InquisitiveScouter

Transformational...hmmm 1. Want quality local leaders? Find a way to incentivize it. The program is sufficiently complex that, to do it well requires more time and knowledge than the average group of people can devote as volunteers. Imagine a sort of professional Scoutmaster/teacher role... 2. Council and National senior position term limits. Five years as SE (etc.) and then out. Would require looking at career progression and making some sense of this. Maybe board limits, too, but probably a longer term. 3. Subsidize costs of adult training and support. (see #1) (Learn to apply for grant money for this.) For example, it's just idiotic that you want me to volunteer my time and expertise at a National Jamboree, and then pay you for the privilege. No thanks... 4. Have a Chief Scout (see separate thread...I love this idea from @RememberSchiff) https://www.scouter.com/topic/32886-what-if-we-dropped-chief-scout-executive-and-brought-back-chief-scout/?tab=comments#comment-536720 5. Allow youth up to 25 to earn Eagle Scout. 6. Bring in (or back) a cumulative knowledge and skills requirement. Stop the "one and done" for critical Scout and life skills. Allow Boards of Review to test Scout knowledge and skills for ranks as you go up the ladder.

Yes, you are very likely correct. My gut says another likely scenario is that the bankruptcy fails due to negative votes of claimants, judge not ordering a cramdown, and existing lawsuits (currently on hold) proceeding (with more likely to be filed) after the Chapter 11 proceedings are abandoned. Chapter 7 is definitely still a contender, sooner rather than later. Two to three years maybe... If Chapter 7, then what for the 200+ separate corporate council entities? Corporations without a united identity...will a coalition of a few powerful band together to form a more perfect union? Yhat will be a confusing mess for the years following Ch 7.

So, Genesis 18:16 is the start of that story...and Abraham pled mercy from God to not destroy it if 50/45/40/30/20/10 righteous in the city could be found. God continually relented and agreed if ten could be found, he would not destroy it. Abraham did not plead lower than that. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. So, I'm having a little trouble with the analogy to your situation. Do you see yourself as Abraham, pleading with God on behalf of the city? Or do you see yourself as one of the ten (or the one), on whose account the city will be saved? Not to put too fine a point on it...be careful, because you yourself violate the rules from time to time. Guaranteed. There are such a massive amount of rules, policies and prohibitions in Scouting, that is is impossible to completely adhere to all of them in all situations. I know and adhere to the rules as best I can. Do I sometimes respond to a Scout's email without including another adult? Yes, from time to time, it happens, as I get possibly a hundred a month. Not intentionally... Have there been times when I was the only adult left at the meeting waiting for parents to pick up? Yes, but my son has always been there for no one-on-one. Still, a technical violation of two-deep. I hope you get the picture... This is where grace, mercy, and forgiveness come in. Do not be a martinet. This might be why things don't work out well (from your story)... People make mistakes, or find themselves in situations where they didn't intend to be. Learn to admonish and correct with love... and be aware of your own shortcomings. Looking for a Biblical idea to fit your bill? Maybe Ezekiel 22:30, "“I looked for someone among them who would build up the wall and stand before me in the gap on behalf of the land so I would not have to destroy it, but I found no one. 31 So I will pour out my wrath on them and consume them with my fiery anger, bringing down on their own heads all they have done, declares the Sovereign Lord.” So much there to unpack...but I'll simply ask you to build up the wall and stand in the gap. Ahoalton

Why, yes, I could do that. Would prefer to do it with a musk ox, though, as we have those in Alaska...

And at least my wife thinks I'm handsome...

I'd do it. And I have the pedigree, the time, and a healthy dose of skepticism when dealing with the professional side 😜 Cover my expenses for travel, meals, accommodations, uniforms, etc. to fulfill the role, and I'm in...

Not if you are shot out of a cannon!! Enough initial velocity, and you could wrap around that bar no problem...of course, the force required to get to that velocity would probably injure the rider... Now, to help that kid in the video, he had the counterweight on top...no such thing on the chain swing...

Yikes! At $500K per (or five years in the hoosegow, pokey, slammer, etc.) that could potentially bump up the victim fund. But, I believe, since this is a federal court, monies from fines imposed only go to the US Treasury, and, so, only Congress could direct the disposition of those penalties to fund the fund. Good luck with that! Literally, an Act of Congress.

@SiouxRanger, Where you stand depends on where you sit 😜 The correct answer, from where I sit (at the unit level), is that the CO owns everything, and ultimately decides the disposition of all property and money. I'll elaborate on that, so that others can dissect the argument if they wish. From a legal standpoint (I'm no lawyer, but I actually did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express a few nights ago!), only persons and corporations can legally own property. Therefore, some corporation owns that property, including the money. Only two corporations (hopefully) can make a claim to yours, your CO and the local council. Take one piece of property in particular: your Troop trailer. Since that is a motor vehicle titled in your state, that state-issued title establishes ownership. Look at the title, and tell us who is the titular owner? (It should be your CO.) That is the only entity the state will recognize with claim to that property, and whose rights the state will uphold regarding it. (NOTE for all: if any of your troop's trailers, vehicles, or land is titled to an individual, you should take steps to correct that.) You can look at another example with money (or goods) through another question: If someone makes a cash donation to your Troop (or a donation of goods), and they ask for a receipt for tax purposes, who gives them that receipt, and what entity's EIN is on the receipt so the donor can legally claim that on their federal taxes? (NOTE: only the organization name is required on the receipt, not the EIN, but it helps ) https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/charitable-contributions-written-acknowledgments "A donor cannot claim a tax deduction for any contribution of cash, a check or other monetary gift unless the donor maintains a record of the contribution in the form of either a bank record (such as a cancelled check) or a written communication from the charity (such as a receipt or letter) showing the name of the charity, the date of the contribution and the amount of the contribution." Technically, you cannot write "Troop XX" on the receipt, since that is not the "name of the charity." We have always written the EIN (and name) of our chartering organization on on receipts for donations (with coordination, understanding, and permission.) This establishes "ownership" of those goods and cash. (We provide copies of any receipts to the CO for their tax purposes also. If you were to write "Boy Scouts of America" on the receipt, then, technically, you'd have to turn those goods or cash over to national for use; if you wrote "George Washington Council" on the receipt, then you'd have to turn over those goods or monies over to council for their use. SO, if the Troop should cease operations, the local council has zero "claim" to that property. It's all under the CO. This is the established pattern of behavior we have followed, with substantial documentation to demonstrate. (Side NOTE: check your bank account info also!! Your bank account should (or must?) have an EIN associated with it on file at the bank. We use our CO's. If you have used your local council's EIN, then, the council could "claim" those funds should the Troop cease.) A positive experience: Our Troop recently changed CO's (within the past two years). Things were a bit tangled. The CO was a PTO at a local elementary school (up to sixth grade), but the relationship was not strong, as most of our Scouts no longer attended the school, and the Troop rarely met there, because the local school district charged fees for each usage, which became burdensome. We located a church who wished to own a Troop, and got a signed Memorandum of Agreement from the PTO to move the Troop number, gear, and monies (indicated by bank name and account number, not amount 😛) to the new organization. The Troop trailer was titled to a Committee Chair from years past, so we had to work to transfer this to the new CO (somewhat costly). For the bank account, we simply showed the MOA to the bank to change the info on the account. And we also provided the MOA with the new Charter Agreement to our local council, so we could retain the historic Troop number (and our tenure!). This made the transition smooth. It took a good deal of coordination, even though all parties were amenable to the move. A negative experience: A local crew did not recharter. Their CO elected to keep the Troop trailer (it was titled in their name), but made the mistake of calling the council to ask what to do with the bank account. Of course, the council said "Write us a check and close the account. We will keep that money for you for a period of time (unspecified, of course), and, should you be able to re-establish a crew, we'll give it back to you." By the time any of the concerned parents and crew members asked about it, it was gone. They had the idea to donate this to another local charity in need, since it was monies from their dues and fund raising work. When they inquired if they could get it back to do so, they were told it was raised only for the purposes of "Scouting" and so it could only be used for that. (I'd beg to differ, but that's a topic for another post...) This made the many of the parents, committee members, and youth very upset, as some of the money had been paid as dues to provide for their recharter (which did not happen), and they thought they should at least have that returned to them. Finally, since you renew your charter agreement every year, please read it thoroughly! http://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Annual-Charter-Agreement-Charter-Organizations-.pdf The current charter agreement says two things in particular (that a CO must do) : - Conduct the Scouting program consistent with BSA rules, regulations, and policies. Located on the My.Scouting website and online at: www.scouting.org/about/membership-standards/. {Which, when you drill down takes you here... https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Rules_Regulations_Sept20.pdf} - Be a good steward of unit resources and adhere to BSA Fiscal Policies. ie. Unit Money Earning projects {No link is provided in the Charter Agreement, but here are the BSA Fiscal Policies as of March 2021: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Fiscal_Policies_and_Procedures_for_-BSA_Units_20210513.pdf} If you read those three documents, they should further clarify or muddy the waters for you 😜 Hope this helps!

Is that per POC?

Awesome! Always need strong committee members working the administrative side! If your want further advice, sing out 🤪🤪🤪

Now on to seven or so years of Scouts!

This^^^^^^^^^

We would do a "dog pile!" for fun and celebration. When a Scout did something great, someone would yell "DOG PILE!" If the celebrated was a smaller-statured Scout, then, usually, one of the older Scouts would be the first to tackle the celebrated person and be on elbows and knees to help bear the weight of the jumping and wiggling crowd on top. We also had a safe word, "PINEAPPLE!" If anyone yelled it, we had to stop immediately. It was usually the older Scout if the weight began to be too much for him to protect the one on the bottom. This was never used as punishment...only for celebrating. Here's an example... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4inC-injkB4&ab_channel=SportsOnTheSide

Yes, looks like a medal from a historic trail. What council is the Scout in? You can find what your local trails are here, then look up the medals on Google to ID it. https://tap.scouting.org/bsa-historic-trails-index/ Or here... trailmedal.com

Yes, looks like a medal from a historic trail. What council is the Scout in? You can find what your local trails are here, then look up the medals on Google to ID it. https://tap.scouting.org/bsa-historic-trails-index/

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” ― G. Michael Hopf, Those Who Remain Guess where we are now? 😜

Edited and removed...thanks! I conflated that with info from source which says BSA camps offering certified Trek Leaders as guides are certified by the state...and required by the camp. Not required for unit treks...sorry for the confusion.

Appalachian Trail... any section hike is good. No group limits, lots of in-town options, etc. Here is a good tool... https://nps.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=6298c848ba2a490588b7f6d25453e4e0 Numerous loops are available from state forests and parks trails all along the AT to make logistics easier. Adirondacks... multiple options. Crew sizes are limited in areas. Cranberry Lake 50 Trail (actually, a series of interconnected trails) is a good option. https://cranberrylake50.org/ This trail is a circuit, so parking and logistics is easier. It's a long way from Northern VA 😜 Or there is the Northville Placid Trail, 135 miles total, so you could do a section hike if that is too long. http://nptrail.org/ Poconos...the Pinchot Trail (interconnected system) is good...and camping in the State Forest is free (and you can camp almost anywhere). Advertised at 23 miles, but with interconnecting forest roads and side trails, you can easily put together a much longer trek. http://elibrary.dcnr.pa.gov/GetDocument?docId=1753357&DocName=dcnr_20033753.pdf Alleghenys...Laurel Highlands Trail http://elibrary.dcnr.pa.gov/GetDocument?docId=1743399&DocName=LARI_ParkMap.pdf , and you can do a whitewater trip in Ohiopyle on the Youghiogheny River (pronounced YOCK-a-gainy) You could also drop in to Pittsburgh and pay @qwazsea visit Have backpacked various lengths on all these...no big issues that proper planning wouldn't overcome. Enjoy!

We don't participate primarily because this is where we see some of the most egregious violations. It is bad enough at summer camp when the camp's adult leaders don't even follow the rules. Thunderstorms is one of the biggest issues. "Yes, I hear the thunder, but no, we aren't closing down the program areas... that storm is not going to come over us." SMH Here are the results of a similar incident... https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-jun-16-na-scouts16-story.html

@RememberSchiff, $25 from 1911 in today's dollars would be $727.87. https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1911?amount=25 That's $17.33 per person per day. Pretty good! But with our advances in food production, storage, and logistics over the century, and changing it to a more "modern" list (we rarely cook with lard or butter anymore), I'd bet this cost would be much less (than $727.87) today. Thanks for sharing!

Registering in your state in part of the 501c3 non-profit establishment process. You are creating a corporation. The corporation is the legal entity which can own property and a bank account. The corporation becomes the sponsor for the unit. You will have to file several documents (for a fee, of course) to complete the process, but it is not overly complicated. I'll ask the legal eagles to weigh in, but I understand that the assets of the corporation can be at risk, but the assets of the "officers" of the corporation are not. If that were the case, wouldn't any and every national BSA corporate officer be at risk to lose their fortunes and property? You place your personal assets at risk by your own intentional acts and/or negligence. If you want to avoid all risks associated with Scouting, then my advice is to avoid Scouting. You bear risk as a leader when you lead a unit, no matter which corporation is the sponsor. Here a primer on some of the issues: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/nonprofit-directors-personal-liability-32357.html This is also one of the big reasons that the bankruptcy and any lawsuits against the BSA cannot touch the pension fund...

There are quite a few...we could start a new thread on that 😜

Institution Head signs the Charter Agreement (Charter Organization Line) COR Signs CC Signs Last signature is a local council rep...our DE has signed in the past. http://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Annual-Charter-Agreement-Charter-Organizations-.pdf There is no order of signature, so anyone can sign first and then route in turn. Our council accepts electronic signatures and scanned copies, but you may want to check with your council to see if they want original signature document. Start by asking your DE what they prefer. Happy Scouting

Yes, exactly, and so we just used them "on our own." But, I have had Cubs camping at locations that did not meet the criteria ("Drinking water from an approved source is provided at convenient locations.") We brought our own, and deemed this to meet the criterion. The appraisal form specifically says "This site appraisal form is to be used by the local BSA council to evaluate pack overnight family camping locations. It should be kept on file in the council office for local unit reference and is periodically reviewed for accuracy." The three councils I dealt with had no forms "...on file in the council office for local unit reference..." It is not a MUST for councils, it is a SHOULD, and that was probably their mindset in not having them in-house. https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/430-90218-PackOvernightForm_Fillable.pdf