SPL informs the Patrol Leaders what skills they will be covering and where they will find the information that they need to cover that skill, if the SM knows that a Patrol Leader is not up to snuff on this he becomes a resource and works with that Patrol Leader or group to get them up to speed. In the case of the New Scout Patrol, the ASM or Troop Guide will work with these Lads. If the skill is something brand new or is beyond the capabilities of the Patrol Leaders then the Leaders might want to work with the Patrols, in this case maybe a round robin might be an idea. The Patrol Meeting. At this time the Patrols should simply work on Patrol stuff. It might be making something or preparing something. Or both. Making plans for the weekend activity needs to be covered, but Scouts can be assigned things to bring back to the next meeting, things like menus and equipment lists. These can be covered very quickly. A lot will depend on the age of the Scouts in the Patrol. They could work on making a knot board or preparing the route for a hike. The Patrol meeting is not "Free time". The SPL will need to drive that point home at each and every PLC meeting. The Scouts SHOULD NOT be meandering over to mom or dad during this activity to ask questions. The SAs assigned to each patrol along with the SM will need to support the PL's in keeping the Patrol on task and be ready to help if asked. If a Patrol is in over their head, the SM might ask the SPL if he thinks that the Patrol is doing okay. The SPL might see that the Patrol members are not getting it. This is causing them to get frustrated and this in turn is leading up to some of the Patrol members messing around. Let the SPL then determine when you, the adult, should step in. The Inter-Patrol Activity. This could be some sort of competition. Build a Sedan Chair and then have a race or they could have built the chair as part of the Patrol meeting. An Orienteering course that spells a word, the stuff that can be done is endless. Maybe in the early days you might want to ask a SA too work with the SPL on planning this depending on the activity he might or might not want to let the Patrol Leaders know what it is ahead of time. The Closing. It is very important that a meeting has an opening and a closing. I find that announcements are a pain. These can be done by the Patrol Leaders at the Patrol meeting. They have all the information from the PLC meeting. A troop newsletter informs the parents. The Scoutmaster gets a minute and no more than three minutes. The troop is dismissed and the Scoutmaster and PLC members meet for a quick reflection on the meeting that they just had. What worked and what didn't? SPL hands out the meeting plan for next week and makes sure that everyone knows what they are doing and when they are doing it. It is important that the plan is written down and that everyone knows that the SPL and the SM are available to answer any questions and will help. If everyone is a little lost there might be a meeting planned for during the week or everyone will arrive a little early next week. Leadership is learned in lots of little steps. Sure we have some really good courses that cover what the skills are, and knowing what is required is a big step. Communication or the getting and giving of information needs to be practiced. It can be helped by adults telling Scouts "Did you ask your Patrol Leader?" (This message has been edited by acco40)

My first trip to Europe/England was in my twenties. I flew non-stop from St. Louis to London (Gatwick) in mid January. As we descended to land I was struck by how truly green the United Kingdom looked from the sky - even in January. The Gulf stream really does do wonders from a land that is about as far north as central Canada.

Wow. I don't know what to say. I used to celebrate "Sun" day and then the Christians made me co-opt to celebrate the Sabbath! (Sun-day!) What was a happy Pagan holiday was taken over by those immigrant Christians who invaded my country in 1492! The Roman Catholic church decided to try to redeem a Roman pagan winter solstice festival: the festival of Saturnalia. This December holiday was considered the "birthday of the unconquered sun." Romans danced in the streets with gifts under their arms and greenery atop their heads. Now, that is all lost and everyone celebrates Christsmas (Christ-mass) instead. I wish these interlopers would quit forcing these things on me!

The wording below appears in the 2003 Boy Scout Requirements Book (#33215F). The introductory text in the book reads as follows: This certification grants a Scout the right to carry and use woods tools. The Scout must show his Scout leader, or someone designated by his leader, that he understands his responsibility to do the following: 1) Read and understand woods tools use and safety rules from the Boy Scout Handbook. 2) Demonstrate proper handling, care, and use of the pocket knife, ax, and saw. 3) Use the knife, ax, and saw as tools, not playthings. 4) Respect all safety rules to protect others. 5) Respect property. Cut living and dead trees only with permission and with good reason. 6) Subscribe to the Outdoor Code. The Scout's "Totin' Rights" can be taken from him if he fails in his responsibility. {Emphasis is mine.} The wording on the back of the Totin' Chip Card is slightly different, but the requirements are the same (except the introduction and the last part of number 3): My Responsibility I will take this card to my Scout leader or someone designated by my leader and do the following: 1) Read and understand woods tools use and safety rules from the Boy Scout Handbook. 2) Demonstrate proper handling, care, and use of the pocket knife, ax, and saw. 3) Use the knife, ax, and saw as tools, not playthings. Use them only when you are willing to give them your full attention. 4) Respect all safety rules to protect others. 5) Respect property. Cut living and dead trees only with permission and with good reason. 6) Subscribe to the Outdoor Code. The BSA issues a patch with a saw, knife and axe with the words of TOTIN' CHIP on it with a Fleur de lis. It is shaped like a pocket flap. Some other councils issue their own pocket flaps for totin' chip. Local councils may approve patches for wear. The OA is very sensitive to insignia other than their own lodge flaps going on the right pocket flap (for obvious reasons). The insignia guide does not state specifically that something may not be worn on the right pocket flap or conversely about wearing something on the flap. Now, what to do if a Scout has earned the Totin' Chip card but violates a rule? As Scoutmaster, I reserve the right to take away his Totin' "rights" if he fails in his responsibility. I don't do this by cutting corners (more of a warning) or removing his card. I do it by verbal means alone. I also give the Scout the opportunity to "re-earn" his rights.

I'm afraid I agree with John-in-KC about the youth / youth part of YP needs to be beefed up. I noticed at the National Jamboree that many of the older youth were intimidating some of the younger Scouts in the shower areas. The older kids know that they have a virtual sanctuary from adult supervising due to YP rules wrt adult / youth. From my perspective, only inches away in the adult showers, I could hear but not make visual contact. I made some verbal "suggestions" quite loudly but to no avail. This is an area where solutions are needed. Suggestions?

FScouter hit the nail on the head. I ask the boys to get approval beforehand from me (the SM) but that is more to protect them and is not a requirement. I know our district advancement chair gives the advice that the service should be "above and beyond" what is normally done by the Scout. I agree somewhat. BW, somewhere on this vast forum, has some good words on the purpose of service and why these are requirements in the first place.

Sure, why not? Now, if a youth (Webelos) visited our troop with his den and his mom and his dad and received a SM conference at the meeting I'd say he met the two reqs stated by SWScouter. If we really wanted to get technical, I'd have to ask who arranged the meeting. :-) After you have completed all five of the above requirements, and after a talk with your Webelos den leader, arrange to visit, with your parent or guardian, a meeting of a Boy Scout troop you think you might like to join. Have a conference with the Scoutmaster.

Why no cotton? The human body generates heat. The outside air in winter is cold. Needed, good insulation. Avoid conductors. Water, also generated by humans, is a good conductor. Cotton, absorbs water. If it then comes in contact with human, i.e skin, the human gets cold. Science project: Why does a ten degree tree feel so much warmer than a ten degree metal flag pole? Boots? Thinsulate? Felt liners? A combo? Thinsulate. Felt is cotton. Coat? Down? Fiberfill? Hooded? Down - expensive. Fiberfill - cheaper. Both good insulators. The brain needs lots of energy which it gets from blood. Because of this, human lose much body heat via their head so keep it covered. I tell our Scouts if their fingers are cold - put on a hat. If their toes are cold - put on a hat. Mittens? Gloves? Mittens are warmer. Gloves are more functional. I have a pair of rag-wool gloves with a slip over "mitten thingy." I wear over glove liners. Long underwear and shirt? YES! Ski pants? necessary? Water / wind barrier needed (especially if snow is present). Enough science. One thing I tell the Scouts is the dorkier it looks, the better chance it has for keeping one warm!(This message has been edited by acco40)

I've been a Webelos Den leader and am currently a Scoutmaster. Here is my take on that requirement. 1) First, I don't sign off on Webelos requirements. That responsibility resides with the Webelos den leader. I have written notes, explaining that I have performed a SM conference with a Webelos Scout but do not sign his book. 2) I try to make the SM conference as close to as possible to those I give in the troop. A SM conference should be one on one (within the guidelines of G2SS) and I let the Scout ask questions of me, ask what the Scouts goals are, tell him about Boy Scouts in general, etc. They usually last about five minutes. 3) If a whole den visits our troop, I will let the boys experience a troop meeting as Scouts and I will usually talk to their parents in another room. Time doesn't allow for a SM conference with 6 - 8 or more boys visiting. However, I have traveled to a den meeting to perform SM conferences with Scouts and have also had conferences with Webelos Scouts on outings and even right before a Blue and Gold banquet that the boy was being presented his AOL!

As a moderator (who did not weigh in on the recent suspensions) I look at how a message is delivered more than the message itself. In my book, I disagree somewhat with the message that our friend Merlyn delivers but not with how he delivers it. I think it is the Rush Limbaugh factor for many of us. I'm a political conservative but Rush is an entertainer (for some) who generates much of his entertainment value from his delivery style, not his content. So yes, a suspension for arguing makes more sense to me than a suspension for someone who presents an idea that we simply don't agree with.(This message has been edited by acco40)

The meaning of "active" has been debated ad infinitum on this forum. Second only to the issue of the "troop bylaws" issue I share the following to inflame all. In our Boy Scout troop we share the following with the parents and Scouts. I welcome all comments. PARTICIPATION Participation is essential to advancement and the requirements are clearly defined in the Boy Scout Handbook for the ranks of Tenderfoot through First Class Scout. Participation requirements for Star, Life, and Eagle are listed, but not as specifically defined. The requirements for these ranks are as follows: Tenderfoot: Spend at least one night on a patrol or troop campout. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch on a ground bed you have prepared. Second Class: Since joining, have participated in five separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), two of which included camping overnight. First Class: Since joining, have participated in ten separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight. Star: Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 4 months as a First Class Scout. Life: Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 6 months as a Star Scout. Eagle: Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 6 months as a Life Scout. For the ranks of Star, Life, and Eagle a requirement of be active exists. What does be active mean? It goes beyond just being registered. It means that you are an active, contributing member of your Patrol and Troop. This requirement is explained in The Boy Scout Handbook, pg 169 as TO GAIN FULL ADVANTAGE of all Scouting has to offer, you need to be present when things are happening. Take part in meetings, in planning activities, and in the fun of adventures. If youre there, you can do your part to make your patrol and troop a success. However, it does not state specific attendance levels. Maybe you are very active in the Order of the Arrow, attending all functions and even serving in a leadership capacity. Your Scoutmaster may not accept that as meeting the participation requirement. Likewise, you may be serving on camp staff all summer and busy during the fall with the start of school, sports, and/or a job. But, if you are not being a participating member, leader and example in your patrol and troop, your Scoutmaster may not accept your performance for this requirement. So what do you do if life has you running a hundred miles an hour? Talk to your Scoutmaster. To avoid disappointment, find out what he sees as acceptable performance before you start working on these ranks. If necessary, use those leadership skills you're developing to negotiate an acceptable arrangement. You'll be glad you did! Generally, to advance, you should participate as follows for the designated 4 or 6 month period: Weekly Meetings: you should participate in more than half of the weekly troop meetings. Campouts: you should participate in more than half of the campouts/outings. Other Troop Activities (parades, fundraisers, service projects, PLC meetings, etc.): you should participate in at least half of these activities. Again, if you cannot meet these participation requirements, for your own benefit, discuss your situation with the Scoutmaster before, not after the fact. ------------------------------------------------ Now, we don't address participation for Eagle palms but I suspect we would treat it the same as the Eagle participation requirement except for changing the six months to three months. Again, I entertain your comments.

Wow, now I'm really confused. Has Cub Scouts really changed that much since I left that program? As the cubmaster I decided that the pack would take a trip to the local newspaper for a tour, because it met the monthly theme. What? Cub Scouts and Webelos have different themes. A Pack does not have a single monthly theme like a Boy Scout troop. A Cubmaster acts as the emcee at a Pack meeting. The Pack meeting should highlight what the different dens have been working on for the past month. Yes, the Cubmaster works directly with the Tiger Cub Coach, Den Leaders, and Pack Committee Chair to make sure all the dens are functioning properly and plans the den & Pack programs with the help of other leaders but does not dictate to the den leaders what they should be doing.

mbscoutmom, I respectfully disagree with a few points of your post. directs pack in absence of Cubmaster Not sure what you mean by "directs" but the assistant Cubmaster takes over for the Cubmaster in his/her absence, not the Committee Chair. One thing that is different now from years ago - den leaders and the cubmaster are now part of the pack committee. That was not the case in days past. So, because the CC oversees the committee, which the cubmaster is part of, it may seem that their duties overlap. I like to think of the Cubmaster / CC like the relationship on most network news these days. The Cubmaster is the "talking head" (eloquent, easy on the eyes, good public speaker, etc.) emcee of the Pack meetings and the CC is the "journalistic brains" behind what the man on TV says. Somewhat simplistic but remember, the unit leader in Cub Scouts is the CC, not the Cubmaster.

First it is important to know what the Pack Committee is supposed to do: 1) Ensure That the Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts Receive a Year-Round Quality Program 2) Make Recommendations to the Chartered Organization for Final Approval of Pack Leadership 3) Recruit the Cubmaster and One or More Assistant Cubmasters 4) Supervise Finances and Equipment 5) Help Stimulate the Interest of Parents Through Proper Programming Here is a list of responsibilities for Committee Chair: 1) Cubmasters Chief Adviser 2) Maintain Close Relationship with Chartered Organization 3) Supervise Pack Committee Operation 4) Assign Duties to, and Training Committee Members 5) Conduct Annual Pack Program Planning Conference 6) Approve Bills Before Payment by Pack Treasurer 7) Ask the Committee to Assist with Recommendations For Cubmaster, Assistant Cubmaster(s), Den Leader Coaches, Webelos Den Leaders and Den Leaders, as needed