Jameson76

My thought is not so much the discrimination standpoint, as honestly the majority of CO's primary provision of material support is in the way of meeting space, access to the grounds, etc. Not too many of them (though some do) write a check each year. If they do that is easily balanced. Your point on equipment is more easily handled / explained as troops with longer tenure will have more stuff accumulated The point of contention will likely be (as you note) the opportunity available in Old School Boy Scout troop with it's 13 outings per year, 50 Boy Scouts, institutional knowledge, 30+ year traditions, and actual field knowledge VERSUS the newly formed Girls troop with 6 members and trying to figure out how to organize a trip and more importantly.. (wait for it) how to HAVE FUN on a weekend outing. The girls will want to join (be enabled that opportunity) but the Boy Scout troop will be able to indicate, not an option. The girls will then likely file suit against BSA for equal access and National will update and allow a coed option Challenge and real rub will come when National allows the coed option but it is not mandated. Girls want to join Old School troop for all the opportunities they offer, but the troop desires to stay single gender. That will trigger the discrimination claims and then hilarity will ensue and most likely in the not to distant future coed will not be an option but will be part of the program. Units will have to deal with it, also the families that will come with it. Right or wrong, love it or hate it, want it or not...in 3 to 5 years the program of the Boy Scouts of America for 11 -17 year old boys formerly known as the Boy Scouts of America will be greatly altered in appearance and operation. Yes the mission and goals will hopefully remain, but it will have much different vibe. There will be a survey.....

I think at the unit level you have to provide program that meets the different needs You can all go on the outing, but they each can have the opportunity to participate as they need Older scouts may camp apart a bit Also with HS schedules they may want to crash in the afternoon. We go to the lake and do tubing, older scouts may get a rougher ride We go backpacking and look for loop options Younger less experience do a 4 mile while older guys do a 9 mile . Also do high adventure every summer in addition to camps to keep older scouts engaged Last point is understand you may not see them for a season. That is what it is, welcome them when they are there Engaging older scouts in solely on the local units

They are really committed to this effort, I see that an WHOLE Hour and 15 minutes is allotted, and yes there will be time for questions so you know this will be an in depth disussion

In talking with the Boy Scouts in our troop, they are meh about girls joining BSA.....hey separate troops, we don't typically camp with other units, do council events, and are not really camporee people...so except for summer camp, minimal impact. They did / have asked what's the deal with Family Scouting / Camping? Does this mean Mom and Dad will come on outings? Isn't one the fun parts of scouting NOT having the parents and siblings along? As leaders our input is we do not plan any changes and will continue to execute a fun and challenging program. The Family Scouting is the sort of the unknown lurking in the shadows. I would tend to agree, little Johnny signs up and EVERYBODY signs up

So...BSA will need 10,000 NEW Scouts per state to break even from the LDS departure. With 272 councils each one will need to add 1,838 new BS4G participants. Also there will be a need for some yet undetermined number to backfill those that age out, normal attrition, and then to replace those who vote with their feet. Assume there will be an overhead staffing reduction plan at BSA National / Regional to maintain the corporate cost ratios

I remember seeing that in an old book. So the scenario is two scouts are on a hike, it is a warm day, they come upon a cooling stream/pond/lake. As they are (of course) in full class A for their hike Scout 1 goes swimming using the two neckerchiefs (picture sort of a speedoesque attire) while Scout 2 is the lifeguard. Then they reverse roles (and one would assume the swimwear). Dry off and continue the hike

This will happen in October of this year when the Web II girls realize that the snazzy active troop they may be visiting for AOL requirements with many outings per year, high adventure, etc she will not be able to join

Many of us who have worked with BSA for now these many years have the same feelings. If BSA had said..hey we want to form an outdoor focused program that services girls, built on the framework of the current BSA program with the same requirements...I would have been more supportive What we get is "Scout Me In"...Linked troops, single gender dens, and the fervent hope that these unnamed and unidentified district and council resources will somehow be able to form all these new units and implement this new dynamic change Oh... and pay for the sins of the past with increased membership fees to support the great white elephant that is Summit

Ahh - Open Hearts Open Minds Open Doors...lifelong member of the same group (I think). Not to be to far off topic but I read the recent Bishops decision for annual conference and am really not sure what the plan forward is

To be fair, there is a difference with girls being instructors (staff) at camp as opposed to being campers. They are in fact council employees. As such they are likely trained on YPT and also other workplace harassment classes. For most camps these are older high school or college age girls. Additionally at camps with females staffers they are typically provided housing separate from male staff (sleeping and shower arrangements). Some camps have coed Venture groups come but that is more commonly a minimal percentage of the camp, and they are doing a high adventure path (maybe off camp) or some non merit badge class type function on camp (COPE or similar) Basic summer camp will be a challenge for many council camps. Troop often share sites, the restrooms may be more communal, and other opportunities will be presented that will need to be overcome.

As information - Eagle Scouts are getting older In 1949, the average age of Eagle Scouts was 14.6 years. In 2016, that number was 17.35 years old. (That’s 17 years, 127.75 days.) That average Eagle Scout age has been pretty consistent in recent years. Indeed, the change from 2015 to 2016 was just 0.01 years — or 3.65 days. 2009 17 years, 116.8 days 2010 17 years, 87.6 days 2011 17 years, 116.8 days 2012 17 years, 84.0 days 2013 17 years, 87.6 days 2014 17 years, 113.2 days 2015 17 years, 124.1 days 2016 17 years, 127.8 days https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/03/03/what-was-the-average-age-of-2016-eagle-scouts/

That will be the cue for the gnashing of teeth and cry for exceptions to the 18 year barrier as it is patriarchal and speaks of a male imposed barrier (I kid). There will be concerns when the older girls want to join and there are no troops OR the troops are new and no resources / institutional knowledge to speed them along. Then we will have discussions and surveys about a coed option

$55 breakfast? Assuming not the same bill of fare I had on my outing last week, by the way, it was fast, easy to prepare, and tasty

You have got to read the notes to really understand this one. Questions and things to look out for: How will they continue to spin the Summit expenses and bond debt as a great thing? How will they notate the issue with unfunded pension liabilities? Will there be forward looking statements on all the expected new revenue from Family Scouting?

It is possible - The timeline (from attaining First Class) is 16 months. That being said to get to First Class requires: Since joining Boy Scouts, participate in 10 separate troop/patrol activities, at least six of which must be held outdoors. Of the outdoor activities, at least three must include overnight camping. These activities do not include troop or patrol meetings. On campouts, spend the night in a tent that you pitch or other structure that you help erect, such as a lean-to, snow cave, or tepee. If the troop is active, a scout should be able to get the outdoor requirements There is camping merit badge - a. Camp a total of at least 20 nights at designated Scouting activities or events.* One long-term camping experience of up to six consecutive nights may be applied toward this requirement. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent. *All campouts since becoming a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout may count toward this requirement. Again, IF the troop is active and IF the Scout comes to things, that can be done in a shortened window. The challenge will be that older girls will look to join and earn the Eagle Scout. With a new troop or a new linked troop, getting all of this met could be an issue. Also will the unit have MBC available for all the required merit badges and earning 21 in that time can be a challenge We have a scout that joined when he was 15 almost 16. Had a conversation with him about what he wanted to accomplish in BSA beyond just the fun, experience, outings, and leadership (and if he had said that was all would have been fine). He indicated he may hope to get Life Scout but felt not enough time for Eagle. We sat down and looked at the timeline and key dates. Talked about merit badges and what he needed for that. Basically last summer (his first with us) he did High Adventure, and both summer camps. This summer he is doing High Adventure and our second summer camp. Also he has attended some of the merit badge weekends and clinics for some additiona. If he stays on track he could accomplish the plan within a two year window. That being said we are working with an older Scout and that helps.

Correct we are the Boy Scouts of America, but as a point of historical fact the BSA grew out of association with the English Scouts. If you are not cognizant and aware of the basic roots of the organization, then the shift of emphasis can be missed. The point is that BSA and earlier the English scouts were founded and fostered to meet a need to work with and help develop boys into men who can be a positive asset to their community. The leaders, movers and shakers, and people of influence saw that need. They also saw a need for a similar organization for girls. Now, yes society has changed. The point is there is still that needed for an organization to work with and help develop boys into men who can be a positive asset to their community. The current BSA has expanded their reach into many many things, not sure all of them are that focus. The Girl Scouts (and they do have issues) at least continue to focus on their core mission. Though you many want to, you are not able to rewrite or ignore history. It it not 1984

Presuming you have reviewed this document https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/outdoor program/aquatics/pdf/430-501.pdf Admittedly does not help on the where to find the training. If you are inexperienced you may want to look for a commercial river outfit, do a 3 - 4 hour float / paddle. See how that works, then expand

Funny because it has a ring of truth....

Pretty sure poorly rolled out is an understatement With each "Big Announcement" (no doubt prepared by the the well paid PR team) there come out multiple clarifying statements.

Not disputing that the activities can be done by anyone of any gender. That being said, the first sections of the older SM guides are clearly about boys, male youths. The intent is to focus on the boys, and the program is interpreted and (at the time) designed for boys. The discussion is about boys. From the British - About the Boy Scouts Association - Royal Charter 1912 The aim of the Association is to develop good citizenship among boys by forming their character -- -training them in habits of observation, obedience, and self-reliance --- inculcating loyalty and thoughtfulness for others --- teaching them services useful to the public, and handicrafts useful to themselves --- promoting their physical, mental, and spiritual development. From 1913 Scoutmaster Handbook - The ultimate Aim of Scouting Aim to secure balanced, symmetrical activities for your patrols. Remember your Scout is four sided, that he is physical, mental, social and religious in his nature. Do not neglect any one side of him, but get the proper agencies to cooperate with you for these ends. Let the boys do what ever they can. Merely insist on adequate adult supervision. Above all be patient, practical and business like and remember that old heads never grow on young shoulders. The Scout Master should take his place in the community by the side of the teacher of secular and religious instruction. He is an educator and is dealing with the most plastic and most valuable asset in the community — boyhood. Let him take his task seriously, look upon his privilege with a desire to accomplish great things, and always remember that the good of the boys is his ultimate aim.

That is correct, but to be clear the mission statement has not always been part of scouting canon, it is a product of the 60's or likely 70's. There has not always been the feel good mission statement Looking at the old school Scoutmaster Handbook (mine is 1938 printing) the emphasis is clearly on Boys. What do Boys need. How can the Scoutmaster make an impact in a Boys life. What do Boys do and how do they interact and function in their gangs No youth, only boys

That is accurate, but there are many CO's that likely have little of no involvement with the Scouts. They may provide a space (as does ours) but beyond that no real material support. If anything we try to keep reminding the church what we do. Eagle projects, include them in our Social Media, name on T-shirts, etc. If the coed issue driven by the media gets legs, some will say "What...we have Boy Scout troop??"

And therein lies the problem. Few volunteers really have a depth of experience actually starting new units. I have done it and it is a long play. In a district of maybe 30 Cub packs and 30 Boy Scout troops you may actually start from scratch maybe 1 or 2 units per year. There will be rebuilding and reforming some existing units, but few from scratch. Now the onus will be to possibly startup 6 - 8 new units. Some districts will have resources and gumption to do that, most probably will not. Then there will be the hue can cry from girls wanting to join, but the troops will not allow access, BSA is not allowing access, the deck is stacked against them... Cue the media outcry, then there will be a coed option, then the units that do not want to be coed will come under pressure and I bet in less than 3 years, all will be coed Actually the hue and cry will begin in October of 2018, (less than 5 months away) as potential Web II young ladies visit troops (Webelos Scouting Adventure requirements 2 and 4) and they hear of what neat things troop XXX is doing, but alas that is not an option for them.