Jameson76

Our troop uses the basic 12 x 12 tarps available at Home Depot. For the uprights we use 8' 2x2's (also from Home Depot for about $1 each) with a nail driven in the top. Each patrol sets up a tarp, takes six stakes if setting up in a field. Also can easily be setup in trees. Each patrol has a table, and a patrol box with stoves. For fun we recreate Norman Rockwell paintings

Unscented soaps and shampoo, helps keep the bugs away Small shampoos (hotel type) and liquid soaps as you will leave them in the shower Snacks and good container to keep them in Good walking shoes, try to vary each day If you have one a fitbit or step tracker is kind of fun, you will be amazed at the number of steps each day As has been noted, good daypack to keep all your stuff in during the walking about camp Water bottle, but honestly after week 1 at camp the campers will leave plenty of them around and you will have your pick Good towel, but honestly after week 1 at camp the campers will leave plenty of them around and you will have your pick A second Class A shirt, they can get gamey as the week progresses Cheap sunglasses and a cord to keep them, you will be in the sun a great deal Hammock Good socks

No dog in this fight (BTW - do not support dog fighting but it's a great old expression) as our unit has eschewed any camporees, etc. The judging of "best" troop or "best" patrol at events when there are NOT objective measurements is suspect at best. Have a camporee competition where Scouts paddle a canoe out and back, lowest time wins, great. Tie 8 knots in a relay, lowest time wins, super. When you start adding mystery "Bonus" points for patrol spirit, team effort, appearance, etc etc, then the competition becomes no longer a competition, but an anointing by the camporee adults of who they think (or feel?) should win. The Scouts can see through this sham very quickly

Oscar D was about 1980 or so

Settle it by building a Thunderdome....Two leaders enter; one leader leaves!

My scouts prove on every outing that ramen does not in fact need to be cooked, it can be eaten as is and is a great crunchy snack. The flavor packets are poured over as a "flavoring"

That is true, but sometimes convenience trumps Paula Dean input (hey ya'll, we're gonna fry some butter in butter and it's gonna be delicious) Actually they do sell an instant grits that comes in a self serve cup (you can get oatmeal also), just add water. A little bulky on the outbound leg, but they compress down nicely for the trip back. We add beef jerky to the grits and that is mighty tasty.

We were coming back from an outing last week, stopped for lunch, saw the Girl Scouts were selling cookies nearby so we wandered over and bought some cookies, talked about our recent outing, heard about their projects, and we went on our way. The sky did not open, everyone was pleasant, and we ate several boxes of Samoas before we got back to the church

Policies made at the 50,000 foot level, far far away from actual persons (dare I say customers??) who are involved in your program, and made by peoples that are not involved in the day to day, actually in the trenches will more than often miss the mark. Typically as the Scouting volunteers move up the ladder of their respective council they move further away from the day to day actual "business" of Scouting. They will be able to speak volumes of how they are involved in the program; Woodbadge staff, working staff at Commissioner College, staffing an event at the council camporee, doing summer camp inspections, SM for NYLT, teaching at MB university, etc etc. Good things, but the nuts and bolts are sometime missed. What looks good in theory and well designed on paper, may not meet muster with an actual unit As Helmuth von Moltke the Elder noted (He was the Chief of Staff of the Prussian army before World War 1).....“No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy.” Same could be said of most of these policies to one degree or another

To say that if your son invites a friend to your house, to play video games, and he lives nearby and he happens to be in the scout troop, but your son is not quite home yet, and since you are there also (maybe working upstairs) is a violation of YPT as this is one on one contact in or out of Scouting is absurd. Doubling down on this, they are playing video games and move on to getting gear together and planning food for an upcoming outing, now that is a scout meeting and "horrors" there are not 2 YPT trained leaders around. Tripling down, your daughter (you are the dad, only parent home) has a friend come over, they are both in the new girls troop, to do some school work. Her dad is a troop leader with you. As they come in, the usual pleasantries, then a conversation about gear and planning food for an upcoming outing, now this has morphed into a scout meeting and "MORE horrors" while both you and her dad are YPT trained leaders there is NOT a female YPT trained leaders in the vicinity, clear clear violation. In all cases I would expect you would need to self report OR logically you realize the absurdity of many the revised YPT rules and nuances, and just keep on keeping on, working to deliver program and maybe generate some YPT absurdity skits.

That may in fact be the case, but they do list is separately in all the annual numbers reporting Exploring career-based programs is one group boys and girls in elementary through high school in Learning for Life character education programs is a second group

Agreed. The inference was "jump start" which would imply a move in a better direction. As noted, this was only a short time for the girls in Cubs for 2018, but it was a 1.1% drop. Maybe that is better than it would have been. For BSA as a whole the I believe the goal was a 2% increase, which would have been a net increase from 2017 of 53,188 youth. As for the expectation, if you review CSE Surbaugh's messages and the famous survey, (97% of families want to be involved in a program LIKE the BSA) then this is not great news

The numbers are in for 2018. Apparently the addition of Girls into Cub Scouts did not result in the overall jump start that was hoped for in the program https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/03/2018-Report-to-the-Nation.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3j99qbIlquBwh9QR2FCQwQQMLtzmhDOyTPsBndc4v8g1RgoC65hgYW7p0 As a comparison (Note that 2014 numbers were a little imprecise in the annual report)

They may not want to with the girls due to the somewhat onerous YPT requirements for girls. If I as a MB counselor wanted to work with the boys in my troop, we would get together prior to the meeting, there are leaders and other scouts, etc. arriving. I usually work with my unit only, but have had some from other units, again same times, so no YPT issues. Now, being very literal with YPT (any Scout meeting) if some girls wanted to meet I have to make sure there is a YPT trained female leader over 21 also around for the duration of the session. Many MB counselors may not want to try to overcome or arrange that hurdle. If it was just two YPT leaders, they could come by prior to our meetings, but that extra requirement National has put in may put a damper (fear??) on folks wanting to do it. Not saying it's right, but sometimes rules have end results not fully intended.

It is the unique nature of the outdoor program. Seeing Scouts grow and mature as they play and have fun in that environment. Then when they are 16 - 17 and realize the method to the madness, and that they have experienced what not many of their friends may have been involved in. I was raised in a basically suburban area, but we had acreage and with neighbors there was 60 - 90 acres i wandered with friends. Scouting was an extension of that and the fun of going off for the weekend and longer term camps. My goal is to get these guys out and about. Working with the unit seeing the Scouts go from unsure crossover Scouts to tentatively taking leadership roles, to taking full leadership roles is the why. Speaking with parents who can see the benefits and what their boys get from the program. While the advancement is part of it, it is the experiences and learning to work in a group of peers. My son relates that when he was a smart alecky 11 year old having an older scout tell him to stop being such a PITA was huge, as he was being one, it had an impact. Then when he became a leader of the new Scout program realizing that he was not the best participant when he was a new scout, and needed to apologize to his new scout PL The final reward can come when sitting on an EBOR or during an ECOH and hearing the Scouts talk about what was significant and how it affected and shaped them. The Scouting program is not a one and done "season". It is growth as the scouts move from elementary, to middle school, to high school. They learn to be self sufficient, to be responsible, and to own their actions. That's why I drive 4K plus miles annually and camp 30 plus nights each year. Plus 11 year old's setting up a patrol tarp and cooking is better than any Comedy Channel special.

Sadly we have less than 10 months left to disparage them......

JTE is definitely a corporate Lean type site measurement that was brought it. We typically get Gold status, but not sure it's something we focus on, but moving on... In JTE measurement the challenge I have is that Budget for the unit has the same equivalency as Short Term camping. A troop can be a Gold unit and in a year do only 4 short term campouts and going to summer camp. The JTE certainly does hopefully move units to do certain things, but clearly (IMHO) any unit that is "GOLD" should be camping 9 -12 times per year as short term, some of those campouts should be backpacking or hike in, they should be somewhat physically challenging and involve some HA type activity (kayaking, climbing, etc), and some of these should be 2 night activities. Rather than outdoor be only max of 20% (400 points max for #6 and #7, out of 2,000 max for the 11 items) that should be a much much larger component. Have a robust outdoor program or a unit is not "Gold". That simple. This is what can and should differentiate Scouting in the marketplace. On Mondays at school when a 7th grader is talking to friends rather than "I played 2 soccer games on Saturday", maybe a kid is telling how he went "hiking down in some gorge and was sliding on rocks into a pool of water and it was great!". That is what sells the program, not budgets, etc.

On the tour permits my assumption is that the lawyers and risk group determined that by presenting the accepted standards, then the onus of compliance is clearly shifted to the unit. The unit has an issue?? On My!! The local council and National BSA basically have a hands off fallback and refer to GTSS and basic leader training that the issue is clearly on that unit, they had (or should have had) the need detail and should have followed the accepted guidelines. Honestly they were really self declaratory anyway. In our unit we have a checklist to make sure hitting all the high points. The on-line process was way better, I recall having to go to the office to get them stamped. Still have my copy of the National Tour Permit I got when my Explorer Post drove out to Philmont in 85

That is so true...Cubs is really a PARENTS program and Boy Scouts is a BOYS YOUTH program. Remember your customer and serve that customer. Once you burn out the Cub parent, they and the youth are gone forever

That would be the solution, but that sadly that was not the problem. Challenge was not engagement, the real issue BSA wanted to solve was pool of applicants. If your program is for 3rd - 5th graders then you have an X number of potential participants. By adding 2nd grade, then 1st grade, then Kindergarten the organization basically doubled the pool of participants. The issue is retaining members, their (BSA Dallas) solution is to make the pool bigger, not solve or work on retaining members. It is fairly simple, PROGRAM, do FUN stuff. Make it ENGAGING. Look at the merit badges in Boy Scouts. Literally the FIRST requirement is basically hazards and risk mitigation. In no way am I saying we should not be cognizant of that, but there are ways to communicate in a less tedious manner. You can give a brief safety review, then go do stuff, and as you progress work with youth on how to do it in the proper and safe way. I was at one district event, there was literally a 30 minute safety meeting and basically we were camping and it was cold. This type of mindset, fear of risk, hampers many units. What they are doing is not that inherently risky, but they go down the rabbit hole of "safe" programming and it is bland. Also for our unit, that may have been the last district event we went to, better to be out in the world on our own. Fast forward to 2017, need more members....double the pool size and add girls. BSA needs to spend more time understanding retention and promoting OUTDOOR PROGRAM, then if you build it they will come.

We have had numerous current Scouts that basically stopped Cubs during 3rd or 4th grade and then they joined the troop when we crossed over Webelos to Scouts in the spring. The feedback was the boys were just tired of the Cub program, seemed to be the same things over and over. The Boys were ready for the freedom of Boy Scouts, being able to chart their course. In many cases the parents were weary of it also. Much bigger difference between kindergarten and 5th graders and what they can do as compared to the spread of activities for 6th graders to juniors in High School. BSA has, I guess, determined short term gain (more numbers for the councils) is better than long term members.

That was in fact the bet, that the girls will be a growth opportunity. All the chips for the future were put on G and the wheel was spun. Honestly the ball is still bouncing and we do not know if that bet will pay off. As was noted in the bankruptcy conversations several months back with the exposure on insurance, dwindling numbers, spending at the Summit, and unfunded pension liabilities the BSA needed more members. The registration fee went up significantly in 2017, so that was a lifeline toss. Recruiting more boys to the program has been a challenge. During his listening and speaking tours CSE Sourbaugh admitted as much, in that they were out of ideas, so heck fire, let the girls in. Possibly the program folks need to look at all the stem focus, continuing efforts by many well intentioned councils for more class focus activities (MB universities come to mind), and troops making Boy Scouts just more school and less adventure as possibly reasons for lower numbers. Adding more girls seeking outdoor adventure may nudge the organization back to it's roots, hopefully. The BSA can be great part of a well rounded youth's activities (sports, school, religious, hobbies being some others). There is a lot of outdoor adventure out there, it's where we can differentiate in a crowded marketplace for a youth's time and efforts. Rather than Scout Me In our marketing should be We Go Do Stuff. Let the program sell itself at the local level. Get away from JTE, uniform police, leaders focused on district/council and not youth and laser focus back to Scouting outdoor activities and youth (Cubs, Scouts BSA*, Ventures and Explorers) doing things. * really think changing the flagship program's name to a generic name was a monumentally bad decision...

Can you give humility? That may help some in the WB world.

Have a Boy Scout that joined due to influence of friends, basically to do High Adventure, and he was 15 and about 9 months at the time. Really good youth. He did go to Seabase with a crew, not the one he wanted to , but another we sent. That summer he went to camp, did the new Scout program. While there we talked and I asked what he wanted to get out of Scouting. He advised have fun, go camping, maybe earn Life rank. We looked at the dates and advised he could actually get Eagle, if he committed to the journey through Scouting. He ended up going to our Second summer camp and served as a JASM for the week. Managed to earn some fun merit badges and some Eagle required. Then he did High Adventure this past summer, and went to the second summer camp again as a JASM. Good leadership and a great asset. Now he has completed his 21 merit badges and is beginning work on his Eagle project. Great example to other Boy Scouts in the troop.

Not sure when that went away. When on staff (way back in the old days, before the internet and cell phones, you know the dark ages*) we had stacks of #10 cans painted red and they would be place out in camp for dirt and water. They were placed at each tent. Been back at summer camps with the troop over the last 10 years and we do not seem to have that any longer. There is the stencil for NO FLAMES IN TENTS painted on them. We keep buckets in the troop trailer for the main campfire (or campfires) when camping. If we have a fire at summer camp, which is rare as it's normally like 900 degrees so fire is not a great option, and have them out. *though is was the dark ages the albums and music were the best, still enjoyed by all the Boy Scouts lo these many years later