Eagle94-A1

While google may only show this site using "conditional Scouter," I have heard used by my DE and on a facebook page. As @an_old_DC stated, in both cases it was in a demeaning manner. I'm upfront. I think this decision was the worse one BSA has ever made. It's worse than the Improved Scouting Program of the 1970s. Boys need a place to call there own, just as the girls do. Now there is one less place for boys to be themselves. But the writing on the wall has been there since I was a Scout back in the day. I did research and talked to others about it. I was a Sea Scout and an Adviser. I've worked at international camps. I've seen that it can work IF it is brought out the right way. National screwed the process up royally. How they unveiled the Town hall meeting requirements, day before many folks were leaving for jamboree, seem to be a deliberate attempt to not get stakeholders' opinions. The refusal to release the data from the town hall surveys, to this day, is another indication for me that National has not been "Trustworthy" with us. Then you have the "gender neutral" language of the 7/17 membership applications, several weeks before the Town Hall mandate came out, is yet another indicator that this decision was made with no input from those in the field. Then you get the backlash from pro's and other high level volunteers when you express your opinions. All of this makes me question why am I still involved? Yes, I am a "conditional Scouter." I'm here until my sons are out of the program. Further, I will leave when "my Scouts" no longer need me. I no longer care about national, since they do not care about us in the field. Irony is this, as much as I think this is a mistake, I know it can work. Heck I even talked to my council key three on the matter because I and others realized how flawed National's process was going to be. But national has so screwed it up, it is a giant Charlie Foxtrot.

I stayed in the program as an ASM, OA chapter adviser, etc after earning Eagle so I could give back. But I am a "Conditional Scouter." I became a professional, dealing with all the headaches, frustration and stress that job entails so I could make a difference. But I am a "Conditional Scouter." Once I left the profession, I volunteered again, leaving my wife and later kids at home, so that others could have a Scouting Experience. But I am a "Conditional Scouter." Instead of being just a DL for my sons, I picked up additional responsibilities on the district anc council level so that they and their friends could have a great time. So instead of being with them and doing things with them, I was running entire events. But I am a "Conditional Scouter." When my district began losing district committee members due to changes in policies they did not agree with, I stuck around and tried to hold things together. I was doing 4 different district jobs, which again took time away from my family. But I am a "Conditional Scouter." Yes, the term 'Conditional Scouter" is one to denigrate and insult those of use who care about the program, yet disagree with National. A lof of people, Scouts, parents, and Scouters, have reservations and concerns about the changes. We are hearing one set of things from national, but seeing just the opposite occuring with the early adopter Cub Scout packs, and those councils using Explorer Clubs to get a jump start on girls in Scouting. Funny thing is, at the town hall meeting, al lot of what I and others are seeeing, " joint meetings" and outright coed dens, predicted this would happen.

Where I am, adult interference under the guise of Family Scouting is already being implemented. Even before "Family Scouting" was announced, some adults were bringing non-Boy Scout children to events. Now that Family Scouting being announced and promoted, those adults are emboldened. Some of you have read my posts about the family with the Second Class Scout sneaking into the parents tent. The troop officially didn't do a camp out this month. 4 families within the troop went whitewater rafting, and just happen to use troop gear and work on advancement in addition to the rafting. Already have been told by the ASM heading it up that the 4 families liked it so much, that it is being scheduled for next year again. My older two sons are getting fed up. They don't want to transfer to another troop because of their friends though. That and they are trying to change it from inside. But I think they realize that the adults are the ones making the decisions, and not the Scouts. Especially since both are PLs and are on the PLC. Best example, troop did not have a September camp out planned. PLC came up with 2 choices for a camp out. #1 was a 3 day, 2 night at a place they never went to before. #2 was a 2 day 1 night backpacking trip. #1 is full. SM overuled #2 because he wants a 3 day 2 night camp out. So they are going to a place they have already been to this year. Good news is that the Scouts were allowed hammocks there in the past, and I do not see a reason for banning them. At the moment we will not be a linked troop with a girls' troop. Not only do we no space for another meeting at our CO, the poll we took was that 1/2 the troop would quit or transfer if we started meeting and camping with the girls. But two things about the decision. 1) the IH stated if the girls' troop is not working out, he will revisit the decision. He has already come out in favor of "Linked Troops," but realizes losing 50% of the membership, and probably that many of the active and experienced Scouters would destroy the troop.2) the SM and his ASM heir apparent both have daughters and both want them in Scouts BSA. SM realizes what would happen with 50% loss and is in agreement with a separate girls' troop. The ASM however is ticked at the decision. He wants "linked troops," or as he calls it a coed troop, so that his daughter can be both an Eagle Scout and Gold Award recipient. He doesn't care if 1/2 the troop quits as a result. And he has already worked out a way to allow girls to camp without female Scouters: since the troop is "family friendly," if dad goes the girl can go since it is "family camping." But I see the writing on the wall regarding national .I am on several Scouting related Facebook groups. @gblotter is correct in that volunteers who bring up valid concerns about Family Scouting are being bullied and labeled. People do not want to recognize there are difference between boys and girls, everyone must be equal. And concerns that Scouts have are ignored. Folks are saying that they are only stating what they hear at home, or they are not getting accurate information on the changes, they need to go to XYZ website to get the correct information and see the charts. Sadly they don't believe that Scouts can think for themselves. They don't realize that they may have actually read the official documents, but either hypothesize the reality that will occur, or actually base their decisions on what they see is actually happening on the Cub level and how packs and dens are ignoring guidelines and rules to get girls in Cub Scouts. Don't believe they have seen what some councils are doing to give girls a head start: using Explorer Clubs for the 11- 13 year olds and Explorer Posts and Venturing Crews for the 14-16 year olds. https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2018/08/historic_oregon_boy_scout_camp.html

I have had to explain some G2SS rules to parents and Cubs. Some think it is a joke. Other roll their eyes.

Been that way for a while. One of the reasons I quit. I was part of a pilot program for National Supply, and my boss has 0 experience as a youth i the program. EVERTHING I proposed was questioned, "discussed," and reviewed. I was bad.

No additional guidance. 1) No one sees a problem with the double standard, i.e 2 women with boys is OK but not 2 men with girls. 2) According to G2SS, yes one of the 2 registered Scouters must be female since it is a Scouting function. Patrols can no longer do day activities without adults. 3) Good question. Some of the things now considered abuse, would get laughed at by authorities in my day, heck I think even police would be laughing at being called in to arrest someone for name calling.

IMHO a good Den Chief is worth their weight in gold. In fact I think they are more important than the SPL. DCs can mold and inspire Cubs. They are a natural recruiting tool. Sadly I've seen troops go uner because the Den Chiefs they provided were not up to the job. Scouts did not want to go to that troop. SM and SPLs I had as a Scout had a similar idea. "Just because you no longer wear the green bars, doesn't mean you are not a leader."

If you are Catholic, talk to your priest. If you are not, talk to your minister. Growing up this was not a problem. Usually we got home in time for me to take a nap and attend 5:00 Mass. If I over slept, I could go to a neighboring parish's later Masses. That was New Orleans. Heavily Catholic. Now I am in an area where being Catholic will cause people to look at you crossed eyed at best, cursed out at worst. Next parish is approx 40 minutes away, and I do not think the Mass is offered anywhere in the evenings in my diocese. So I had a chat with my priest about it. I recommend you do the same.

Simple, they do not earn the Den Chief Service Award. DCSA requires more than just showing up and meeting with the den. Requirements are here: http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/denchief.asp Serve the pack faithfully for 1 full year. Complete online Den Chief Training (or in person conducted by the council or district). Know and understand the purposes of Cub Scouting. Help Cub Scouts achieve the purposes of Cub Scouting. Be the activities assistant in den meetings. (lead five songs, five stunts or skits, five games, five sports activities) Set a good example by attitude and uniforming.(for a minimum of six months) Be a friend to the boys in the den. Take part in weekly meetings. (for a minimum of six months) Assist the den at the monthly pack program.(at least three times) Meet as needed with the adult members of the den, pack, troop, team, or crew. Complete FOUR of these projects: Serve as a staff member of a special Cub Scouting event, such as a Scouting show, bicycle rodeo, etc. Serve as a staff member of a Cub Scout day camp or resident camp. Advance one rank. Assist in recruiting three new Cub Scouts. Assist three Cub Scouts to become Webelos Scouts. Assist three Webelos Scouts to join a troop. Help to plan and carry out a joint pack-troop activity. Recommend to your Scoutmaster, Skipper, or Venturing Adviser another Boy Scout, Sea Scout, or Venturer to be a den chief. The information in MAROON is not in the requirements as listed in Boy Scout Requirements, but is in the details in the Den Chief Handbo

Sadly been that way for a little while. When I was a DE, one of my coworkers had his entire district advancement committee quit in protest. They denied a Scout Eagle, wrote up a plan for him to rectify the deficiencies, etc. He had plenty of time since he was 13 or 14 years olds. Grandfather (SM) Dad ( ASM) and Mom (COR/CC), blew a gasket and appealed to council. Council held up the decision, and it moved to national National rescinded the decision and gave him Eagle. I met the kid in question a few months later. From my conversation with him, I can see why he didn't receive Eagle initially. He could not tell me anything about any of his MBs. Another Eagle I know so screwed up his service project the benefiting organization, which had a long history of working with a BSA, kicked him off the property mid project, and has banned the Scouts from ever doing projects there again! The project was scheduled to be completed days before his 18th birthday. Long story short, mom threatened to sue the council over the matter, and they caved in. Sad thing is he never learned personal responsibility. I see his post of FB and he is always blaming someone else for his problems threatening legal action at times.

I am dealing with a Scout in a Similar situation. He has exactly 12 months 2 weeks to earn both Life and Eagle. He knew about this all along. And has had multiple opportunities to advance. He knows it is HIS RESPONSIBILITY to meet the requirements and deadlines, not the adults.

Not only as a former lifeguard and lifeguard instructor, but also as a drowning survivor, I AM APPALLED BY THE WAY THIS TROOP IS HANDLING THE SITUATION! I drowned as a kid and had was resuscitated. I was terrified of swimming for years after that. Scouting is what forced me to face my fears, and overcome them. I was 12 years old before I was finally able to pass a swim test and earn First Class. And I am so glad I did. Not only was I able to advance, I was able to do some great adventures. All three of my 50 milers have been afloat, either canoe or sailboat. I developed a love of the water that led me to get a job as a lifeguard and eventually instructor. And I find it insulting to those who follow the requirements to the letter. Forget me for a moment. I had a scout who mastered basic Scouting skills while a Webelos. This guy had a shelter built, fire going, and chilling out cooking his lunch before I even had my shelter 1/2 way completed when working on Castaway. I would take him anywhere except for one thing; he could not swim. He has been in the troop 20 months, and has been Tenderfoot for 17 of those months. He's taken Instructional Swim the past two summer at camp, and I just completed 3 weeks of working with him. He finally passed Beginner test and earned Second Class last month. He just passed the Swimmer test last week, and is now ready for a First Class BOR. Once he passes that, it's 4 months in a POR for Star. As other stated, Swimming is a life skill, and an extremely important one. Sadly, you are correct. BSA has removed the term "Master the skill...." that was in previous handbooks, guides, and training literature that many of us old fogeys grew up under and were first Scouters under. They also removed the replacement phrase, 'The badge represents what a Scout can do, not what he has done." from guides and training materials.

UPDATE: Guideline has been rescinded. BB Guns memo from A. Lambert 8-11-18.pdf Text is following August 11, 2018 Colleagues, It has come to our attention that a recent program change is causing some distress in the field. You are aware that this past May, a joint group of well-meaning volunteers and professionals recommended a change to the age-appropriate guidelines for shooting sports related to Tigers in Cub Scouts. Prior to this change, the use of BB guns was approved for use by councils or districts at their discretion, starting with Tigers. The change shifted the guidelines to allow the use of BB guns to begin with the Wolves and Bears. While we appreciate the spirit that brought this team to their recommendation, we are withdrawing the change effective immediately. The safe use of BB guns will remain at the discretion of the Council and for use in council and district program for Tigers, Wolves, Bears and Webelos. We encourage Councils to work with parents, staff, partners and Scouts to ensure that these programs are safe for our Scouts and that they have the necessary help and support to make our shooting sports programs successful and fun. You’ll see further information in next week’s Scout Executive packet. Please let me know if you have any questions. The program teams at the National Service Center stand ready to help. Al Lambert Assistant Chief Scout Executive National Director of Outdoor Adventures Boy Scouts of America

Clueless is am understatement. 16 for Venturing? 10 months to earn Eagle? Segregated patrols instead of troops (oops I forgot "Linked Troops"). And if members were so for it, WHY DON'T THEY PUBLISH THE ACTUAL TOWN HALL MEMBERSHIP SURVEY RESULTS? (emphasis)

That's the funny thing, IT IS NOT STATED IN THE G2SS! (emphasis, not shouting). Check the online version and the pdf version. It is not there. Only the Age Appropriate Guidelines document has this rule. And for whatever reason, that document can only be found on the shooting sports page of the BSA Website.

FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL! May want lawyers involved. As I stated once blacklisted, permanently blacklisted, even if proven innocent later. EDITED: Demand a copy of everything the council on why to blacklist and what they are doing to get him blacklisted. And Definitely get a lawyer PRIOR to the name's submission. Once on the black list, it will be 100 times harder to get off of it. In fact I know of only 1 case where the person blacklisted was reinstated. Case involved SM in a bar with a uniform on a scout trip. Long story short, bar was the closest place with a phone to call EMS that involved an accident he Scouts were doing first aid on. Took 9+ months to get reinstated if memory serves.

Don't count on them being allowed to return if proven innocent. We had one very active Scouter who was removed based upon an accusation. Criminal investigation cleared her but she was not allowed to be reinstated. She was extremely active on the district and council level.

He's out of the country at the moment. Someone on FB posted a letter from their council stating that it is a mistake and an updated form will be coming shortly. I think it is also the same person who posted the toll free number to national to tell them how you feel about the new rule.

Interesting! Wonder when that changed because we had one guy in my Ship who was working on both Eagle and Quartermaster. Policy then was no double dipping. But that was 20+ years ago. Specialist would cover it. It was a catch all POR with folks focusing on special skills or assignments. I was a specialist for my ship, focusing on drill and naval customs. But event chair could fall under assigned leadership project for Star and Life.

Program has already changed. After October 1, 2018 the patrol method will be replaced with the den method. If that is not a reversal, I do not know what is. 18- 20 year old SCOUTERS (emphasis) will no longer county towards Youth Protection requirements. IMO that is a reversal. We spend 7 years to "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" then when they become adults, say sorry, we don't trust ya. Heck National no longer trusts them, as seen by the Den Method removing the last bit of INDEPENDENT Patrols ( again emphasis). Forgot to add, Tigers can no longer do BB Guns. That is a reversal of policy.

If memory serves, just no 'double dippin" i.e. using the same POR for both Boy Scout and Sea Scout rank advancement, service project counts towards one rank or the other, etc. Glad he found his happy place and good luck and fair winds to him. Not only do I hope he earns Eagle, but Quartermaster as well.

No DE to night. But I went searching online. Daisy model 1938 is what we use for some of the rifles. We never have trouble with Tigers shooting because an adult partner is suppose to be with them at all times. I have always seen Tiger partners with their Tigers, and accompanied my sons when they were Tigers to shoot. Whenever I ran a course with Tigers, I always had their adult partner helping them. Only time I ever had trouble was with twins. We had to have them shoot one at a time, and not together.

But it is not listed on the online version, which according to the print versions IS the most current version.Nor is it listed in the online PDF. I will talk to my DE tonight, if he shows up to RT, and get the info today. THIS https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/multigun.pdf Accoding to the manual, you need council approval to do the activity. But according to the new guidlines you do not.

No typo. Shooting Sports Awards book was not updated when this policy came out. It is now in the process of being updated. On a different note, it appears that troops, ships, and crews will no longer need council approval for the Multigun Airsoft Expereince. It is no longer showing it is no longer showing that approval is needed with the new guidelines.

Pack will be accepting girls. CO is trying for form a separate, non-linked troop for the girls. This is actually falling upon the Scouters who have daughters though. Troop took a poll on the topic and while accepting that girls will be in Scouting, they do not want to be a "linked" troop. If we become a "linked" troop, aka coed troop, over 50% of the Scouts will transfer or quit.