Jameson76

Do not underestimate the damage done in the 70's with the ISP (Improved Scouting Program). That was a pivotal misstep and lack of direction and understanding by Ivory Tower National Leadership on how the program works. So many left youth and so many youth NEVER became Scouts and while that immediate loss was epic, the longer term an effect that has driven the quest for the golden ring of "membership" lo these last 50 years. Without being members as youth, many were not invested in the program. As adults they did not involve their kids, so less members. Rinse, lather, repeat. National then embarked on many misbegotten and NON CORE efforts that really degraded the "fun with a purpose" thrust. Sort of like Moses wandering in the desert. Now the National movement organization is bankrupt, there are 90,000 abuse cases (thought that may have come about anyway) and membership has to be way less than the 2 million youth declared at the end of 2019. I fear that Gloria Gaynor's words "I Will Survive" will not ring true for the BSA.

No matter how you may feel on this, biggest challenge is this is the continuing move away from our CORE COMPETENCY. Is this "Fun with a Purpose"? I would say no and it does not add value to the program. I am not suggesting that the possible issue may be important to society, but there are many many issues that may be important to society. The BSA cannot be all things to all people. The more we try the more we wander aimlessly with each special interest group looking to "mold" the Scouting movement in America to what they "feel" is important and critical. Stick with the basics, focus on fun and outdoors, differentiate the Scouting movement in the market place. Drill down to the WHY kids join. This is like houses, not every house one builds may suit everyone. Deal with the reality and be good at what we do and narrow focus on that. Bending and moving to the winds of whatever is current will continue to kill the movement.

Or younger. A 22 year old leader in 1985 would be 57 today. Mid eighties (83 - 87) is only (only...God I sound old) 37 years ago. I've got a Philmont belt older than that

Not dismissing the potential accuracy or validity of this claim, but how can the BSA (or any group for that matter) put up a reasonable defense again this claim? No real way to even verify the claimant was active in a unit at the time of the alleged abuse. As many have noted, unless there was an actual criminal complaint and conviction pre about 1980, the accuser could be liable for accusations. Basically a no win scenario now.

Again - the priorities continue to be way off base. Clueless being led by more clueless and being led by consultants with stock powerpoints so it seems they did something. Under BSA Council Basic Standards - they put the only mention of anything related to PROGRAM at the bottom. That is insane. THAT IS NUMBER ONE..PROGRAM DRIVES EVERTYTHING!! Under Council Performance Standards Charter they put RENTENTION way down the list. That is an indicator of (wait for it) PROGRAM...THAT NEEDS to be BE NUMBER ONE!! Under Leading Indicators of Successful Councils they do not even mention PROGRAM!! Painfully obvious the vaunted Churchill group does not understand how PROGRAM is what drives SUCCESS!!

Boypower Manpower...worked so well in the late 60' and 70's. Basically DE's registered all the names one could find in the graveyards. That was followed by the always popular In School Scouting in the 90's, which got you lots of Scouts that had no idea they were Scouts as they used donations to provide registration fees. They will keep trying and trying quotas until they get it right

But .... but .... we are always told Scouting's a great value, less than sports..yada yada yada. Worth WAAAY more than being charged. Also they (National) did a survey and 129% of families want a program *like* Scouting (note that does not actually mean they want to join Scouting...but we digress). If the Brain Trust does not truly understand and accept the reasons for Scouting's decline (muddled program initiatives, Zero National marketing, no real "benchmarking" to determine best practice for successful units, etc etc) they will never be able to correct, improve, and move forward. I am thinking 16 National Subset ZONEs will have NO impact on actual units and improvement in membership rolls.

Agree - Just because a Troop does not have advancement centric outings does not mean advancement may not occur on outings. It should be organic. As an example, these are requirements 9B of the Camping merit badge On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision: Hike up a mountain where, at some point, you are at least 1,000 feet higher in elevation from where you started. Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least four miles. Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours. Take a non-motorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles. Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience. Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more. Annually we do 5 of these in the normal course of our normal outdoor program. That is what Scouting should be, going out and doing stuff. Sadly we rarely if ever are able to PLAN a snow camping experience what with being down south and all.

Our troop does knife throwing on a regular basis. Have a mobile target, ribbon off space, use the smaller knives to throw. Here's a pro-tip, make sure your knives have bright orange on them, or they will in fact get lost in the leaves or ground cover. We have some throwing hatchets, but have not come up with a decent target that can be mobile.

Don't kid yourself that this is about COVID. That may be the reason given, but in all likelihood it's about money. If units start doing things together and having a fun time, how in the world will the Council be able to monetize these events? Why maybe we don't really need the council management overhead. All those fees for camporees and council events come with a "surcharge" that goes to the council coffers. God forbid, troops may get together and run their own summer camp for a greatly reduced cost.

Looks to be 140 acres and was possibly on the block in 2010. At that time The Boy Scouts hoped that a conservation organization like the Trust for Public Land would buy the development rights to most of the 140-acre property. The sale would provide an infusion of as much as $30 million to the Boy Scouts https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/24/nyregion/24scout.html

We just got back from weekend backpacking. The camping area was on a bend in a river. River is up due to rains, so we had to have the boys figure a way to get to the river, step on to a downed tree to float the intake for the water filter. Good times to get water, but on the plus side, sort of an unlimited supply

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with on the National not screwing around with the program in the 70's. That is exactly what they did with the "Improved Scouting Program" and decided that the real way to win hearts and minds was to focus on inner city and urban youth. That was the ticket. Also the infamous "BOYPOWER MANPOWER" initiative to tie in with the 1976 Bicentennial. The ISP turned rank advancement on it's head and for several years you could earn Eagle without ever camping or doing any traditional outdoor stuff. Scouting lost about 2 million members in the decade Boypower Manpower resulted in the largest membership scandal up to that time. maybe more than the In School Scouting programs in the 90's. Many of the members showing in 1970 were likely not there in reality, so the actual loss will never be known. BSA National the the "adults" that feel they are all knowing always feels they know best and they never go and see what actual units are doing to be successful. They are so far out of touch it's silly. Leads to things like shrinking membership and bankruptcy so I've been told

This so spot on. You do not need a policy to have common sense. Many units paint themselves into corners with policies and multi-page (with colored tabs no doubt) Pack Procedure manual. This takes away the ability to really manage the issue. In this situation basically they want YOU (The pack) to provide an accommodation for their son similar to the School system. The schools are a public items, governed by a myriad of laws, guidelines, rules. The pack is not under that guidance. Situation - Cub is disruptive and needs to be removed from the meeting. That is the issue, deal with THAT issue Solution 1 - Parent stays and manages their Cub, works with them, works with the pack system, registers, and his attendance is dependent on their attendance OR their recruitment of someone to manage THEIR son. Solution 2 - They need to find a pack that may better fit their specific needs Go forth and have fun Scouting

Tent with my son on an outing?? That would mean that we would need to speak with other on an outing, possibly make eye contact, and horrors, he would need to acknowledge that he knows me and potentially have interaction with me. As none of those are going to happen, the whole tenting together is not happening. Plus he has BO and talks in his sleep.

Peanuts Atlanta Area Council SE base salary is close to $500,000. Top Five folks in the staff of + 70 combined make over $1,000,000. When you add in benefits, bonuses, etc the total for those 5 is closer to $2,000,000. Nice work if you can get it I guess

For High Adventure we do one each year. Odd years Seabase and even years Philmont. Well, unless there are fires or pandemics.😁 We set a timeframe before our final commitment to the HA base is due. You pay a deposit, if you pull out, you lose your deposit. As this progresses if a Scout drops out, they do not get refunds unless we can fill the slot or the base refunds. Each Scout is responsible for their fees. We have good data so really no surprises and all know the commitments and costs before signing up.

Well...I guess what was old is now new. For a several years a Scout could get Eagle without swimming, camping, cooking, or ever actually going outdoors. Look up the requirements from the 1973 handbook. There were various skill awards one could choose from. Only required skill award was Citizenship. There were 12 in all. Swimming, Conservation, First Aid, Family Living, Environment, Community Living, Camping, Personal Fitness, Communications, Hiking, Cooking, Citizenship. A Scout had to earn a total of 8, so if you did not do Camping, Cooking, Hiking, or Swimming ..... that was OK according to the Guide to Advancement. Camping and Cooking were not required merit badges. You could earn E Prep OR Lifesaving / Personal Fitness OR Swimming OR Sports. No event or campout requirements for any of the various ranks Dark times indeed during the 70's

Is the first train running East or West? I was not clear on what time it left the station or the horsepower of the engine. I think it was steam, but not sure. Pretty sure the second train was delayed by the hurricane. Who takes trains these days anyway? My answer is they will never meet

The lease deal and the Shared Services Agreement is an interesting twist. When I first saw this was the setup for Summit, it did seem like an accounting exercise in order to keep assets off of some register. Not saying it had ill intent, but it may be the most transparent way to spend $750 mm on strip mine. In many many businesses there is the company that runs the business and one may think they own the business. When you peel the onion back you find a much more complicated view. An example of this is Eddie Lampert and the KMart / Sears - Sears Holding. His group bought Sears then sold the property to another group he controlled and leased it back while Sears ran the business. That got all complicated with the bankruptcy for them. Not sure the BSA was actively trying to shuffle assets, but one never knows. In many ways the new company and lease back can speed up capital approvals as leases are seen differently in financial reporting than purchases. Real question may be what is the actual status now of the BSA wholly own subsidiary Arrow WV. One would assume it would be embroiled in the bankruptcy and most judges would take a dim view if the organization was trying to hide assets or do shell game at this point.

Reminder that being a SM is in fact a job. Not paid, but it is a job. You will need to evaluate this as one might a job. Are YOU able to contribute AND more importantly, does the position satisfy what you are looking for. Many times when one takes a new job it looks really good, recruiter says the right things, the people you meet say the right things...but then you get smacked with reality. The job is not a fit. At that point you are faced with the decision to endure the mismatch in the job OR move on to look for something new. Only one person can make that decision. Not the internet, not friends, not the CO, not the CC...only you

We held our own summer camp in July, great success, Scouts has a great time. Over 30 Scouts and leaders Started in person meetings first of August. Our troop typically meets outside in the Scout area behind the church. The church is not having services, they have no issue with us meeting but asked we not be on campus. Troop is meeting at the park across the street at a large pavilion. Going camping this weekend at the lake. Over 40 Scouts and leaders. Scouts will be transported by parents, no tent sharing, no hammock stacking. Spreading the patrols out. Doing what we can, meeting outside, etc

I get that and am glad your unit had a good week at camp. That being said, not sure one can really evaluate the camp and program there without fully acknowledging what a huge waste of BSA resources this was. Yes is it likely a nice facility. The National team did in fact spend north of $750MM on the place and there is no real path for this vanity project to be in the black. At this point it is a facility looking for a purpose. Where did all the cash go over the last 10 years, well you were there.

As others have noted, not sure the group (NEC Team) really understands how things work now. They seem to think that making some adjustments or tweaks will make everything better. The NEC should have presented a plan on how to FOCUS the Scouting program and movement on our strengths and market differentiation (outdoor program, youth led, self reliance, problem solving, personal growth) and how to leverage that to grow the program. Hint - it's not STEM, safety, popcorn, and professional staff Lastly, this is great - since financial challenges prevent us from being able to meet demands with professional staff alone. Honestly not sure what the Fields Execs and multiple layers of operations management actually do to support the local units. The admins at the council office do more than anyone.

Agree Not making any excuses, but to judge peoples actions by today's standards or reporting is not really a great comparison. A lot of moving parts, many scouters were booted from their troops, but there was not a good avenue of recourse. Parents did not want to involved the police. Yes there were some failures, but not to the degree portrayed and in many cases actions were (for the time) appropriate. Not saying right or wrong, just appropriate for the time.